Kineticist - Durations of Utility Wild Talents and Lack of Abilities for Earth Element


Rules Questions


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I built a Kineticist for the playtest and haven't played it since because it required a rebuild and the Kineticist class has so many confusing rules and omissions that I just didn't have the impetus to be bothered with it for almost 2 years. Let me also say that I play mostly through PFS and so table rules vary widely by GM and only with a non-ambiguous FAQ or errata can I be certain that any of these abilities will be allowed to work as intended.

Anyway, I recently picked up my book and started the rebuild but I noticed 2 glaring issues aside from the tight constraints on the class that just made me want to make another sorcerer. But that's a different discussion. There was also one potential synergy that should work, but since it's from material that predates Occult Adventures, it doesn't call out Kineticist specifically.

1. All the entries for talents are missing vital information. They are supposed to be spell-like but none of the usual information that is provided for spells are provided for talents. This is especially a problem for the utility talents because the lack of duration information is a glaring omission. How long does Earth Walk or Aerial Adaptation last? While it seems that both of these become a class ability and never need to be activated, I know GMs that will argue that all talents are spell-like abilities that require a standard action to use and since no duration is stated it has to be reactivated each round like a blast. Enough of them include words like "constantly", but that only indicates that the ones that are missing such specific wording are not always in effect. Big area for errata here since almost every utility talent is missing duration. Another problem are the ones that say "similar to" and reference a spell. Just how similar. Duration? Target? Range? Casting time? No clue. This needs to be addressed.

2. I decided I wanted to make a Geokineticist. It was a hard decision, but I liked the defensive talent and it seemed a little more versatile in that it wouldn't be shut down by a single elemental resistance or immunity, although things like alignment DR would always be a problem. After I got into it, I realized the selection of Earth talents was less in shear number than any other element. All of them are highly restricted in usefulness and the addition of form and substance infusions add things like save negates and other "benefits" that make them completely undesirable because of the high burn cost . The utility talents at least offer other abilities, but they are not very equitably distributed between the elements either. Water tops the list at 18, followed closely by Aether and Air at 17 talents. Fire and Earth limp along with 14 and 13 respectively, which isn't enough to even give a choice at most levels unless it's to fall back to a lower level ability or to select one of the 8 Universal utility talents that are available. More talents and more evenly distributed talents are required or maybe just more that apply to all elements.

3. I also have a question about the Dwarven ability "Stonesinger" (exact text copied below). It says it works with earth bloodlines, mysteries, domains, but does not list the Kineticist's Elemental Focus. Although the rest of the wording indicates that it should since it specifically calls out spells with the "earth" descriptor which all wild talents get based on an Elemental Focus of Earth. But again it's a gray area that can't be counted on to be accepted in PFS play without a clarification.

Stonesinger: Some dwarves' affinity for the earth grants them greater powers. Dwarves with this racial trait are treated as one level higher when casting spells with the earth descriptor or using granted powers of the Earth domain, the bloodline powers of the deep earth bloodline or earth elemental bloodline, and revelations of the oracle's stone mystery. This ability does not give them early access to level-based powers; it only affects the powers they could use without this ability. This racial trait replaces stonecunning.

If you would flag this post for FAQ, I would really appreciate it.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

1) Many of the wild talents that don't list a duration do so because there is no duration; it just keeps going and going and going...

2) You may want to consider generic utility wild talents that any element can take to make up for the slack.

3) Stonesinger as written does nothing for an earth kineticist.


1) They are permanent, but can be dispelled, then it's just another action to start it up again.

2) None of the elements really get a lot of options.

3) nope, doesn't say kineticist so doesn't effect kineticist.

Silver Crusade

1. Spell-like ability is used in an odd way with this class, there was threads about what a spell-like ability is, and it basically fell on that it's more about how other things interact with the ability rather than actually emulating a spell.

2. Yeah, there's just not a lot of talents yet. Really, it feels like you're meant to expand your element for everything (Even though metal blast is awesome) to have a wide enough range of talents to select, as following a straight progression for your advancement is going to lead you into a very preset selection of talents. Hopefully we'll get some more talents, but I at least think earth's talents are the most universal aside from aether, which is really nothing if not versatile.

3. Yep, won't affect it, no errata has come along to change that.

I've written a guide for the class in case you're looking for ways to advance your character, since it's PFS just make sure to skip past all the 3P stuff, the links in there should make that pretty easy.

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