Spell description says : "Roll only once [attack roll + CMB] for the entire spell effect and apply the result to all creatures in the area of effect". But the Grapple action usually requires a successful grapple check each round to maintain the hold. Since the DC of a grappling check is static (15 + target's CMB), a character victim of a Black Tentacles' initial grapple check is automatically held the subsequent rounds. Why mention then that the "black tentacles spell receive a +5 bonus on grapple checks made against opponents it is already grappling" ?
Our party's sorceress Alira was grappled in the initial round by our foe's Black Tentacles -- DM's check beat DC to grapple Alira which was 20 (15+5 BAB+ 0 STR). Since DM rolled "only once for entire spell effect", there was no need to re-roll at +5 --- grappling Alira was automatic! And if she wanted to break the grapple, she needed to make a successful combat maneuver check at DC 15+ tentacles' CMB (15) = DC 30 !
Considering her own CMB is only 5 (BAB + STR), not much she could do.
Am I understanding the spell correctly? Why the +5 bonus if a single roll is used?
As a related clarification question, PF rules say that performing a Combat Maneuver requires an attack roll, adding the character's CMB to the result. Since the character's BAB is already included in the CMB, is the attack roll in performing a combat maneuver simply a d20 roll or is it a normal attack roll (with all usual bonuses including BAB) + CMB ???
Also, could someone help a character break free of a grapple? In the exemple above, could our fighter have helped Alira break free of the tentacles' grasp ?
I would appreciate some clarifications. Thanks!
Here's your retort quote:
"Each round that black tentacles succeeds on a grapple check, it deals an additional 1d6+4 points of damage."
No check no damage your sorcereress just can't move.
Grease, and freedom of movement are great ways to get out of this sort of jam and grease is short ranged meaning that if you have another arcane spell chucker with the spell he can grease her up without getting near the tentacles himself.
In other words, if you don't try to break the grapple, no more checks are made and no more damage is done. If you try to grapple back and fail, the tentacles damage you.
I've always considered indestructible manifestations to be overmuch. The 5th level Interposing Hand and higher level related spells aren't indestructible.
Make tentacles destructible with something like 10 hp, take 1 hp/die from energy attacks, but then regrow in the following round.
Well they can be dispelled, but I don't think giving them caster level * 2 HP and an AC 15 + casting stat Mod would be a bad thing. It would certainly look impressive to see a fighter trying to hack his way through tentacles to get to the other character to save them.
Again this is an example of why still spell is good...
and why the universialists metamagic mastery is so broken. Take still and silent spell, when you are grappled it isn't a problem and if a silence spell comes at you silent spell and you are still good.
In other words, if you don't try to break the grapple, no more checks are made and no more damage is done. If you try to grapple back and fail, the tentacles damage you.
But that's not what the spell description says. "Every creature within the area of the spell is the target of a combat maneuver check made to grapple EACH ROUND [...] If the tentacles succeed in grappling a foe, that foe takes 1d6+4 points of damage and gains the grappled condition. [...] Each round the black tentacles succeeds on a grapple check ["you must continue to make a check each round to maintain the hold"-- Grapple p. 150], it deal an additional 1d6+4 points of damage" (PF Beta p. 204).
In other words, the black tentacles try to grapple [and damage] the target each round, but they use the results of the first roll "for the entire spell effect". So if they succeed in grappling a character with the first roll, there is no reason why the grapple check would fail the following rounds...
... unless-- somehow-- the target's CMB changes for some reason, thus increasing the DC to perform the grapple maneuver. That's a partial answer, I guess.
The confusion could be avoided by removing the "Roll only once for the entire spell effect and apply the result to all creatures in the area of effect" from the spell description. Or if the description was changed to : "Roll a single combat maneuver check each round, applying the result to all creatures in the area of effect".
Hope this makes sense.
In our gaming situation, our sorceress Alira managed to cast some spells with the Still Spell feat, but she almost died of the recurring grappling damage.
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Or if the description was changed to : "Roll a single combat maneuver check each round, applying the result to all creatures in the area of effect".
I think this is the correct interpretation of the text.
The tentacles make one roll each round (regardless of how many creatures they are grappling), not one roll per casting.
Or if the description was changed to : "Roll a single combat maneuver check each round, applying the result to all creatures in the area of effect".I think this is the correct interpretation of the text.
The tentacles make one roll each round (regardless of how many creatures they are grappling), not one roll per casting.
I agree with this interpretation, making the spell rely on a single roll could be utterly devastating in some cases with a roll of 20.
Or if the description was changed to : "Roll a single combat maneuver check each round, applying the result to all creatures in the area of effect".I think this is the correct interpretation of the text.
The tentacles make one roll each round (regardless of how many creatures they are grappling), not one roll per casting.
That was my interpretation, also.
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Here's your retort quote:
"Each round that black tentacles succeeds on a grapple check, it deals an additional 1d6+4 points of damage."
No check no damage your sorcereress just can't move.
Grease, and freedom of movement are great ways to get out of this sort of jam and grease is short ranged meaning that if you have another arcane spell chucker with the spell he can grease her up without getting near the tentacles himself.
Tentacles and grease, sounds like a bad anime. ;p
Tentacles and grease, sounds like a bad anime. ;pHere's your retort quote:
"Each round that black tentacles succeeds on a grapple check, it deals an additional 1d6+4 points of damage."
No check no damage your sorcereress just can't move.
Grease, and freedom of movement are great ways to get out of this sort of jam and grease is short ranged meaning that if you have another arcane spell chucker with the spell he can grease her up without getting near the tentacles himself.
Or a good one >:D
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Just a note... in 3.5 if you escaped the tentacles you could move at half speed through the area but were otherwise free from being grappled for the duration of the spell unless you left and re-entered.
It seems this has changed in the PF version. Any reason why? I think the spell is far more powerful than say Solid Fog (same level spell) in that it could continuously do damage for as long as you remain in the area.
Black Tentacles does a bit of damage (until you escape)and slows you to 1/2 speed.
Solid Fog does no damage, but slows your speed to 5 feet.