Once per limb. In this case, your limb is your head.
How many heads does he have?
I confirm Cheapy. Along the same rule line you cannot claw with a hand that is used to wield a weapon.
Twice. Once with any of the four options you listed, once with a haste attack.
Once per limb is correct. Also, each of those options give you the ability to make a natural Bite attack. Once you have the ability, stacking it on again does nothing (except in some cases make the bite more powerful).
Bestiary, universal monster rules chapter I believe.
In the basic rules that apply to every one, only base attack can grant repeats of the same attack. Thee apply to attacks that appear on the weapon list, which included unarmed strikes. Natural attacks follow separate rules, and are not allowed repeat use with the same action the way that weapons are, barring instances that would be specifically mentioned.
Actually, the limb is his face, because you can make a bite and a gore attack in the same round.Once per limb. In this case, your limb is your head.
How many heads does he have?
Well, if you want to be specific, there are creatures with more than one gore so I guess that ones attached to the horn(by the set). Bites are attached to the mouth, because there are creatures with one head but multiple mouths and bites. Mind you orcs have one mouth outside of DM fiat...
Well, if you want to be specific, there are creatures with more than one gore so I guess that ones attached to the horn(by the set). Bites are attached to the mouth, because there are creatures with one head but multiple mouths and bites. Mind you orcs have one mouth outside of DM fiat...Actually, the limb is his face, because you can make a bite and a gore attack in the same round.Once per limb. In this case, your limb is your head.
How many heads does he have?
He might be half orc, half xenomorph.
He might be half orc, half xenomorph.
Only 2 bites there, he might want to grow a few more tongues in that case.
Actually, the limb is his face, because you can make a bite and a gore attack in the same round.Once per limb. In this case, your limb is your head.
How many heads does he have?
Actually...
Which is weird because the 3.5 was all about making monsters more like players wasn't it? Whatevs' I guess.
You could also take a level of monk to get flurry of blows then take the feat Feral Combat Training.
This allows you to flurry of bite =)
My wife is working on having her Dhampir rogue build up to this, lol.
Thats an example of a specific exception.
The limitations for 1 attack per limb per full attack action for natural attacks/weapons are in two places:
Core Rulebook, Combat chapter, Natural Attacks
and
Bestiary I, Universal Monster Rules
You are limited to one bite attack, because you only have one head. Face is NOT a limb. Head is.
Limb = any protrusion from the torso. i.e., head, arm, leg, tail, etc...
The creatures with both gore AND bite are exceptions to the rule. A player character is not.
You cannot "Flurry of Bite" unless you have multiple heads, or at least multiple mouths and a grapple attack. Like a gibbering mouther.
Specific exception,yes. It works though.
I didn't think he was getting much help with all the recommendations of building a multi-headed/tongued hydra barbarian xenomorph, lol.
I actually laughed out loud when Cheapy asked how many heads his character had =D
Tanuki have a special limb...
So did I, because of both it's relevance and it's inherent snarkiness.
I might have to create an Ettin/Thri-Kreen hybrid race just to do silly things like this.
But, BOY will he (it?) be ugly...
You cannot "Flurry of Bite" unless you have multiple heads, or at least multiple mouths and a grapple attack. Like a gibbering mouther.
You are incorrect, sir.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/feral-combat-training-combat
Please check out this link.
My wife is working on having her Dhampir rogue build up to this, lol.You might have to break the bad news to her, but the Dhampir's bite attack is limited to foes it is grappling or who are helpless. It is not useable otherwise.
She took the Final Embrace trait and something else, all playing up to that kind of attack. She spent a good part of the evening looking for ways to make flurry of biting sneak attacks...god help us.
Feral Combat Training (Bite)does not let you use Bite attack multiple times in a round. It allows you to use your one bite attack within your normal Flurry of Blows routine. So you could do punch/punch/kick/kick/bite. Not bite/bite/bite/bite/bite.
If you had FCT (Claws), you could do claw/claw/kick/kick instead of punch/punch/kick/kick.
Read the feat again, and then re-read the rules on Natural Attacks and Natural Weapons. This does NOT work the way you think it does.
(unless you are her DM and have approved it)
Feral Combat Training does not let you use Bite attack multiple times in a round. It allows you to use your one bite attack within your normal Flurry of Blows routine. So you could do punch/punch/kick/kick/bite. Not bite/bite/bite/bite/bite.
Read the feat again, and then re-read the rules on Natural Attacks and Natural Weapons. This does NOT work the way you think it does.
(unless you are her DM and have approved it)
"The feat does not allow you to make your normal flurry of blows attack sequence plus one or more natural attacks with the natural weapon. In other words, if you can flurry for four attacks per round, with this feat you still only make four attacks per round... but any number of those attacks may be with the selected natural weapon."
....but any number of those attacks may be with the selected natural weapon.
I would say it works exactly as I think it works. What are you reading, I would like to look at that.
Right. FCT is a feat that requires a closer read. Another one is Sacred Summons.
The more you know!
I am reading the Pathfinder PRD description of Feral Combat Training. The PFSRD is NOT official material. And often has errors and omissions. So the real question is, what are YOU reading?
You were taught a style of martial arts that relies on the natural weapons from your racial ability or class feature.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus with selected natural weapon.
Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.
Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.
The text of the feat is identical between both sites.
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Feral Combat Training (Combat)
You were taught a style of martial arts that relies on the natural weapons from your racial ability or class feature.
Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus with selected natural weapon.
Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.
Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.
Barry,
It's right here. How are you not seeing it?
"The feat does not allow you to make your normal flurry of blows attack sequence plus one or more natural attacks with the natural weapon. In other words, if you can flurry for four attacks per round, with this feat you still only make four attacks per round... but any number of those attacks may be with the selected natural weapon.
—Sean K Reynolds, 02/15/12 Back to Top"
Look at the last sentence.
Isn't the ability to delete posts nice? :)
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Hmm, after some research in the actual, official FAQ's, I found it. It seems I stand corrected. Bite Flurry away.
My personal opinion is that this would be an awesome character. I just didn't think that was the way it read. But if it's been FAQ'd, then I stand down.
Sorry, but I hate people that just throw the PFSRD around as official source documents. It's not.
Isn't the ability to delete posts nice? :)
Indeed, for when I have to correct myself. Foot in mouth already achieved, no need for me to sink my other in quicksand. :D
It's not, but if there are clarifications to abilities in FAQs and such, it'll list them to help people out who may not even know about the FAQ.
The PRD doesn't have that information easily available, and it sometimes isn't even correct. I know I've seen at least a dozen mistakes in the PRD. The absolute correct source to refer to is the latest printing of the CRB, but we're all lazy smurfs who would rather just search the internet :)
Well, to be fair, Feral Combat Training is in the dreaded Ultimate Combat, not the CRB. *shudder*
Barry hates me =(
I love him =)
I hate no one. I just get very, VERY passionate about Rules Questions and RAW vs. RAI. Ask Cheapy. He often keeps me on my toes.
Especially natural attacks, these days. Seems to be a hot topic.
I love your face. But not your wife's dhampyr's face. It's rather bitey.
I'm not above admitting I was wrong. And in this case I was.
Hey, you, Barbarian at the top of the post! YOU can still only bite once per turn. :D
If you scroll up, the post I linked to was in response to someone trying to justify bite+gore on one head by using a monster. The limb is the head :-)
Yes, for monsters. Monsters break many rules though. Vermin with feats is one example. Gore+bite is another. I also meant scrolling up in the link, not this thread.
Now for the next cheesy question. Assuming that Bite and Gore are both allowed on the same head with the reasoning that this is due to mouth and horns being different body parts, and that you get natural attacks for each body part that provides an attack, Can you obtain two gore attacks by using the horns from Lesser Fiend Totem and the Tusks from Helm of the Mammoth Lord as they are "different body parts"
Natural Attacks: Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet). These attacks are made using your full attack bonus and deal an amount of damage that depends on their type (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks). If you possess only one natural attack (such as a bite—two claw attacks do not qualify), you add 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls made with that attack.
Emphasis is mine. It could possibly be argued that since it specifies body parts, and not exclusively limbs, you can make natural attacks with every part of your body that is capable of making said attack, which would mean that since bite and gore are legal together, bite and two gores could be legal using the above method.
Part of me thinks this is legal, specifically the part reads "limb and body parts" to mean every component of your body that can attack, and the part that wants to see somebody with four bony protrusions in their head headbutting someone.
Part of me thinks this is illegal, specifically the part that thinks that "limb and body parts" was just added in to remove doubt and debate over whether or not heads, tentacles and tails counted as limbs, and prevent people from forbidding attack rotations like claw, claw, bite, tail when it can be legally obtained.
I'd love to see this clarified or FAQ'd, but until it is or in case it is not, I'm going to suggest falling back on the old standby of interpreting the rules in the most restrictive possible interpretation for the purpose of legality.
You could, but every natural attack would be at a -5 because you are using a manufactured weapon. Or am I confusing the helm with the Dwarven Boulder Helm?
Helm of the Mammoth Lord grants a natural gore attack, which would be primary if used with an all natural attack rotation, and secondary if used in conjunction with manufactured weapons. So I think you may be confusing it with something else.
The helm of the mammoth lord also protects the wearer from cold environments as the endure elements spell. Furthermore, it provides a +5 competence bonus to Handle Animal, Ride, and wild empathy checks with elephants, mammoths, mastodons, and other similar elephant-like creatures.
On command, the wearer may use detect animals or plants, but can only detect elephant-like creatures. On command, the wearer may use speak with animals, but only to communicate with elephant-like creatures.
Indeed, I too, have to redact my stance on bite + gore in the same round due to Angry Wiggles' clarification.
Natural attacks aren't just one per limb. If you now have an additional body part that qualfies to make a separate attack, you can.
Lesser Fiend Totem specifically calls out that you grow a set of horns. Which I would qualify as a body part now capable of making a gore attack separately from your teeth/jaws/tusks doing the bite.
So, bite + gore away, no matter how cheesy it is.
I think I am now up to 7 attacks per round with my Ultimate Dragon Disciple concept.
Claw/Claw/Bite/Tail/Wing/Wing/Gore.
Now I just have to figure out how to get my back legs involved. The obvious answer is unarmed kicks, but that doesn't speak flavor to me.
Is there a way to get talons on a PC (other than a reskinned claw)?
As far as the Helm of the Mammoth Lord, I noticed a semantic discrepancy that may or may not be intentional:
It doesn't say the gore attack is a natural weapon. It also doesn't say the helm makes YOU grow these tusks. It specifically says the helm has them. To me, this seems to be a manufactured weapon that emulates a natural weapon, not a natural weapon itself. It even confirms its status as a Magic Weapon (although Natural weapons can gain that status too).
This item I would disqualify as being able to combine a bite and gore attack, because your teeth or tusks are physically blocked by the helm's tusks.
*opens up can of worms and grabs popcorn to watch the aftermath*