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In a 6 second combat round the amount of time necessary for readying or loosing a Tower Shield is negligible when compared to the other shields.
Granted the Tower Shield is larger and bulkier, but its mechanism for holding it is essentially the same.
It would be like having different rules for readying or loosing a two handed sword vs a dagger.
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In a 6 second combat round the amount of time necessary for readying or loosing a Tower Shield is negligible when compared to the other shields.
Granted the Tower Shield is larger and bulkier, but its mechanism for holding it is essentially the same.
It would be like having different rules for readying or loosing a two handed sword vs a dagger.
I'm no expert on shields, but I've always imagined a tower shield being more strapped on than simply held. Maybe it's just my mis-perception.
One example of a Tower(type) shield: Assyrian Sapper
I could see them being strapped down something like a hoplite's argive shield As long as he has some kind of quick release to let that beast drop in an emergency.
A miner's shield could be fixed to the ground with spikes.. And I could even imagine in extreme cases a long row of such great shields being pinned together and then spiked into the ground to create something like a Wall. That would be bananas.
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I'm no expert on shields, but I've always imagined a tower shield being more strapped on than simply held. Maybe it's just my mis-perception.In a 6 second combat round the amount of time necessary for readying or loosing a Tower Shield is negligible when compared to the other shields.
Granted the Tower Shield is larger and bulkier, but its mechanism for holding it is essentially the same.
It would be like having different rules for readying or loosing a two handed sword vs a dagger.
All shields were strapped on to some degree. Two leather pieces that the arm fits through. The first one fits very securely, the seconds is tight around the fist. You can tighten them for a Tower Shield, but if you are taking them off I still don't see how that is going to take substantially more time.
And the Assyrian Tower Shield... whoa... that is more like fortifications than a shield! Tower Shields are more like what the Romans used for their Turtle formation. Very tall and wide, but not THAT darn tall. That was wicked.
By the way, just imagine the upper body strength of those old soldiers to hold those Tower Shields, press forward in combat, and still thrust with a weapon, blindly.
Those roman shields were actually of the central handgrip type. Laminated wooden strips. Sometimes baked to toughen them. The construction was relativly thin but beyond exceptional with cross grained strips rather like plywood. Had to be. They fought the best armies the world had to offer.
Personally I consider them to be large wooden shields in D&D terms but opinions vary.
Most "common" shields had a semi loose strap that the fore arm passed through and then a strap or handle for your hand to grasp.
The "common" buckler was actually strapped firmly to ones forearm in order to leave the hand free for other purposes and was commonly used by bowmen (so would actually take more time to ready/loose, although it is a moot point because there is no real reason to loose it, nor it there a reason to not have it "readied" when you put your armor on in the morning)
There is another kind of "buckler" used by roman gladiators that did not sit on the forearm but was actually a strap on the wrist and held with a handle like larger shield variants. Gladiators used it as a blunt weapon as well often punching with it as much as blocking with it.
I have always pictured Dnd bucklers as being of the first type (for spell casters and archers they seem to make sense)
But I recently made a barbarian who fights with a punch dagger, and a spiked buckler who has TWF feats and improved shield bash and now I picture the buckler more like the gladiator type.
All normal shields have pretty much been as easy to ready or loose as any weapon.
The tower shield really isnt an exception.
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I tend to imagine tower shields as being more like pavises or the really, really old Mycenaean tower shields. The roman shields, while providing a great deal of cover, weren't the ankle-to-neck affairs that were used by these other two types of soldiers, and were certainly a little more mobile. They're a little larger than what we usually think of as a large shield, but not much.
If you were to add to the time it takes to loose a tower shield, like making it a move action or a full round action, it would completely neuter the shield. Although the tower shield gives you a shield bonus it also gives you bonus AC against ranged attacks or even offers concealment when set. As just stated, the shield has to be set for some of these abilities to work, which takes time.
To further add more time to loose a shield would make the shield useless in combat due to the time it takes to loose it and to set it.
Furthermore, the shield already has checks and balances built into it:
1. Most PC's have to take a feat in it's use because it is considered an exotic weapon.
2. Requires a standard action I believe to set the shield so you can get concealment or a bonus to AC versus ranged attacks.
3. Big and bulky, weighs 15 pounds, which adds to encumbrance. Shouldn't be a problem for fighters with high strength, however, proves to be a logistics problem for classes other than fighters.
So, to add time to the loosing of the shield would absolutely kill the shield. It would just be easier to carry a medium shield.
The tower shield is basically, just not a fantasy setting shield.
The fanatasy combatant is envisioned as fluid and mobile, a man or woman of action.
The Tower shield, although they have mechanical game advantages is better used (IMO) as an NPC item, used in en masse by a specialized group of soldiers (hoplite types) in a battle or small unti setting.
PC fighters are trained in their use, simply as part of their combat training, as of course their intent is to be the wartime elite on the battlefield (the equivalent of Hoplite, knight,shieldman for the king whatever.)
As such, the towershield should just remain as it is, a nice touch for specific instances, but not really used by the players in general.
The Buckler is a small handheld shield. It isn't strapped on at all.'
A link:
swordacademy
Note the shields in the background of some of the pictures: Those are light shields. The ones the guys are using are bucklers.
Again, I'll say just because you saw it on the internet,doesnt mean it is true, correct, or the only version of the truth.
Bowmen used bucklers in the middle ages. The bukcler was strapped to the forearm and not held by a hand, because the hand needed to be free to draw and fire the bow.
The bowmen were outfitted with short swords "in case" they were flanked by hobliars (horse skimishers) and needed to drop bows anddefend themselves in hand to hand. The buckler was already there, as it was strapped to the forearm. the sword could be quickly draw with the bow simply dropped.
These are things you learn in College, when studying history.
Also the description of the buckler, history and use re also mentioned in unearthed arcana where you see this item for the first time in use in AD&D, and its description is pretty similar to my own. ie. the shield hand could be used as it was not required to hold the buckler itself.
While I am not saying the hand held buckler is not real (as i mentioned in a previous post roman gladiators had one) the strapped to the forearm buckler is very real as well.
Scottish highlanders in the 17th and 18th centuries also used a handheld buckler with a spike on it called a dirge.
They fought with cutlass like rapier they called a claymore (scot for claymore pretty much just means sword) but we all think of claymore in the english sense which is a bastard/hand and a half sword.
The combination of the dirge and claymore were specifically useful fighting the english troops in the confines of the mountain passes, who used pikes as a primary weapon. The dirge was used to first block, and then pin the pike against rock or mountain, and then the scot slid in range keeping the pike pinned with the dirge, and cut the brit soldier down with the claymore.
Scots were less effective with this combat technique with the advent of the flintlock muskets and rifles the english became out fitted with in later battles for domination of the island.
Although the scots still used the dirge and claymore for blocking and pinning the bayonetted muskets and rifles of the brits, the rifle/bayonet combination was shorter and more easily loosed from the dirge pin, and th brit soldiers often backed up and pulled their rifle free as the scot advanced.
(after all the brits had a hundred or more years of watching scots fight, who did not change their tactics)
Also the dirge did not (of course) block bullets.
The scot highland warrior/poet's refusual to change archronistic tactics and weapons they considered traditional and time tested, led to the british domination of th island and the further expansion and power of the UK as a world power. Scots, their dirge and claymore (the inspiration for the modern english cavalry sword) were incorporated/conscripted into the english army and fought many battles abroad, specially in India aganist the sihks; before their combat style and weaponry were retired (except for ceremonial purposes) and scot soliders were outfitted like the rest of the english army.
Again all 300 level undergrad college knowledge learned from books and study before you could look up anything on the internet.
I could publish on the internet that Jedi use bucklers, would not make it true (or false) nor would it make any other source of information false either, it is simply "there".
The Buckler is a small handheld shield. It isn't strapped on at all.'
That is one variant of the buckler shield. There are others.
An example of another buckler, admittedly a more complex item, is the Lantern Shield .Also, vambraces (forearm guards) could also serve a very similar function.
It would appear to me that the DnD buckler is a something that can have several variants, that is, it can replace a fair number of real world items. A couple of the reasons for doing so are for rule simplification and ease of play.
The scottish shield was a "targe" not a "dirge"... a dirge is a march played at funerals.
It's funny I did attend college too (who hasn't) and in all my years of re-enacting I haven't seen a strap on buckler. I have seen several examples of 1100~1600 bucklers that where held, or strapped onto the belt when not in use (which led to the term swashbuckler).
I am aware of the lantern shield but I think we can all agree that was an exotic not the norm.
Can you provide examples? Historical texts? Something other than "My teachers said..." ?
EDIT:
I don't disagree that the buckler in D&D could also be used to represent different pieces of equipment by different names, but vambraces and bazubands are not bucklers, they are arm-guards. Again in play for d&d game effects I don't mind the prices and mechanics changing to keep flavor in the character but IRL we should realise the difference.
The scottish shield was a "targe" not a "dirge"... a dirge is a march played at funerals.
It's funny I did attend college too (who hasn't) and in all my years of re-enacting I haven't seen a strap on buckler. I have seen several examples of 1100~1600 bucklers that where held, or strapped onto the belt when not in use (which led to the term swashbuckler).
I am aware of the lantern shield but I think we can all agree that was an exotic not the norm.
Can you provide examples? Historical texts? Something other than "My teachers said..." ?
EDIT:
I don't disagree that the buckler in D&D could also be used to represent different pieces of equipment by different names, but vambraces and bazubands are not bucklers, they are arm-guards. Again in play for d&d game effects I don't mind the prices and mechanics changing to keep flavor in the character but IRL we should realise the difference.
The Targe is a much larger shield (would be a light shield in this game) and wasnt spiked.
I attended Yale University from 1990-1993 and no I havent kept any of my texts over the past 15 years, which wouldnt be anything more than an heirloom any more and its also quite likely I old them at the student book store when I was done with them.
But the only books in school that dont get outdated and replaced by "new" information are history books (with the excpetion of archeology which is often full of something that is disproved 20 years later)
I finished studying at VMI after entering the military and only studied military history thereafter (as it specifically applies to US military history that is)
So Texts Used in History classes at Yale in the early 90s which are mostly likely long forgotten by everyone other than the author would be the only items Icould reference besides my actual trips to mueseums in New York, London and Paris, where I have actually seen these items I speak of.
The description of buckler as being strapped on and being able to be used by archers is also mentioned in unearthed arcana if I still had a copy.
By the way the term buckler comes from the fact that it could be "buckled" on. Hence the straps.
A targe is 15 inches in diameter on average (about 38 CM) well within the standard the normal 15 cm ~ 45 cm range.
Now the only other definition I could find of a buckler comes form this site which also claims that a buckler is 4 foot long.
However this site and everything else I can find on the subject, and know of the subject personally from experience with arms state what I have.
Here is a copy of the Royal Armouries Ms. I.33 a widely accepted period treatises on the subject.
However the only thing I can find at all for a dirge is funeral songs.
The only thing close to a weapon or shield for the word dirge is from WoW and that this
Now I wouldn't mind being wrong... but not until something more substantial than "I said so" comes along.
As for everything that goes on to, and with, a lantern shield it should be an exotic shield, however it is of the proper size to be a type of buckler.
I would also point out that the word buckler doesn't refer to straps used to attach the shield at all: It comes from the french word Bouclier (shield), or in Old French Boucle (boss).
And I can provide link for that too: here
Yes I like links, I can share them over the internet, and everything I have referenced, is in turn reference off of actual texts readily available.