It has been a long time coming and I have always wondered why some PrCs, like the Dragon Deciple, Arcane Trickster, and Arcane Archer are not just made out to fit the remaining levels to 20. This would make them more powerful as a class in themselves, but would make the class in all a more defining characteristic rather than just half the character's 20 levels. Its also a little odd going back to the normal classes once you have finished the PrC.
So why don't we just break the mold here and make our characters have more of a role than just a deviation.
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I would like to see more flexibility in PRC's in general. I would like to have some that I could enter at 3rd level. Why can't a PC grab a level or two in one class, tap another for a level, take a feat and BANG! Eligible for a certain PRC. I don't like that I have to hold off until 5th at earliest and sometimes as high as 7th or 8th to get into what I want for a prestige. My group usually only plays to 15th level or so and waiting that long(almost half his career) to finally see my character's design start to come together is a long wait.
I would love to see an adjustment for prestige classes. A how-to for gaining entry early or extending the levels beyond the 3, 5 or 10 levels presented would be really cool. I really liked the Unearthed Arcana version of certain base classes as prestige classes that did up the ranger and paladin as 15 level PRCs and would like to be able to do something like that for all types of stuff.
Seems awkward to me and delays the capstone. A well-designed capstone should, IMO, provide continuing benefit to the character continuing in another class. That's one thing I like about PrCs: they're a way to multi-class and still get a capstone ability. Extending any PrC beyond 10 levels just makes that harder and leaves you fewer choices about how to do it.
This would make them more powerful as a class in themselves, but would make the class in all a more defining characteristic rather than just half the character's 20 levels.
Problem is... how far would you have them go? 13 levels? 15? 17?
At a certain point, you start limiting PCs' ability to take a prestige class and reach the endpoint by 20th, by forcing the narrowest builds possible to make the prerequisites. Fewer choices, rather than more. Contrary to the concept of Prestige Classes in the first place.
-Matt
This would make them more powerful as a class in themselves, but would make the class in all a more defining characteristic rather than just half the character's 20 levels.Problem is... how far would you have them go? 13 levels? 15? 17?
At a certain point, you start limiting PCs' ability to take a prestige class and reach the endpoint by 20th, by forcing the narrowest builds possible to make the prerequisites. Fewer choices, rather than more. Contrary to the concept of Prestige Classes in the first place.
-Matt
Good point, but I still think it should be more than 10, at least 12 levels to PrCs that don't have a simple obvious followup class like the assassin. I think one should have the option of being more their PrC than any other class, not just half.
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Extending prestige classes beyond 10 levels? Too long a delay before you qualify? Like to enter at third level? Sounds like prestige classes aren't what you're looking for, but a greater variety of base classes?
Hmmm. Good point. Maybe an official way to make a prestige class into a 15+ level base class would be a cool way to address it instead.
Didn't eh Epic Level handbook have a sidebar about extending 10-level PrC's beyond level 10?
-Skeld
YES they do, BUT you have to be past 20TH LEVEL! Plus not all can't be expanded and your still stuck with only 10 of your 20 levels in a PrC that is supposed to define your character.
Didn't eh Epic Level handbook have a sidebar about extending 10-level PrC's beyond level 10?YES they do, BUT you have to be past 20TH LEVEL! Plus not all can't be expanded and your still stuck with only 10 of your 20 levels in a PrC that is supposed to define your character.
Per the Epic rules, any PrC consisting of 10 levels or more can be extended indefinitely*; the ones from the 3.0 DMG were presented as examples. The only restrictions are: no new abilities are gained at Epic levels, only regularly increasing/occurring benefits continue, and bonus Epic feats are granted every 2-4 levels (depending on how many other abilities are still granted). Also, a character that has 10 levels in a PrC out of 20 total can reasonably be considered to be defined by it, since they will have needed to advance in a certain way to meet the entrance requirements in the first place.
*- There are a few PrCs (especially in the 3.5 supplements) where extended progression doesn't make sense: acolyte of the skin (CAr), dragon disciple (3.5 DMG), elemental savant (CAr), green star adept (CAr), etc. Basically, once you've "completed" a transformational PrC, there's no need to continue in it.
I guess not a lot of other people rush to get to their PrC, the class they really wanted, just to find nothing to do after you finish it at level 15-17 or so.
I guess not a lot of other people rush to get to their PrC, the class they really wanted, just to find nothing to do after you finish it at level 15-17 or so.
sooo...
after playing through 15 levels you expect that you and your GMSTILL don't have enough immagination and feel for balance to compose the last 5 levels on yer own?
ATM with some of the high entry level PrClasses, when I look at the candy placed at 10th level, I usually think "bugger that, I'll never get there anyways"
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what I'd like to see is that a PrC is a detour from the normal classes, rather than an add on.
Bypassing/skipping levels, where the choice which class* is skipped(if any) to be made at 1st level of the PrClass.
so that e.g. an Arcane Trickster with Rogue3/Wizard5/ATr6 can:
continue as the Rogue at 15th level to pick up +1d6 Sneak Attack and +1 to Trap Sense
then go on with Arcane Trickster to Rogue4/Wizard5/ATr10 to finish off with Rogue level 20 for Master Strike and another Rogue Talent
alternatively he could cherry-pick 2 even numbered Wizard levels for the bonus spells or levels 8 and 20 for Specialist Abilities.
An Arcane trickster with Near Omniscience or Fluid Form, now wouldn't that be sweet?
* of those required to take the PrClass, we don't want someone to take 1 level of Wizard, focus on Transmutation School, and then cherry pick Change Shape and Fluid Form on an Assasin that hasn't got a spell progression to support it
I guess not a lot of other people rush to get to their PrC, the class they really wanted, just to find nothing to do after you finish it at level 15-17 or so.sooo...
after playing through 15 levels you expect that you and your GM
STILL don't have enough immagination and feel for balance to compose the last 5 levels on yer own?
OH no, I quite frankly do, I just don't ever seem to play with a lot of very open minded GMs, so I end up stuck with whats in the book.
I just don't ever seem to play with a lot of very open minded GMs, so I end up stuck with whats in the book.
ah, yes I know that tune as well
so how do you like the idea of PrClasses bypassing levels of base classes that have the same theme?
to allow finishing the high character levels with high class levels
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*- There are a few PrCs (especially in the 3.5 supplements) where extended progression doesn't make sense: acolyte of the skin (CAr), dragon disciple (3.5 DMG), elemental savant (CAr), green star adept (CAr), etc. Basically, once you've "completed" a transformational PrC, there's no need to continue in it.
However, I think that the Epic Level Handbook has a web enhancement that does extend Dragon Disciple, if I remember rightly.
However, I think that the Epic Level Handbook has a web enhancement that does extend Dragon Disciple, if I remember rightly.
*- There are a few PrCs (especially in the 3.5 supplements) where extended progression doesn't make sense: acolyte of the skin (CAr), dragon disciple (3.5 DMG), elemental savant (CAr), green star adept (CAr), etc. Basically, once you've "completed" a transformational PrC, there's no need to continue in it.
Yep, Here. Basically just breath weapon dice improvement, natural armor improvement, and a bonus feat every 4th level.