Can we get undead crafting in the book. The feat brings undead creation more in line with golem creation. I t also gives necromancer a better more stream lined way of crafting undead.
I would ask that this at lest be looked into.
Creative Director
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Can we get undead crafting in the book. The feat brings undead creation more in line with golem creation. I t also gives necromancer a better more stream lined way of crafting undead.
I would ask that this at lest be looked into.
Nope; there's not really enough room to build such a relatively large change to the way undead are created in the game. Sounds like a perfect area to explore in a supplementary book, though!
Nope; there's not really enough room to build such a relatively large change to the way undead are created in the game. Sounds like a perfect area to explore in a supplementary book, though!Can we get undead crafting in the book. The feat brings undead creation more in line with golem creation. It also gives necromancer a better more stream lined way of crafting undead.
I would ask that this at lest be looked into.
~pulls out my wallet~ Ok. When can I pay for said supplemental book, James?
Nope; there's not really enough room to build such a relatively large change to the way undead are created in the game. Sounds like a perfect area to explore in a supplementary book, though!Can we get undead crafting in the book. The feat brings undead creation more in line with golem creation. I t also gives necromancer a better more stream lined way of crafting undead.
I would ask that this at lest be looked into.
Get Ross Byers on that. He CRUSHED that article.
Nope; there's not really enough room to build such a relatively large change to the way undead are created in the game. Sounds like a perfect area to explore in a supplementary book, though!
James: I'm not so sure it would take that much room. The entire KQ article contains just about 2600 words. The introduction leaving cuts it down to about 2400. It's also possible to cut the stuff talking about change, since it won't be a change any more, which is another 200 words. A good deal of that ends up in the Bestiary (the creation instructions.) Getting rid of that leaves 1550 words that would be in the core book.
In exchange, you get to take out Animate Dead, Create Undead, Greater Create Undead. The net gain is about 900 words in the core book. Less, if Create Undead is shunted to the Bestiary alongside Craft Construct (How Wizards did it in 3.0 and 3.5).
On the other hand, the SRD spends only about 650 words talking about creating undead, so that would be an increase of 150%.
Get Ross Byers on that. He CRUSHED that article.
My ego thanks you.
Anyway, I said it before and I'll say it again:
Paizo, please let me write that book! And re: handwaving: damn straight. That's the whole thing I've been trying to fix this whole time.So thats what, 15 kinds of undead? Can anyone say Pathfinder Chronicles: Classic Undead Revisited? Some new fluff on undead and how they fit into the world of Golarion, some crunch that allows necromancer villains (or PCs, if you're into that sort of thing) to be effective challenges without hand-waving.
I'd buy it.
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Creative Director
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2600 words would be trouble. That's basically 3 pages of solid text. Those 3 pages would have to come from somewhere else, since this is new material and not replacement material. I don't wan't to take out animate dead and create undead and that kind of stuff, in any case, because that starts to erode the goal of backwards compatibility... and ALSO sets up some annoying "editor traps" by making us have to make sure that these spells don't show up as spell like abilities or prerequisites for magic items as well...
The book's already pretty jam-packed, and frankly, we'll probably need to look at cutting some stuff as it is (hopefully not!). Adding new content isn't really gonna help that scene, alas.
And in the end, adding unplaytested new material isn't really in the best interests of the book at this stage.
supplement book or the monster book would work as well. I wasn't very hopeful for core because of space but it never hurts to ask right.
It's pretty much mutually exclusive with the Create Undead spells, so if it's firm that they're staying, then it doesn't matter how long it is.
I can see what you mean about length, though. Even with only a gain of 900 words, you're looking at a page. Most of it the spell descriptions and tables for Animate Dead I-IX. Even if you shunt the feat itself to the Bestiary to go with Craft Construct, it's going to be the better part of a page. From what I've heard about the page count of the RPG, I understand why even that might be unacceptable.
On the other hand, if you can think of any clever tricks to collapse Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally into less text, the same principles would apply to Animate Dead.
Thanks for the consideration, James.
Get Ross Byers on that. He CRUSHED that article.My ego thanks you.
We talked about that article on my podcast. Listen in, if you haven't already. You're mentioned by name and Wolfgang and I throw compliments at you like we're mad at you.
We talked about that article on my podcast. Listen in, if you haven't already. You're mentioned by name and Wolfgang and I throw compliments at you like we're mad at you.
Wyvern told me. I listened to that segment like 30 times. (Though I didn't know you were the host. I only recognized Ed's name.)
We talked about that article on my podcast. Listen in, if you haven't already. You're mentioned by name and Wolfgang and I throw compliments at you like we're mad at you.Wyvern told me. I listened to that segment like 30 times.
LOL. Well then you've heard the legend of you. :)
LOL. Well then you've heard the legend of you. :)
I am now curious about '101 uses for a shoehorn in a high-fantasy setting', though.
LOL. Well then you've heard the legend of you. :)I am now curious about '101 uses for a shoehorn in a high-fantasy setting', though.
1. Pixie toboggan.
1. Pixie toboggan.LOL. Well then you've heard the legend of you. :)I am now curious about '101 uses for a shoehorn in a high-fantasy setting', though.
2. Sharpened steel shoehorn used as a cobbler/assassin's favorite inconspicuous weapon. When you sit to try on shoes he slits your achilles.
What, no takers? ;)
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1. Pixie toboggan.LOL. Well then you've heard the legend of you. :)I am now curious about '101 uses for a shoehorn in a high-fantasy setting', though.2. Sharpened steel shoehorn used as a cobbler/assassin's favorite inconspicuous weapon. When you sit to try on shoes he slits your achilles.
What, no takers? ;)
3. Makeshift campground spoon
4. pocket shovel for digging out of prisons (see spoon).
5. material componant for the spells "Adjust fit" and "Ghostwalk" (The first resizing existing clothes and the second creating spectral shoes thatn give a modifyer to stealth)
What, no takers? ;)
Maybe move this to the off topic area?
What, no takers? ;)Maybe move this to the off topic area?
Sorry, Russ... I thought extra traffic for a tangential reason would still cause people to see the OP's point.
I look for a greater good when I threadjack. ;)
BTW, Good stuff, Kess!
It's pretty much mutually exclusive with the Create Undead spells, so if it's firm that they're staying, then it doesn't matter how long it is.
I can see what you mean about length, though. Even with only a gain of 900 words, you're looking at a page. Most of it the spell descriptions and tables for Animate Dead I-IX. Even if you shunt the feat itself to the Bestiary to go with Craft Construct, it's going to be the better part of a page. From what I've heard about the page count of the RPG, I understand why even that might be unacceptable.
On the other hand, if you can think of any clever tricks to collapse Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally into less text, the same principles would apply to Animate Dead.
Thanks for the consideration, James.
[Threadjack] So what if another 3rd party d20/OGL company working on an Undead focused setting (Obsidian Twilight) and was interesting in possible producing it and releasing it for this setting (Obsidian Twilight). Would you possibley be interested in doing something like that for that setting (Obsidian Twilight)? Just wondering, of course.[Threadjack]
Offering Ross is never a threadjack, Louis. ;) I heard you have some serious talent connected to your O.T. project. Good luck with it!
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On the other hand, if you can think of any clever tricks to collapse Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally into less text, the same principles would apply to Animate Dead.
Thanks for the consideration, James.
i have an idea to collapse the "cure and cause damage spells" that works decently... i will try to rememebr to mention it in the spells tread
(which is easy... just have one spell and depending of the level slot you use its how much health you recover... something simillar could be done with summon monster and call natural ally, that way you use the table that is already there but take away most of the descriptions repeating 'this works exactly like summon monster I but see changes in the table', same can be done with curing and causing damage spells, creating a single spell and adding a table of how each slot would be used or 'spontaneouly changed' by the cleric)
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Get Ross Byers on that. He CRUSHED that article.My ego thanks you.
Anyway, I said it before and I'll say it again:
a question Ross
while i understand that creating sentient undeads is an evil act... if you consider a zombie or an skeleton that needto be controlled similar to golems... why its also considered evil? (questioning because one of my players is a necromancer wannabe and weare interesting in using that feat to create non-sentient undead, but we are not interested in having an evil necromancer on the game... it would not work with the paladin or the LG cleric)
It is an Evil act because zombies and skeletons, though mindless, are innately Evil. Further, creating them requires desecrating the dead and possibly preventing a being from reaching its proper afterlife, which isn't nice either.
However, if you want to be nice to your player, you can rule that Zombies are Neutral because they are mindless (like in 3.0), and that desecrating the dead is not Evil on D&D's absolute scale. However, I will point out that even in 3.0, all the undead creating spells are Evil.
It is worth noting, though, that Wizards and Sorcerors can cast spells opposed to their alignment, and an occasional Evil act doesn't necessarily change your alignment to evil. This won't help much with the Paladin, but the Cleric might be more accepting.
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thanks for the comment Ross, right now the necromancer is unable to rise any undead... but he has been working in convincing the cleric that a sword is not evil... so why a zombie... specially if the person's soul has already reached its resting place...
actually the paladin... is lots easier... (i think he is falling) he takes any weapon to bring justice to evil doers as worth taking... yes... the cleric is more indisagreement with this attitude than toward the necromancer's own... the paladin and the cleri arefrom the same goddess... still they disagree in most ways...
it doesn't help the paladin has Wisdom 10
The 'undying' mechanic was terrible, in my opinion. The proper way to represent calling on ancestor spirits is to either grant bonuses representing 'spiritual guidance' or use outsiders like Lantern Archons as the spirits of the fallen willingly returned from their afterlife.
Making undead out of your ancestors isn't asking for help, it's compelling it.
[Threadjack] So what if another 3rd party d20/OGL company working on an Undead focused setting (Obsidian Twilight) and was interesting in possible producing it and releasing it for this setting (Obsidian Twilight). Would you possibley be interested in doing something like that for that setting (Obsidian Twilight)? Just wondering, of course.[Threadjack]
Of course I'd be interested. If all you need is the undead creation rules, they're available under the OGL at this point, but I'd be happy to contribute to anything else you need related to the undead. Drop me a line at the email address listed on my profile.
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It's pretty much mutually exclusive with the Create Undead spells, so if it's firm that they're staying, then it doesn't matter how long it is.
Is this necessarily true? What if the undead-making spells had their durations reduced to 1 min/level or 10 min/level, so the evil necromancer could still raise his undead army for a single assault on the town, but would need more time and energy to make lasting undead...?
Is this necessarily true? What if the undead-making spells had their durations reduced to 1 min/level or 10 min/level, so the evil necromancer could still raise his undead army for a single assault on the town, but would need more time and energy to make lasting undead...?
I created a chain, Animate Dead I-IX, to fill that role. I suppose it could be retrofitted to the old spells (thus once again denying 1st level necromancers undead minions), but since the purpose of the spells would be so different, it's not like much backward compatibility would be retained.
Paizo, please let me write that book! And re: handwaving: damn straight. That's the whole thing I've been trying to fix this whole time.So thats what, 15 kinds of undead? Can anyone say Pathfinder Chronicles: Classic Undead Revisited? Some new fluff on undead and how they fit into the world of Golarion, some crunch that allows necromancer villains (or PCs, if you're into that sort of thing) to be effective challenges without hand-waving.
I'd buy it.
*Takes out $20* Yes please.
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I created a chain, Animate Dead I-IX, to fill that role. I suppose it could be retrofitted to the old spells (thus once again denying 1st level necromancers undead minions), but since the purpose of the spells would be so different, it's not like much backward compatibility would be retained.
I think that's an issue only for certain meanings of backward compatibility. If we still have the spell names, we can still read statblocks, so the most important kind of compatibility for this purpose (the one that lets people continue to buy Pathfinder Adventures without necessarily wanting to buy the PFRPG) is maintained. And we could probably fill in the gaps with Greater or Lesser versions of the spells, and/or new spells that achieve the same effect as your versions.
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*Takes out $20* Yes please.Paizo, please let me write that book! And re: handwaving: damn straight. That's the whole thing I've been trying to fix this whole time.So thats what, 15 kinds of undead? Can anyone say Pathfinder Chronicles: Classic Undead Revisited? Some new fluff on undead and how they fit into the world of Golarion, some crunch that allows necromancer villains (or PCs, if you're into that sort of thing) to be effective challenges without hand-waving.
I'd buy it.
i agree
more than dragons i want undeadsmore than fiends i want undeads
more than dwarves i want undeads
only more than undeads i want more from Iomedae :P (yeah i know Gods & Magic is there... i want more :P)
i agree
more than dragons i want undeads
more than fiends i want undeads
more than dwarves i want undeads
only more than undeads i want more from Iomedae :P (yeah i know Gods & Magic is there... i want more :P)
Seriously, not that dragons aren't cool. They are. But my players face hundreds more undead than dragons in a given campaign :)
Of course I'd be interested. If all you need is the undead creation rules, they're available under the OGL at this point, but I'd be happy to contribute to anything else you need related to the undead. Drop me a line at the email address listed on my profile.
Email sent! Thanks!