First off, I would have to say that I love the Sorcerer Bloodlines. That said, I felt that while many were made available to us, one category was left out: Lycanthropes. Here is my idea on what it could look like based on the trend of the other bloodlines. Enjoy.
Jay Fisher
Lycanthrope Bloodline
At some point in your family's history, a lycanthrope interbred with your bloodline, and now its power flows through your veins. The type of lycanthrope would be determined by the alignment of the sorcerer based on the chart below.
Class Skill: Knowledge (nature)
Bonus Spells: cause fear (3rd), bull's strength (5th), rage (7th), charm monster (9th), animal growth (11th), summon nature's ally VI (13th), summon nature's ally VII (15th), animal shapes (17th), shapechange (19th).
Bonus Feats: Blind-fight, Combat Reflexes, Diehard, Endurance, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Self-sufficient, Skill Focus (Knowledge (nature)).
Bloodline Powers: Lycanthrope sorcerers show increasing signs of their wild heritage as they increase in level. While these traits are simple to hide, a sorcerer can choose to show her traits at any time.
- Claws (Ex): Starting at 1st level, you can make two claw attacks as a full-attack action. These claws are treated as natural weapons, meaning that you are always considered armed and you do not gain additional attacks for a high base attack bonus. These attacks deal 1d6 points of damage plus your Strength modifier (1d4 if you are Small). At 5th level, these claws are considered magic weapons for
the purpose of overcoming DR. At 7th level, the damage increases to 1d8 points of damage (1d6 if you are Small). At 11th level, these claws deal an additional 1d6 points of damage of your energy type on a successful hit. This is a supernatural ability.
- Damage Reduction (Ex): At 3rd level, you gain damage reduction 5/silver. At 9th level this damage reduction increases to 10/silver.
- Strength of the Were (Ex): At 9th level, you gain a +2 inherent bonus to your Strength. This bonus increases to +4 at 13th level, and again to +6 at 17th level.
- Lycanthrope Hybrid Form (Su): At 15th level, you can wildshape and become a lycanthrope hybrid for 1 round per caster level. While in this form, you gain the shapechange subtype and are affected by spells that are normally targeted for those creatures. You can use this ability once per day.
- Soul of the Were (Su): At 20th level, the bloodline is fully realized. The sorcerer gains a +2 to his Wisdom ability score. In addition, when in hybrid form, a lycanthrope' s physical ability scores improve according to its kind, as set out by the table below.
AL - Lycanthrope - Hybrid Score Adjustments
LG - Werebear ---- Str +16, Dex +2, Con +8
NG - Werelion ---- Str +10, Dex +6, Con +5
CG - Wereraven --- Dex +4, Con +2
LN - Weretiger --- Str +12, Dex +4, Con +6
TN - Wereboar ---- Str +4, Con +6
CN - Werebadger -- Dex +6, Con +4
LE - Wereleopard - Str +5, Dex +8, Con +4
NE - Wererat ----- Dex +6, Con +2
CE - Werewolf ---- Str +2, Dex +4, Con +4
(Note: Yes, there are some non-standard weres listed. Just trying to fill out the list.)
Not to point out the obvious, but some of the hybrids are much, much better than others.
[edit: Also survival seems like it might be a more appropriate class skill.]
Not to point out the obvious, but some of the hybrids are much, much better than others.
[edit: Also survival seems like it might be a more appropriate class skill.]
That's correct. But the bonuses are based on the original animals and the lycanthropy rules from the Monster Manual. Of course, a PC never normally had a choice before as if lycanthropy was contracted, they got stuck with whatever attacked him. But also, alignment (based on the above table) would be a limiting factor as well. The alignment of the sorcerer would determine which lycanthrope bloodline he had.
And also remember, this is a level 20 ability. So it wouldn't be in effect until then.
The alignment of the sorcerer would determine which lycanthrope bloodline he had.Not to point out the obvious, but some of the hybrids are much, much better than others.
[edit: Also survival seems like it might be a more appropriate class skill.]
This strike me as kind of weird. Say a werewolf gets in your bloodline, does this mean you can only ever be Chaotic Evil? What happens if you change alignments?
I'd suggest taking a page from the changes Paizo has made to the polymorphing spells and just have the same set of bonuses for all the different hybrids. In fact no mechanical differentiation and just have whichever werecritter got busy with your ancestors be a matter of fluff.
If I'm reading it right at level 15 you can gain the shapechanger subtype for 1round/level 1/day? That seems terribly weak. Ought to go ahead and add some stats or DR in there and just have either an increase to those or a totally seperate ability as the capstone.
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First, an awesome idea, and one that I haven't seen mentioned much, a Werecritter Bloodline!
A few tweaks I'd suggest;
Make the 1 round / level per day of hybrid form usable as a free action on your turn (and endable as a free action at any time), and able to be broken up throughout the day. That way, a Sorcerer capable of going into hybrid form would get to break it up and use it during several combats, if he's conservative.
The stat bonuses for the hybrid form should be a blanket plus. Say, +10. If he's a bear, he'd get +6 Str and +4 Con (for example). If he's a rat, he'd get +6 Dex and +4 Con. Etc. He's not turning into an actual lycanthrope, he's a Sorcerer who is channeling the power of that bloodline, so it's fine if his numbers don't match those for a real tiger or viper or whatever.
The Damage Reduction shows up *really* early at 3rd level and is kinda awesome for that level. I'm not sure how it would be tweaked, but I think I would rather see the hybrid form show up much earlier, and the damage reduction be part of it (or just enhanced from a much smaller number while in hybrid form...).
For instance, perhaps the hybrid form can be assumed starting at 3rd level, and grants only +2 to one stat (Str for bear, Dex for rat, etc.). Every 4 levels (rounded down) grants another +2, so that at 7th, the hybrid form would have +4 to split (in increments of +2) among various physical stats. The hybrid form also has DR/silver equal to half of his Sorcerer level (round down).
Sample Wererat Bloodline Sorcerer;
3rd level, can enter hybrid form for 3 rounds per day (which can be divided into up to 3 one round uses). In that form, has +2 Dex and gains DR 1 / silver.
7th level, 7 rounds per day, +2 Dex, +2 Con, DR 3 / silver.
11th level, 11 rounds per day, +4 Dex, +2 Con, DR 5 / silver.
15th level , 15 rounds per day, +4 Dex, +4 Con, DR 7 / silver.
19th level, 19 rounds per day, +6 Dex, +4 Con, DR 9 / silver.
20th level, 20 rounds per day, +6 Dex, +4 Con, DR 10 / silver.
Outside of hybrid form, his DR/silver is only equal to 1 per four sorcerer levels (round down). DR 1/silver at 4th level to DR 5/silver at 20th level. This is replaced by and does not stack with the superior DR/silver rating in hybrid form.
Instead of coming up with a PITA chart for each were-critter, just give each of them the +10 and make a listing that tells which stat will be primary or secondary for each (rat, primary Dex, secondary Con, bear, primary Str, secondary Con, etc.).
Some might have alternate breakdowns, such as a wereleopard, which might divide it's +10 final numbers into +4 Str, +4 Dex and +2 Con, but that would be a non-core 'were-critter' anyway, and could be handled in an expansion supplement.
This strike me as kind of weird. Say a werewolf gets in your bloodline, does this mean you can only ever be Chaotic Evil? What happens if you change alignments?I'd suggest taking a page from the changes Paizo has made to the polymorphing spells and just have the same set of bonuses for all the different hybrids. In fact no mechanical differentiation and just have whichever werecritter got busy with your ancestors be a matter of fluff.
If I'm reading it right at level 15 you can gain the shapechanger subtype for 1round/level 1/day? That seems terribly weak. Ought to go ahead and add some stats or DR in there and just have either an increase to those or a totally seperate ability as the capstone.
Right now, it is only an IDEA. While constructive criticism is welcome, there must be a beginning point for discussion, right? :)
1 round/level at 15th level is 15 minutes this bloodline power can be used each day. It is a preview for when the Sorcerer finally gains shapechange spell at 18th level. Think of it similar to the 15th level undead bloodline power. Shapechange is a very powerful spell. Allowing more than this would unbalance what is already offered for the other bloodlines.
I really like this idea especially with Set's recommendations.
I'd add that the 9th level bonus spell should be Beast Shape II instead of Charm Monster.
It seems you'd be more about becoming one with an animal form rather than charming any monster.
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I wouldn't mind seeing the various 'X Empathy' abilities of the actual Lycanthropes added, at some stage (or perhaps just made available as a Feat that a Lycanthropic Bloodline Sorcerer could pick up). It could be at low level, since it's a fairly un-spectacular ability, but it would fit the theme if a wolf-blooded sorcerer had a nearly supernatural ability to communicate with / influence wolves and dire wolves.
This strike me as kind of weird. Say a werewolf gets in your bloodline, does this mean you can only ever be Chaotic Evil? What happens if you change alignments?I'd suggest taking a page from the changes Paizo has made to the polymorphing spells and just have the same set of bonuses for all the different hybrids. In fact no mechanical differentiation and just have whichever werecritter got busy with your ancestors be a matter of fluff.
If I'm reading it right at level 15 you can gain the shapechanger subtype for 1round/level 1/day? That seems terribly weak. Ought to go ahead and add some stats or DR in there and just have either an increase to those or a totally seperate ability as the capstone.
Right now, it is only an IDEA. While constructive criticism is welcome, there must be a beginning point for discussion, right? :)
1 round/level at 15th level is 15 minutes this bloodline power can be used each day. It is a preview for when the Sorcerer finally gains shapechange spell at 18th level. Think of it similar to the 15th level undead bloodline power. Shapechange is a very powerful spell. Allowing more than this would unbalance what is already offered for the other bloodlines.
Um...isn't a round 6 seconds? So that's 90 seconds of being able to what? Near as I can figure the only benefit of the shapechanger subtype is you can overcome being polymorphed. Being incorporeal give you all this:
Spectres, wraiths, and a few other creatures lack physical bodies. Such creatures are insubstantial and canÂ’t be touched by nonmagical matter or energy. Likewise, they cannot manipulate objects or exert physical force on objects. However, incorporeal beings have a tangible presence that sometimes seems like a physical attack against a corporeal creature.
Incorporeal creatures are present on the same plane as the characters, and characters have some chance to affect them.
Incorporeal creatures can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, by magic weapons, or by spells, spell-like effects, or supernatural effects. They are immune to all nonmagical attack forms. They are not burned by normal fires, affected by natural cold, or harmed by mundane acids.
Even when struck by magic or magic weapons, an incorporeal creature has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source — except for a force effect or damage dealt by a ghost touch weapon.
Incorporeal creatures are immune to critical hits, extra damage from being favored enemies, and from sneak attacks. They move in any direction (including up or down) at will. They do not need to walk on the ground. They can pass through solid objects at will, although they cannot see when their eyes are within solid matter.
Incorporeal creatures hiding inside solid objects get a +2 circumstance bonus on Listen checks, because solid objects carry sound well. Pinpointing an opponent from inside a solid object uses the same rules as pinpointing invisible opponents (see Invisibility, below).
Incorporeal creatures are inaudible unless they decide to make noise.
The physical attacks of incorporeal creatures ignore material armor, even magic armor, unless it is made of force (such as mage armor or bracers of armor) or has the ghost touch ability.
Incorporeal creatures pass through and operate in water as easily as they do in air.
Incorporeal creatures cannot fall or take falling damage.
Corporeal creatures cannot trip or grapple incorporeal creatures.
Incorporeal creatures have no weight and do not set off traps that are triggered by weight.
Incorporeal creatures do not leave footprints, have no scent, and make no noise unless they manifest, and even then they only make noise intentionally.
I'm not sure how this ability being is balanced by the sorcerer eventually gaining the shapechange spell, any sorcerer can take shapechange at that level.
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Hi
I Like the concept. Really cool. The only part I
don't like is the Alignment restriction on type
of lycanthrope. Some folks might like one were-
creature vs another for flavor/backgroud reasons
(or prefer to play against type).
This would be intersting multiclassed with certain
classes (Barbarian, Druid, Monk and Ranger) come
to mind depending on which lycanthrope type is
chosen.
And Track should be on the bonus feat list.
Survival might make a better class skill.
my two coppers.
Tom
summon nature's ally VI (13th), summon nature's ally VII (15th), animal shapes (17th)
Not sorcerer spells.
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Hi
I Like the concept. Really cool. The only part I
don't like is the Alignment restriction on type
of lycanthrope. Some folks might like one were-
creature vs another for flavor/backgroud reasons
(or prefer to play against type).This would be intersting multiclassed with certain
classes (Barbarian, Druid, Monk and Ranger) come
to mind depending on which lycanthrope type is
chosen.And Track should be on the bonus feat list.
Survival might make a better class skill.
my two coppers.
Tom
i agree fully
i would also love to see silver affecting them a bit more if they gain so many benefits
summon nature's ally VI (13th), summon nature's ally VII (15th), animal shapes (17th)Not sorcerer spells.
There a precedent for that, see the celestial and fey bloodlines for example.
There a precedent for that, see the celestial and fey bloodlines for example.summon nature's ally VI (13th), summon nature's ally VII (15th), animal shapes (17th)Not sorcerer spells.
I see that now. My bad.
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The type of lycanthrope would be determined by the alignment of the sorcerer based on the chart below.
AL - Lycanthrope - Hybrid Score Adjustments
LG - Werebear ---- Str +16, Dex +2, Con +8
NG - Werelion ---- Str +10, Dex +6, Con +5
CG - Wereraven --- Dex +4, Con +2
LN - Weretiger --- Str +12, Dex +4, Con +6
TN - Wereboar ---- Str +4, Con +6
CN - Werebadger -- Dex +6, Con +4
LE - Wereleopard - Str +5, Dex +8, Con +4
NE - Wererat ----- Dex +6, Con +2
CE - Werewolf ---- Str +2, Dex +4, Con +4
Why should alignment determin anything? While I admit that infected lycans might be evil(insane), why does everyone choose to think that were-anything means your a certain alignment? Here is a great example..
Any chance we could bring the shifting mechanic more in line with the barbarian rage mechanic? Offer it at lower level and have it progress similarly?
I think that is a really cool idea, but the lycanthrope forms at 20th-level should be standardised and maybe not quite as rigidly set to specific alignments. There should be no mechanical difference between a wererat-blooded sorcerer and a werebear-blooded sorcerer.