Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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What would people say about making a small tweak to wizard bonus feats to eliminate a few dead levels? Instead of Scribe Scroll at 1st level and one bonus feat every five levels, make it Scribe Scroll at 1st level plus one additional bonus feat every four levels thereafter (5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th). That makes two less dead levels, and would mean no levels after 1st that have a bonus feat and a school power clumped together.
I like it.
Simple, to the point, better spread across levels.
No, I really do not like this idea. The sorcerer stands as the wizard's retarded nephew as is already, this would just make the sorcerer even more irrelavant.
Beyond that with the specialities that wizards get they really don't have that many 'dead' levels to begin with.
Sounds very reasonable to me. I like the Wizard Bonus feats as a means to show their dedication to studying magic, and I think this helps make it a more fluid class feature.
I don't see where the wizard is gimpped though.
Arcane Bond -- either a scout or an extra spell of choice a day.
1st level unlimited ability -- and usually better than the sorcerer's especially at scaling
and then as you go up in levels you get a 1st level spell you can use 1/2 your class level a day, plus all the other spells you can take (taking the one lower for twice the use is really nice).
PLUS more bonus feats than the sorcerer gets. I really see the wizard as the golden standard, and having said that don't see where they need more stuff.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
However allowing the wizard to get a bonus feat at first level instead of just granting scribe scroll wouldn't hurt my feelings.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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No, I really do not like this idea. The sorcerer stands as the wizard's retarded nephew as is already, this would just make the sorcerer even more irrelavant.
Beyond that with the specialities that wizards get they really don't have that many 'dead' levels to begin with.
I guess I don't really see how the wizard getting their bonus feats at 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th is that horrifically unbalancing vs. them getting them at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th. It seems like a pretty microscopic change, not even increasing the total number of feats, just smoothing out their progression for less clumping in class abilities.
No big deal either way tho.
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Heh, I wasn't expecting many of the early threads in this section of the playtest to be "give the wizards more goodies" or "the sorcerer needs more love" (although the latter would make a more sense to me, I guess, given that wizards are generally more attractive to most players). Mind you, I didn't expect a significant "Sneak Attack is overpowered" conversation in the last section, either.
For what it's worth, I personally am not persuaded that this is a worthwhile change. I don't feel that playing a wizard has boring levels, anyhow, really.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I'll add another vote here in favor. Eliminating "dead levels" is always a good thing, especially if you can do so without actually increasing the number of feats being granted to the class. Bonus feats at 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th would be great, especially since it's coordinating with getting access to 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th level spells. It would allow you to take a metamagic feat to make use of your new slots since you probably only have 2-4 spells of that level in your spellbook at the time.
The wizard gets new spell levels at odd numbered levels, those are not 'dead' levels in the sense that they don't get any new powers. All this really does IMO is speed up the feat progression in wizards which IMO is fixing something that isn't broken.
Objectively, "dead" levels for full-progression casters aren't very dead, especially ones where you get access to a new level of spells. On the other hand, any full-progression prestige class does the same thing for your spells, and will usually hand out some other advantage at the same time.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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The wizard gets new spell levels at odd numbered levels, those are not 'dead' levels in the sense that they don't get any new powers. All this really does IMO is speed up the feat progression in wizards which IMO is fixing something that isn't broken.
Agreed. This rises only to the level of "I suppose that might be nice" but nowhere near the world of 'need.'
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I am significantly less concerned about dead levels for full spellcasting classes. There might be something to this suggestion, but I am not yet convinced.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I'm never bothered by dead levels, nor is a good wizard-playing friend of mine (if you're counting)
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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The wizard gets new spell levels at odd numbered levels, those are not 'dead' levels in the sense that they don't get any new powers. All this really does IMO is speed up the feat progression in wizards which IMO is fixing something that isn't broken.Agreed. This rises only to the level of "I suppose that might be nice" but nowhere near the world of 'need.'
Ditto. It's not strictly necessary, but having feats become available at the same level that new spell levels are attained would be great for usefulness and, again, you're not ADDING anything to the class, just bumping stuff it already got forward a little.
Well, I would argue that dead levels for full spellcasters are the very reason that everyone playing a full caster multiclasses into a full-casting prestige class at the first available opportunity. If prestige classes offer full spellcasting without any dead levels, why stick to a full-casting base class with lots of dead levels?I am significantly less concerned about dead levels for full spellcasting classes. There might be something to this suggestion, but I am not yet convinced.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Well I would suggest that the specialist powers were redone in order to encourage sticking with core. PrCing out means no additional specialist powers.
If people want to give up their specialist powers to PrC then why not? The idea was not to eliminate PrCs but to make it a trade.
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While I'm not opposed to moving the feats to the given levels that are suggested - the levels suggested are those that provide a new spell level to cast from - I don't think it's necessary really.
Having the bonus feat moved up to 9th encourages more multi-classing in that I can now get my lucrative 5th level spells and a new feat at level 9, now 10 is a dead level, and I can decide to ditch the class.
Plus the odd levels you're already gaining a standard feat - so having all the bonus feats at odd levels was just too much at once, IMO - a standard feat, a bonus feat, and a new level of spell to cast.
Robert
What would people say about making a small tweak to wizard bonus feats to eliminate a few dead levels? Instead of Scribe Scroll at 1st level and one bonus feat every five levels, make it Scribe Scroll at 1st level plus one additional bonus feat every four levels thereafter (5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th). That makes two less dead levels, and would mean no levels after 1st that have a bonus feat and a school power clumped together.
Wizards are very good. This may seem minor, but I just see it as another step of powercreep for a class that doesn't need it. I love wizards, I see myself continueing to play the class more than any other. Though I should be biased toward the class I cannot justify giving it any more goodies.