Ok I'm going to work from the top down and point out what I see wrong and what I see right.
Stats
Well Cha is going to have to be king, let's say 16 just to get you off the ground. If you choose a race that has a bonus to Cha you can rely on that to carry you up to the 16. With a fifteen point buy (supposed standard according to the beta book) that still eats up 5 points. Most bard players want a lot of skill points so Int is slightly important maybe a 12 or 14 here. Light armor means Dex is a bit more important than normal and many skills rely on Dex too so another 12 or 14 here. This shows some MAD problems with a Bard. You got to have the CHA if you want to cast spells or have a decent save for some of your class abilities but Int controls your skills while Str, Dex and Con your combat effectiveness. IF you go 12 Int 14 Dex you have 3 points left, so you get to choose which you want, an extra + 1 fort (your weak save) and + 1 HP or + 1 to hit. Personally I would end up as a human with: 10 Str 14 Dex 13 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 16 Cha. A Halfling could do slightly different to keep an even 10 Str and still get a bit more bang out of their stats becuase of their + 2 to dex. Halfling: 10 Str 16 Dex 11 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 16 Cha. A Gnome by me would end up looking like the human statwise.
Hit Dice
A d8 hit die. I like this, it's a good solid base to absorb damage with. Not amazing, you aren't going to front line but you can hold your own for a little bit if need be. It's right where it should be.
Base Attack Bonus
Average. Well what can you really expect? Bards are supposed to be decent combatants and an average base attack bonus certainly illustrates that fact.
Save Throws
Good Ref and Good Will, poor fort all make sense. It's a good thing the bard gets two good save throws becuase they are too MAD to afford to try and bolster these on a fifteen point buy.
Skill Points
6 per level. However IF you want all your class features 2 of these are going into 2 different perform skills. If you are willing to accept just having half your class abilities you only need 1 perform skill. This is tempered a little in that you do get a bonus skill point, however that MUST be spent in a knowledge no choice on the matter so choose which you want. So the question becomes do you want versitility of class features or skills. This is something I don't like, no other class has to spend skill points to have a class feature, and the discription of the bard says "ultimate generalist" how can you do that when getting all your class features leaves you with less skill points than the ranger? A Human fighter with no Int bonus that chooses a skill point instead of hit point gets 4 skill points a level. Shesh!
Class Skills
Well Bards are decent here. Plenty of choices. I would like to see a few more like disable device. Picture this: A bard running from the father of the girl of last night needs to disable the lock on the door to get outside then needs to jam the door shut. Pretty easy to see, a fantasy staple and the bard class doesn't support this action. At least the new skill system makes it easy to cross class the skill in question. However the issue with skill points is still going to haunt you here.
Spells
Plenty of ways to heal various maladies. But there are several problems here.
1. You don't get them all, having a total limit of 40 spells at level 20.
2. You get your spells later than everyone else. It's fine up through 2nd level spells, you are on par with the sorcerer, that's not too bad. but by the time you get your first 3rd level spell everyone else has been casting them for a level. 4th level spells? Even the sorcerer is laughing at your slowness as he's casting 5th level spells. When you FINALLY get 5th level spells the wizard and cleric are casting 7th level spells. Those paltry 6th level spells finally come your way when everyone else has left you in the dust, even the sorcerer is casting 8th level spells at that point.
3. Only six spell levels means that the few combat spells you get are going to have low DC's making saving them easier that for other casters.
4. The spell list isn't that great by the time you get to them the spells are old news that everyone else has had for a while. Several of your buffs are actually better than your class abilities! There are a some alright buffs but the cleric in the party is going to beat you hands down in this department, his are just plain better, he gets more and sooner and his doesn't have to compete with other spells known same for the wizard. A cleric wants it, he gets it. At fourth level you get 2 buffs (freedom of movement (that clerics and druid had at level 7) and greater invisibility (level 7 for wizards)) 5th level only has Greater heroism (wizard's got it at level 11), while 6th level has heroes feast amd three mass spells: Cat's grace, Foxes' cunning and eagle's splendor. Wow good thing you waited until level 16 to get those they are truely game breaking, of course the cleric has had them since 11th level on all four spells.
Class Abilities (non performance)
Well if you want abilities that don't have a thing to do with combat you are in the right place: If you want scant class abilities that are a joke you are still doing good.
Bardic Knowledge: One of the few decent ones on the list, gives you 1/2 your bard level as a bonus on all knowledge check and an extra skill point that can only be spent on a knowledge skill. Take it it's better than the rest of these!
Well Versed: what's that? a + 4 against other bards and language or sonic dependant spells? That's great, becuase you know these things are so common! I mean, um no not really. How many sonic/language dependent spells are there again? Command, Greater Command, Lesser Geas/Quest, Geas/Quest, Message (yeah really no save throw though), shatter, shout, Greater shout, Song of Discord, Speak with Dead (again yeah really), Sound Burst, Suggestion, Mass Suggestion, and Wail of the Banshee... 12 spells you will actually save against... if they even ever get thrown at you...
Lore Master: Ok I can take 10 on knowledges... That's... underwhelming, And take 20 'x' times per day? Look if I need to take 20 on a knowledge check it's probably one of those things the DM doesn't want to tell me yeah? By the way that taking 10? yeah you have to have ranks in the knowledge skill you want to use that for, eating up more skill points or spreading your bonus skill point from Bardic knowledge really thin.
Jack of All Trades: This is a decent ability. You have certainly been punished enough to get it. The bonus taking 10 thing is almost an insult though. You have 5 ranks? ok you can take 10. wow thank you.
Performance based
Big note right up front: Go read Calm Emotions. Yeah that's right one 2nd level bard or cleric spell entirely ruins all morale bonuses including inspire courage!
Speaking of which lets look at inspire courage:
Standard action to start and continue lasts for 5 rounds after you finish using standard actions to continue it. Gives a + 1 bonus at first level. This increases to + 2 at fifth level, + 3 at 11th level to finally rest at + 4 at 16th level.
However A first level bless spell is also a morale bonus all it doesn't do is grant the damage bonus, everything else is the same as a basic inspire courage just without all the extra standard actions. Good hope which you get at level 7 (it's a third level spell) will do everything that the inspire courage will do and doesn't take extra actions to use. After 11th level no one can get as many people with one ability with as big as a morale bonus. So guess what everyone is going to want you to do every round as a standard action from level 11 on?
Inspire Competence: Give someone a + 2 competence bonus on some skills as long as you concentrate for up to 2 minutes. That's it, it doesn't scale, it doesn't affect more than one target and it takes a standard action. Why don't you, you know, just aid other? (maybe becuase of a lack of skills yourself, to bad you needed two perform skills to get all these abilities).
Suggestion: Wow if you managed to fascinate them you get a chance at a suggestion! That's two save throws they got to this one ability that a wizard can do (silenced) at 7th level, one more than you've put into bard when you get this ability. Oh and you still can't use this in combat.
Dirge of Doom: They have to hear you, it only goes out 30 feet from you and if they just walk away for 3 rounds it goes away. Still a standard action (again) that goes away if you stop and you wasted 8 levels for a mass shaken effect that doesn't scale. WOW.
Discordant Performance: A 30 foot burst confusion spell that the enemy continually gets extra saves for and if they go further than 30 feet from you it ends and only lasts a number of rounds equal to your bard level or until you stop using another standard action to keep the effect going, whichever of the three effects come first.
Inspire Greatness: Ok this is just an subpar buff that only affects a few allies, as a doubled up aid spell. You still have to spend standard actions, it's still a competence bonus so it could stack with Good Hope which is good becuase you aren't going to be inspiring anything while using this one. 9 levels to get this baby, yeah.
Song of Freedom: Are you kidding me? Twelve levels to get a break enchantment spell that takes the regular casting time only affects one person (the spell affects multiple) and everyone else has had since level 9? ARE YOU NUTS!?!?!?!
Soothing Performance: For a full minute of performance you get a Mass cure light wounds and you get rid of a few small effects: fatigue, sickened, and shakened. Becuase nothing else could handle those small issues. Mass Cure Light Wounds is a level 5 spell that clerics have (again) had since level 9. You get this at level 13...
Frightening Tune: Wow a fear spell at level 14 that only lasts d4 + Cha Mod rounds and leaves the subject immune to this ability for 24 hours.
Paralyzing Show: This one is decent but still not good. 30 foot burst Paralyzation that lasts for a number of rounds equal to your bard level, with a new save every level. This one doesn't say you have to continue performing. That may be a fluke but take what you can get :(
Inspire Heroics: Becuase you know making save throws and having a + 4 dodge is heroic. Only affects a single person (possibly two see below) and still requires continous standard actions to keep it going fades after 5 rounds of stopping. 15th level to get this. Everyone else is casting 8th level spells, sneak attacking causing str damage dispelling strike bleeding damage and no AoO's or hacking like a mofo and this is what you bring to the table. Check this out level 20 cap right? "for every 3 levels past level 15 you can affect one additional creature" or we could just say you can affect a second creature at level 18. Just sayin...
Mass Suggestion: 18th level. 18th level! You spent 18 levels to get this? Wizards can do this at level 11! SEVEN LEVELS BEFORE YOU. By the way you could just CAST THE SPELL! You've had it seen level 13 it's only 5th level!
Deadly Performance: A good one, twenty levels and you got a chance to kill something. Others go to kill something and fail? Loads of damage and they can try again. You go to kill something and fail? You stun it and it becomes immune to your deadly performance for 24 hours. That's right d4 rounds of stun and complete immunity to your deadly performance for 24 hours. Amazing.
Everything a bard gets is too little too late. Bards have to get close to affect enemies but they aren't designed to live through doing just that! Great for a support class but Player Classes deserve better. I don't care how this gets fixed, more general abilities, better performance abilities, more/better spells or all three but please fix it.
So how do you handle a bard if you are fighting one? Just stay 30 feet away, he can't do anything to you from that distance Or throw the poor dog a bone and take him home with you. Heavens know he needs all the help he can get.
Your analysis really highlights the "why" of what-needs-fixing.
While Bards are one of the classes that are feasible as "solo characters", considering that D&D is first-and-foremost a group-based game, that isn't enough to work with as "the 5th character". The problem is that as the "ultimate generalist", they aren't necessarily supposed to be the best at what they do in any given area.
However, one of party roles for which a bard is often needed is to be able to take the spot of any of the other roles in a pinch. So while they might not be able to match the cleric in healing/buffing, deal damage like a fighter or rogue, or have as much arcane firepower as the wizard, it's important that they are adept enough in each area to remain relevant at any given average party level.
So many levels of class feature lag is appropriate... 2? 3?
I really wonder if it would work better to give the bard 2nd Ed style spellbook-based casting. The would select spells from the Wizard list, while being able to spontaneously cast a small number of spells from a bard list. i.e. They could burn a memorized spell to spontaneously cast a bardic spell of the same level (such as Cure Wounds spell).
In this way, they would mimic the spell casting of Wizards, Sorcerers and Clerics by melding all of their unique spellcasting methods into their own.
Yeah as I looked farther and farther into this I realized that lag was huge and that the abilities you got for waiting so long where generally worse than the spells the replicate. Either the abilities have less range, few targets, don't last as long, or are to hard to set up for. The bard finally gets something that looks on the surface like it should be powerful, but when you back up and look at mechanics of it and when the other player classes get comparable options it just doesn't cut it.
If we are going to make the bard a "wander performer" or what not they need to get into their own. If they are going to be ultimate generalist then they need to get their spells a bit sooner. With fewer spell levels and the current spell selection being what it is bards will never actually replace another character. But they have no place of their own in an adventuring group either.
We need to either give them their own role in an adventuring group, or actually make it possible for them to keep up with the jack of all trades idea.
I'm sorry Abe, but this is really quite laughable. It feels like you simply took a template for ridiculing something, anything, and plugged in the Bard class features.
The DCs for all those "spells" that the Bardic Performances emulates scale with Bard Level, are perfectly mix and matchable, and most of the buff type things STACK with each other.
In particular your critique of Inspire Heroics amounts to picking on its name. +4 to AC and Saves, that stacks with almost anything, is a Huge ability. Show me any core spell or ability that does that. Foresight and Moment of Prescience are basically one use.
Inspire Courage - you point out how it's better than anything else, and that becomes a *problem*. Seriously - Inspire Courage, let it go - 5 rounds is plenty for most battles. If not, sing it again.
Sure it's a huge ability, that you are giving to one person, using a standard action each round to do.
It's not that good, compared to Holy Aura, Cloak of Chaos, Spell immunity greater, Binding, Iron Body, Dragon Form 3, Horrid Wilting, Sneak attack damage + 7d6, Mind Blank, Prismatic Wall, etc.
It just doesn't compare -- which would you rather do? Spend your standard action giving 1 other person a + 4 dodge bonus and bonus to save throws, OR one of the above list?
Morale, and competence Bonuses don't stack, and even if they did you still have to spend a standard action to give someone just one of those bonuses, which means you can't give them the other ones.
Good Hope, one of the few bard only spells does the exact same thing as a fifth level bards Inspire courage, for longer with less work. It's even the same bonus type so it doesn't even stack with Inspire Courage.
Inspire Competence is just another name for Aid Other loudly.
These abilities are jokes and bad ones so yes I do ridicule them.
Morale, and competence Bonuses don't stack,
Just to clarify by that I mean Morale doesn't stack with morale bonuses, and competence bonuses don't stack with competence bonuses.
Also:
Aid grants the target a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and saves against fear effects, plus temporary hit points equal to 1d8 + caster level (to a maximum of 1d8+10 temporary hit points at caster level 10th).
Bless fills your allies with courage. Each ally gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and on saving throws against fear effects.
(by the way bless lasts a minute per level, the cleric spends a standard action to start it, the bard takes a standard action every round to keep his morale bonus up...)
Here's an anti-bard (and barbarian) spell that clerics get at level 3:
Calm Emotion
This spell automatically suppresses (but does not dispel) any morale
bonuses granted by spells such as bless, good hope, and rage, as well as negating a bard’s ability to inspire courage or a barbarian’s rage ability.
Heroes feast which clerics get at level 11 is directly comparable to Soothing Song which bards get at level
Every creature partaking of the feast is cured of all sickness and nausea, receives the benefits of both neutralize poison and remove disease, and gains 1d8 temporary hit points +1 point per two caster levels (maximum +10) after imbibing the nectar-like beverage that is part of the feast. The ambrosial food that is consumed grants each creature that partakes a +1 morale bonus [/b] on attack rolls and Will saves and a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against poison and fear effects for 12 hours.
Heroism and greater heroism give morale bonuses, and lasts 10 mins (1 min for greater heroism) a level take a standard action to cast (wizards get the first at level 5, and the second at level 11, and these spells provide bonuses that are as good as or better than what a bard's inspire courage can do at that level):
This spell imbues a single creature with great bravery and morale in
battle. The target gains a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks.
This spell functions like heroism, except the creature gains a +4 morale bonus on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks, immunity to fear effects, and temporary hit points equal to your caster level (maximum 20).
When I compare Inspire heroism to Holy Aura and the like I realise the bonuses stack, but which would you rather have? Holy Aura (and the others like it) grant more bonuses and don't take additional actions from the caster and can affect 1 creature per level as opposed to Inspire heroism's single target. They arrive on both classes ability list at the same time but Holy aura and its ilk are clearly the better pick.
By the way: All bardic abilities activated by Perform (oratory) and Perform (comedy) are language dependant meaning if you don't speak what they understand then you have nil affect. Better add linguistics to that list of skills you need.
To sum up my main point, What would you rather have as a fifth party member -- A bard, or another wizard/cleric/rogue/etc. ?
I love bards, they are one of the neatest ideas in D&D, but they don't work, they are the lowest of the low on the power level charts. I just want to see them be better.
This is a really solid critique of the class. However, I disagree about spells. I really don't think they're underpowered, as I don't think they're meant to be that important of a feature. Yes, the bard who wants to be casting up there with the wizard or cleric will fall flat, but the bard who picked cure spells, feather fall, etc. can be a party saver at just the right time, or can be throwing around a few extra buffs that are much-appreciated by the lowly fighter.
One place I really agree with you is bardic performance. It just needs...more. The abilities available shouldn't be outclassed by spells available to the bard at the same level. The two areas I feel bards need to be actually outdoing the other classes are morale bonuses(bards need a boost, the other classes need a nerf) and charming/fascinating (it's music for God's sake). But I think the way to do this is actually to give a serious increase to the songs that do these things.
Another thing that I feel needs to be stressed in performance is spontaneity. At early-mid levels, a cleric needs time to protect the party from spells or energy attacks. A wizard needs preparation to get the group mobile enough to escape. But, in the majority of games I've seen, such preparation isn't always possible. So, give the bard energy resist songs and movement songs, and they could be saving the entire party (even if these abilities are less effective than druid or cleric spells of the same level). I'd prefer the Bard be a utility class in this respect.
Inspire Courage - you point out how it's better than anything else, and that becomes a *problem*. Seriously - Inspire Courage, let it go - 5 rounds is plenty for most battles. If not, sing it again.
How in the world did I say it was better than anything else? IT IS WORSE THAN EVERYTHING ELSE!
It takes more time,
It takes continuing actions,
It can be countered with a level 2 spell,
It can be replaced with spells that are just as good as it at all levels,
It requires not being silenced or in an area of silence,
It's a spell-like ability so anti magic and the like works on it!
Bless is better it lasts a min at first level, 10 rounds , Good hope does everything inspire courage does and lasts longer with fewer actions need to sustain it, and will continue working even in silenced areas . Greater heroism lasts longer and gives almost equilevant bonuses and affects fewer targets.
Veledran,
I feel that the bardic spells are like a cleric's domains or turn undead feature, the druid's wild shape or the paladin's immunities. They are not central I agree with you, but they are significant, and bards are full spell casters which shows their magic should be potent even if not as great as the other full casters.
I'm not asking for a bunch of fireballs here, I'm asking to be allowed to cast spells within 2 levels of when everyone else (even sorcerers!) can cast them.
Heck lets look at the closest classes to the bard in spell lists: The cleric and the Druid. Both get the same Hit Dice and BAB progression, both get the fastest spell progression in the game, both get other useful and easy to use class abilities, and both have better defensive abilities thanks to better armor and shields. They get many of the same spells eariler than the bard, indeed eariler than the bard and if it is a spell they get at the same time as the bard, their save DC's are better becuase it's a higher level spell.
IF the bard isn't a skill monkey (and he isn't) and he isn't a front line combatant (and he isn't) and he doesn't have great abilities against magic users and flankers like the monk (and the bard doesn't) then what he does have needs to be quite frankly pretty hard core, and what he brings to the table isn't.
So what does he bring? Musical buffing (most spells use the same bonus type and last longer easier) and magic abilities, now magic has been a core part of bards from the beginning. In 1st ed they choose their spells from the druids list. In 2nd ed they got them from the wizards list. Both of these lists were/are potent and carry a lot of great spells. Now the bard is stuck with utility spells that everyone else has had for a long time when he gets them. The few spells he should be better at he gets at about the same time everyone else gets them , even though the spells are higher level for the others (and thus better becuase of higher DC) becuase of the bard's very slow magic progression.
Something else, since the start of the bard, he has been able to cast spells in chain mail so I would like to see him given medium armor without spell failure, but not shields bards haven't ever gotten good with shields and I don't think that should change.
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Inspire Competence: Give someone a + 2 competence bonus on some skills as long as you concentrate for up to 2 minutes. That's it, it doesn't scale, it doesn't affect more than one target and it takes a standard action. Why don't you, you know, just aid other? (maybe becuase of a lack of skills yourself, to bad you needed two perform skills to get all these abilities).
This one kinda jumped out at me.
Inspire Competence *seriously* needs to be better than Aid Other. I'm also very fine with it being usable for more than 2 minutes, and for the Bard to be able to maintain the effect *while performing that other skill himself.* Work chants, sea chanties, etc. have a long tradition, and it should be perfectly viable for a low-level Bard to be able to help a group of farmers plant the fields, or a group of dwarven ironsmiths hammer out weapons, or a bunch of whistling halfling villagers build a trenchworks to defend their village from the impending hobgoblin raid with a 'work chant.'
It's fine if it starts out like Aid Other (+2 bonus), but affects the Bard and the people he's inspiring, as that's already far superior to Aid Other (which takes away your action and only affects on other person), and progresses to give a +4 or whatever at higher levels (and affect more targets, until a midlevel Bard could be giving a +2 or +4 bonus to Profession (sailor) checks for the entire crew, working alongside them).
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Maybe link it to how many ranks a bard gets in perform?
That's a thought. +2 morale bonus for every 5 ranks, rounded down? (So +2 at 1st level, +4 at 6th level, +6 at 11th level and +8 at 16th level.)
The number of people affected could also be rank-based (1 person other than self for each rank, allowing a 1st level Bard to only be the tiniest bit better than Aid Other, as he can 'Aid Other' himself and one other person, at the same time).
Or it could work like that, but with an addition at 1st level, say Rank +3 (similar to the class skill bonus), allowing a 1st level Bard with 1 rank in Perform to affect four other people, as well as himself, and a 20th level Bard with 20 ranks in Perform to affect 23 other people, as well as himself. The ability to give four other people (plus himself) an 'Aid Other' bonus of +2 to a skill, such as Profession (sailor) to get a boat safely ashore, could be neat and thematic for a 1st level Bard.
Although, this particular Aid Other use should probably be able to be extended to other rolls, that aren't explicitly skill roles, such as Fortitude rolls for a Forced March. *Not saving throws or attack rolls or damage rolls,* those belong to other Performance categories, but just the stuff that fits the theme, since there is no 'walking / running' skill to go with the Climb, Swim, Fly skills for non-traditional movement types (although, arguably, there probably *should* be a skill for land-based movement...).
I like the ideas and justifications for improving Inspire Competence. It is rather odd that a magical special ability would be identical to something everyone can do anyway. I also like the idea of the bard being able to inspire a group whether as a drum march or a sea chanty.
Great idea!
Calm Emotion's effects go away the moment the caster ends the spell/ stops concentration. If the caster wants to tie themselves up for a few rounds with a level 2 spell to negate a bard's morale bonuses, I'd say that's an even trade off. Heck, if I were playing a bard, I'd pause for a couple rounds and start up again to drain the caster of another 2nd level spell and keep the caster busy.
It's a great way to tie up the resources of the opposition. Better an enemy wizard does that than decide to cast a damage spell my character's way.
Yeah my problem with this is that a level 3 cleric can kill a level 16 bard's inspire courage with no caster level check or anything.
That's right, a level 3 cleric can take away a level 16 bard's ability to give you a + 4 to hit, skill checks, and damage rolls.
That shouldn't be the case.
Performance based
Big note right up front: Go read Calm Emotions. Yeah that's right one 2nd level bard or cleric spell entirely ruins all morale bonuses including inspire courage!Speaking of which lets look at inspire courage:
Standard action to start and continue lasts for 5 rounds after you finish using standard actions to continue it. Gives a + 1 bonus at first level. This increases to + 2 at fifth level, + 3 at 11th level to finally rest at + 4 at 16th level.However A first level bless spell is also a morale bonus all it doesn't do is grant the damage bonus, everything else is the same as a basic inspire courage just without all the extra standard actions. Good hope which you get at level 7 (it's a third level spell) will do everything that the inspire courage will do and doesn't take extra actions to use. After 11th level no one can get as many people with one ability with as big as a morale bonus. So guess what everyone is going to want you to do every round as a standard action from level 11 on?
This wasn't true in 3,5, and it's not true in Beta Pathfinder. It's a standard action to start performing, and there are (easily avoidable) limits to what you can do, but only Fascinate and Inspire Competence actually require concentration.
"Inspire Courage (Su): A bard with 1 or more ranks in a
Perform skill can use his performance to inspire courage
in his allies (including himself ), bolstering them against
fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected,
an ally must be able to percieve the bard’s performance.
The effect lasts for as long as the ally percieves the bard‘s
performance and for 5 rounds thereafter. An affected
ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against
charm and fear effects and a +1 morale bonus on attack and
weapon damage rolls. At 5th level, and every six bard levels
thereafter, this bonus increases by 1 (+2 at 5th, +3 at 11th,
and +4 at 17th). Inspire courage is a mind-affecting ability.
A bard can use this bardic performance ability utilizing
any type of Perform."
I've always seen that read as the bard must continue performing (and be seen/heard) for the bonus to keep going (it does last an extra 5 rounds), and that performing is a standard action. After all it takes a bit more than a free action to stay on key, keep on time, remember then next part and such. I was a tuba and clarinet player in high school (both marching and symphonic) and I can tell you for a fact that it takes at least a standard action to have any form of a coherent performance coming out of any musical instrument. I imagine the same is true for singing, acting, and a comedy routine.
IF I'm wrong here then we need some clarification from the designers, becuase that is not worded very well.
I've always seen that read as the bard must continue performing (and be seen/heard) for the bonus to keep going (it does last an extra 5 rounds), and that performing is a standard action. [snip]
IF I'm wrong here then we need some clarification from the designers, becuase that is not worded very well.
Reposted from another thread:
Starting a bardic performance effect is a standard action. Some bardic performance abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using a bardic performance ability that doesn’t require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by magic word (such as wands).
Performances requiring concentration: Fascinate, Inspire Competence, Suggestion, Song of Freedom, Soothing Performance. Countersong also seems to require an action every round, even though it doesn't specifically state that concentration is required.
Thus, except for starting their performance, a bard can fight or taking other actions (except as noted) while using their more combat oriented effects such as inspire courage.
Still, given how many people operate under the same assumption as you, I'm thinking it's safe-to-say that the wording needs to be clarified so that players and DMs quit gimping bards. I was honestly surprised that some of my friends from Georgia actually like playing bards when I found out they'd been artificially limiting them in this way!
Well, being a musician, I can certainly understand why it should take a standard action to perform well enough to inspire anything, but it does really cause problems for the bard...
Looking at the bard with the ability to inspire courage and do something else (except casting spells) does change the balance issue quite drastically. I would still like the adjusted spell progression in that case, and some more choices for different types of performances, but most of my other complaints about the bard go away with that little bit of information about inspire courage.
It does need clarification on all the performance types, maybe a line that says, "This ability does not require a standard action to maintain."
However on further thought, if the bard doesn't need to do something to maintain concentration, what's to stop him from just playing almost all day at first level to maintain the bonuses without losing his only performance of the day?
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It does need clarification on all the performance types, maybe a line that says, "This ability does not require a standard action to maintain."
Requiring the Bard to at least maintain the music as a free action or swift action on their turn might make sense. If the Bard gets stunned, dazed or nauseated, or takes a full-round action, he might become unable to maintain even the limited concentration required to keep up the performance...
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interesting Abraham...It does show some 'shortcomings' of the Bard.
Id like to see the class become more of a generalist in some aspects.
Stats- Not much that we can do to change this. I like Cha being the Casting ability for the Bard, Its his thing. So Ill move on...
Hit Dice- As you say spot on for what the Bard needs.
Base Attack Bonus- Ditto...this is what is needed.
Save Throws- Saves make sense ...no change needed.
Skill Points- Give the Bard 8 skill points like the Rogue. He won't be outshining the Rogue in the Roguish areas, but those extra skill points will make him more valuable.
Class Skills- Agreed Re-think the class skills a tiny bit, not much. Just look at the whole 'Jack of all trade's' thing, and make him almost match the rogue, but not quite.
Spells
Here is where I think a good deal of work could be done. My thoughts. 1. Allow a Bard to have a spell book of spells he knows, (keep the levels the same and when he gets them...but: allow him to learn spells from ALL classes (Cleric/Druid/Wizard)...it wont unbalance play, because he will get less spells and not as quick. But his spells will be varied and he will be able to fill a partial roll of any spellcasting class.
2. Give him a list of spells he can cast spontaneously without learning...Maybe: any Enchantment/Charm based spell can be spontaneously cast by the Bard.
This would make him far more valuable I think.
Class Abilities non performance/Performance based- It was mentioned before, move The Jack of all trades ability down levels so he picks it up around 5th level. Then Give him 2 more new abilities....One at 1st, and one at 10th. Finally a better 20th level.
for 1st: Quick Thinker- 1X day with an additional time of usage at each of 4 levels. (2X at 5th-8th/3X at 9th-12th etc...) The Bard can Raise the initiative rolls of the entire party by 1+ Cha bonus....allowing the party to respond quicker because of the bards quick mind.
10th: Break Summons- 1X a day +1 at every 3rd level after (2X at 13th/3x at 16th etc...a Bard may break a summons by strumming/playing discordant music with a successful Performance check at a DC of 15+ the level of the spell. This is effectively a dispel magic on any/all summons spell in a 60 foot radius of the Bard. Breaking the summons and sending the summoned creatures home.
20th: Alter Summons- A Bard may change the allegiance of summoned creatures with a succesful Performance check The DC is 25+ the level of the summoning. The Summoned Creatures become controlled by the Bard
(note on the two later abilities...DC's may be adjusted, but you get what Im going for.)
These are suggestions that I think would go a long way towards making the Bard both more desirable and playable.
I personally really like that quick thinker idea. I'm not so sure about the summoning one's though, conjuration just doesn't seem like a bardic magical specialty to me. I can understand the thought of countering spells with music that doesn't bother me as much, but narrowing it down to just summons seems a little odd and out of flavor.
The circumstances are easy to set up:
Party comes charging in just a split second too late to stop a bunch of low level cultists from summoning a balor. The balor has just stepped through the portal, and the portal is still open. At this point the party has several goals:
1. Stop the balor, who is screaming for their blood.
2. Close the portal before more demons come through.
3. Negate the cultists, maybe finding a larger cult/leader has sat them up to summon the balor.
Which of this group is the PC's going to worry about? The Balor, while those low level cultist, lead by an equally lowly 3rd level cleric stops the bard's music hoping that without it the party will have a harder time, and the cleric knows that he has no hope of surviving without the balor, and anything else that comes through.
Beyond that even if it something that shouldn't happen, it still shouldn't even be a possibility.
I can see what you are saying Neosamurai, it's just the fact it's there like that irks me, same with the silence spell. Personally I would land it on the barbarian and hold it there, or keep summoning more help while the balor handles the party.
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I would really like to see the bonus types from bless, aid, greater heroism, and heroism, and prayer changed to sacred or profane bonuses (with the two types cancelling each other) and morale bonuses being left to the bard.
I've always thought it should be divine aid for just that reason.
I understand why good hope is a morale bonus too, but it doesn't make sense to me to give a class an ability and then two levels later give it a spell that's better than the class ability for another 4 levels.
It seems to me they grab some 'ok' abilities for the bard, then grabbed spells for the bard, and didn't look and see if the abilities and spells were compatable or even comparible.
Take the fascinate bard performance ability compared to the hypnotism/ hypnotic pattern spells. The spells are clearly superior becuase they can be use in any circumstances, and affect more creatures easier (granted there is a HD limit, as opposed to a straight number of creatures). At low to mid level it just doesn't make sense most of the time.
Well that's not a bad thought but then the bard is driven a little bit more from being useful or unique as 'everyone' would then have class abilities that buff.
(Not trying to be a downer, it's really a decent idea, but these are the problems I run into when looking at it.)
oh, I agree that it could take away a bit of the motivational strength of the bard if not handled right (although it has been argued already that spells can do the same thing and might do it better). By making bless a class feature/ability, we can take the spells that don't make sense for mystic morale modifiers and give them to the bard making the class' focus a little bit stronger in that regard. It gives us a benchmark of what to build up if the bard's strengths are truly his motivational abilities.
Actually that's the exact argument I'm making on the bardic musics all along.
Now I see what you mean about transfering them all over to the bard instead of letting the cleric have them, but at that point we can roll them all into the bard's abilities aready becuase that's what the various 'inspires' do, and it breaks backwards compatability to take the spells away from the cleric (which still wouldn't hurt my feelings).
On further thought on the bardic music issue, I would like to see inspire courage go up to + 5 (that's above what even the best morale spells can do, and would add more 'pop' to the bard), and that the other 'inspires' should start where the spell does but then scale upward afterwards. As it is you can get inspire competence/greatness/heroism right now and have no reason to advance past the point of the one you wanted becuase they don't scale.
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I personally really like that quick thinker idea. I'm not so sure about the summoning one's though, conjuration just doesn't seem like a bardic magical specialty to me. I can understand the thought of countering spells with music that doesn't bother me as much, but narrowing it down to just summons seems a little odd and out of flavor.
In my head I can see the bard playing a few discordant chords and the binding magic that broght the summoned slips away
I can picture it in role playing, and it ties into the bard having summons magic in a gamist way, and on top of that gives the bard something 'unique' that others cant really be better at.
However on further thought, if the bard doesn't need to do something to maintain concentration, what's to stop him from just playing almost all day at first level to maintain the bonuses without losing his only performance of the day?
He can't maintain it if he cast Daze (the one decent 0 level besides Flare) he can cast in combat to affect the enemy.
Daze would daze the foe; while Flare gives -1 hit (which helps a little).
But otherwise, there is no Rule reason he has to stop.