Empower Spell

[Kalyth]

Ok I was just reading Empower spell and realized that we have not been running it as it is written.

The feat states that it increase the random variable of a spell by x1.5. I think we all understand this in relation to say a fire ball. (1d6 per level x 1.5, 10th level caster = 10d6 x 1.5 = damage with empower.

I think we all agree that Empower would not work on Heal as it heals a flat 10 hitpoints per level and there is no random variable (I hate that it doesn't work on heal by the way. :( grrr )

However where the problem comes up is with say Cure Moderate Wounds. By the discription of Empower it stats that it increase the random variable of the spell by 50%. So Cure Moderate Wounds cast by a 10th level caster would heal 2d8+10 hitpoints. If we Empower this it would heal (2d8 x1.5)+10 hitpoints. Note that the +10 for caster level is not multiplied as it is not part of the random variable. so if we rolled 2 4's on our 2d8 we would get a total of 8 x 1.5 = 12 + 10 = 22 Hitpoints healed rather than 4 + 4 + 10 X 1.5 = 27 HPs.

I dont think this is what was meant by those that wrote the Empower Feat.

Any thoughts?

[deinol]

Kalyth wrote:

I don't think this is what was meant by those that wrote the Empower Feat.

Any thoughts?

I think this is exactly what was meant. This hasn't changed since 3.0, if it were a mistake it would have been corrected by now.

That isn't to say that allowing it to multiply static numbers as well is not a reasonable and valid house rule.

[Raymond Gellner]

I alway thought that empower spell should affect all numeric effects, not just the variable ones.

For one thing, how can someone create an ability booster magic item with a +6 modifier without empower spell and the respective ability boost spell (fox's cunning, bull's strength, etc.)? Without the benefit of empower spell, the maximum bonus on these magic items would be +4.

[KaeYoss]

Raymond Gellner wrote:

I alway thought that empower spell should affect all numeric effects, not just the variable ones.

For one thing, how can someone create an ability booster magic item with a +6 modifier without empower spell and the respective ability boost spell?

Same way they can create any magic item whose effects cannot be replicated with magic.

For example, how do you create a flaming burst weapon?

[Kalyth]

Raymond Gellner wrote:

I alway thought that empower spell should affect all numeric effects, not just the variable ones.

For one thing, how can someone create an ability booster magic item with a +6 modifier without empower spell and the respective ability boost spell (fox's cunning, bull's strength, etc.)? Without the benefit of empower spell, the maximum bonus on these magic items would be +4.

Few magic items exaclty duplicate the spells requried to create them. Generally the spells require are just the thematicly closes effects to what the item will do. This allows a wizard to create an item that can do something that he actually cant accomplish with a spell and I actually like that.

[Kalyth]

deinol wrote:

Kalyth wrote:

I don't think this is what was meant by those that wrote the Empower Feat.

Any thoughts?

I think this is exactly what was meant. This hasn't changed since 3.0, if it were a mistake it would have been corrected by now.

That isn't to say that allowing it to multiply static numbers as well is not a reasonable and valid house rule.

Wasnt meaning it was an error I just think it is kind of odd. It hurts spells like Produce flame and Magic Missile which have damage factors that are not straight dice but rather dice +X damage or +X damage per level. An Empowered produce flame would only empower the 1d6 and not the entire 1d6+5 like-wise an empowered magic missile doing 3d4+3 would only empower the 3d4 and not the +3. Just seem like they should either reword empower to account for those spells or readjust spell damage so they all work on the same formate of straight dice or dice +X points. Just seems odd that one damage spell would benefit more form empower than another similar damage spell simply because the creator of that spell decided to have it do 1d6 +1 point per level rather than 1d6 per two levels etc...

[Brett Blackwell]

Actually, Magic Missile is sortof a rarity in this case. I specifically remember it being stated somewhere that an Empower Spell affects the whole damage of Magic Missile because the +1 is part of the random number and not modified by caster level. I'll have to dig around to find where I read that....

[KaeYoss]

I can see it go either way. The ruling that only the dice get multiplied makes sense when the main source of damage is that fixed number. Say you have a spell that deals 1d6 + 1/level. In the first couple of levels, the d6 will really mean something, but later, it will be the difference between 21 and 26. Letting that go to 31 - 39 instead of 21 - 29 would be like allowing finger of death to be empowered for 15 damage per level.