I'm planning out a monk character, and ideally I'd like to keep as many monk levels as possible (out of principle). But the problem is that after level 12, your combat ability just falls farther and farther behind, and there's nothing really cool to compensate.
Level 13: Diamond Soul -- Cool in theory, but your saves are pretty high anyways, and it gives friendly spells a chance to fail too. In fact, your teammates are probably worse at bypassing spell resistance than the (higher level) BBEG.
Level 14: Bonus feat (from a skimpy list), extra slow fall (at a level where everyone could buy a dozen rings of Feather Falling if they wanted to)
Level 15: Quivering Palm -- Once a week?! Give me a break...
Level 16: Ki pool [adamantine] (at a level where everyone could have a golf bag full of adamantine weapons, if they wanted), more extra-useless slow fall
Level 17: Timeless body (nice flavour, but doesn't usually come up in campaigns), Tongue of the Sun and Moon (clerics and wizards are getting 9th level spells, and you're getting a level 3 spell)
Level 18: Bonus feat (from a skimpy list), more slow fall...
Level 19: Empty body (awesome ability...but I had to wait until level 19 to get it!)
Level 20: Perfect self (useless DR, Raise Dead doesn't work on you), awesome mastery of slow falling!!!1!
Your unarmed strike damage and AC go up, too, but there's a magic item specifically designed to allow you to skip out of monk school early (Monk's Robe/Belt).
I mostly agree with you, however one thing...
"Unlike other outsiders, the monk can still be brought back from the dead as if she were a member of her previous creature type."
You can still be raised from the dead even with Perfect Self.
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With regards to Slow Fall, I'd do the following:
At 5th level, you can prevent any damage as long as you are near a wall. This is the same level a Wizard can have Featherfall, which can activate no matter what's near you.
At 9th level, you can prevent any damage from a fall no matter what's around you (you dissipate the energy somehow). This is the level a Wizard can do overland flight.
Keep in mind that a Wizard can still cast Featherfall on someone/something ELSE as an immediate action, so there's still value beyond the Monk self ability.
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Not sure about the rest, would have to think more on that...
I like the idea of making the Slowfall power much more useful early on. After all, a ring of featherfall is a measly 2,200 gp!
I agree more needs to be done to boost the monks at higher level. The abilities they get are not very impressive compared to some of the other classes. I like the idea I read earlier about giving the monk talents and letting them pick from a list of abilities. This way they can pick and choose more of a direction that there monk wants to go in. Me personally I would drop diamond soul, timeless body, and tongue of the sun and moon and replace with more useful combat oriented abilities.
Diamond Soul, Timeless Body and Tongue of the Sun & Moon are the cool powers that are fairly low on effect but high on style. Let's not lose stylish powers please!
But the problem is that after level 12, your combat ability just falls farther and farther behind, and there's nothing really cool to compensate.
As you know, I agree. The best class abilities past monk12 are the increased unarmed damage and increased AC. Both of these are available from Monk's robes. I see little point in taking more than 15 monk levels. And if you're not interested in maxing out damage and AC, monk12 is all you ever need.
The problem is even worse when taking into account that the second best monk feat (after improved natural attack) is only achievable through multi-classing - Improved Vital Strike has a BAB +16 requirement. I'll discuss this in more detail when we get to feats. I mentioned it here as there is the option to give monks access to Vital Strike and Improved Vital Strike through the bonus feats. Opening up IVS at monk18 would lessen the need to multi-class. It take a monk12/fighter7 to get access to IVS.
Diamond Soul has no effect on your teammates casting spells on you. A creature with SR can always choose to let something through, just like you can always choose to fail a save.
No, you can't. You can lower your SR for a round as a standard action, but you're not going to do that in the middle of combat.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellResistance
They should make dropping SR more useful. Maybe make it a swift/immediate/free action to drop it for one full round, which then restores itself on your next action?
I've given the monk a paladin-like "ki power" (spells) list, except spontaneous casting, then taken all that stuff and turned it into ki powers (unless otherwise noted, self-only):
This allows us to add options to the monk at will, by simply expanding their "ki powers" (spells) list (divine favor, shield of faith, divine power, bull's strength, greater magic weapon seem like good options). At higher levels, we can add 3rd and 4th level powers that are actually useful in combat, and make you want to keep gaining monk levels.
This also saves pages of class features descriptions. The hardcover rulebook already looks like it'll be > 500 pp., so saving space is actually an issue in this case.
I like the idea of the monk as a ki "caster", though there is the worry of going too far and perhaps overstating the amount of powers compared to the amount of ki available.
I like the idea of the monk as a ki "caster", though there is the worry of going too far and perhaps overstating the amount of powers compared to the amount of ki available.
Instead of working off a "ki pool," we'd give them spells known and spells per day. Why re-invent the wheel with a complex ki point system when the spells system is already in-place, and is already used for bards, rangers, paladins, etc.?
I see. They'd be a spontaneous Wis-based caster, themed around agility and personal resilience, with an internal power source, much like psionics?
Well, if you insist, but I was thinking more about GURPS when I typed that.
I see. They'd be a spontaneous Wis-based caster, themed around agility and personal resilience, with an internal power source, much like psionics?
That was my thought, but Mr. Bulmahm just nixed it on another thread. Many people, I guess, prefer the game designer to pick their spells for them... and if I had to pick someone to do that for me, well, Jason would be the man. Personally, I like the options that GURPS affords you, and kind of wish Paizo would write adventures for that system (if they did, I'd probably have been playing that instead of 3.5).
God I haven't played GURPS since high school in the late eighties. Don't know if they ever updated it but back then it was horrible. Kirth from previous posts you seem to want to just give spells to everyone or make everyones abilities the same as a corresponding spell. That to me seems to much trying to cut and paste things so it fits in the box rather then making the box bigger or a differant shape. I want to see the classes with differant things like, talents for the rogues, rage powers for the barbarian and ki powers for the monk. The more those abilities stay away from duplicating spells the better. It's better to have something fresh and new then the same thing dressed up a differant way.
I want to see the classes with differant things like, talents for the rogues, rage powers for the barbarian and ki powers for the monk. The more those abilities stay away from duplicating spells the better. It's better to have something fresh and new then the same thing dressed up a differant way.
I can sympathize. But, really, "abundant step" isn't new; it's a spell called dimension door. Ditto for 90% of their other abilities. If it quacks like a duck...
This is something that I had developed for a player once, I based it off of the Monk base class, it could probably be adapted/absorbed/improved to help the monk out:
Rieki Adept
************************************************** ***********
HD: d8
BAB: average
Fort: Good
Will: Good
Ref: Good
Skills: Concentration, Climb, Jump, Tumble, Heal, Knowledge(arcana, religion, history), Sense motive, Listen, Spot, Search, Swim, Craft, Diplomacy, Profession, Survival
Skill Points: 4 + Int Mod (x4 at first level)
Weapon Proficiency: Staff, Club, Sling
Armor Proficiency: None
************************************************** ***********
Level --- Ability
1 --- Unarmed Strike, Stunning Blow, Healing Touch, AC Bonus
2 --- Divine Grace
3 --- Divine health
4 --- Improve Ally
5 --- Ki Strike (Magic)
6 --- Remove Affliction
7 --- Reduce Opponent
8 --- Restore Body
9 --- Masterful healing
10 --- Bestow Affliction
11 --- Diamond Body
12 --- Death Ward, Fortifying Touch
13 --- Diamond Soul
14 --- Envigorating Touch
15 --- Quivering Palm
16 --- Enervation Strike
17 --- Timeless body
18 --- Restore to Life
19 ---
20 --- Perfect Self
************************************************** *****************
Unarmed Strike --- The Rieki Adept gains this feature with the damage increases the same as a monk. The Rieki Adept does not gain the Flury of blows ability.
Stunning Blow --- The Rieki Adept gains this feature in the same manner as the monk. In addition everytime the Rieki Adept gains one of the following abilities he gains another use of his stunning blow ability: Healing Touch, Improve Ally, Remove Affliction, Reduce Opponent, Restore Body, Bestow Affliction, Fortifying Touch, Envigorating Touch, Enervation Strike, and Restore to Life. Activiating any of those abilities expends a use of the Rieki Adept's Stunning Blow ability (i.e. A first level rieki adept with a wisdom of 10 has 3 uses of stunning blow per day, he uses his healing touch ability which counts against 1 of those uses so now he has 2 left for that day.)
Healing Touch --- The Rieki Adept as a standard action may spend 1 stunning blow attempt to touch himself or an ally and restore HP equal to an unarmed strike damage roll, he does not add his strength to this roll instead modifying it with his charisma (i.e. a first level Rieki adept would restore d6 + CHA mod HP).
AC Bonus --- Same as the monk ability.
Divine Grace --- Same as the paladin ability.
Divine health --- Same as the paladin ability.
Improve Ally --- As a standard action a Rieki Adept may use a stunning blow attempt to touch himself or an ally and boost either STR, CON, or DEX by half of his unarmed strike dice size for a number of rounds equal to his Rieki Adept level (i.e. at level 4 a Rieki adept has a d8 unarmed strike dice so he would boost an himself or an ally by 4 points for 4 rounds).
Remove Affliciton -- As a standard action a Rieki Adept may use a stunning blow attempt to heal himself or an ally of 1 of the following conditions per stunning fist attempt spent (only 1 attempt per round means multiple afflicitions take multiple rounds). Blindness, Deafness, Disease, Poison, Paralysis, or Fear.
Reduce Opponent -- As a standard action a Rieki Adept may use a stunning blow attempt to deal ability damage to a STR, CON, or DEX by equal to half of his normal damage roll without any other modifiers with a melee touch attack (i.e. A level 7 Rieki Adept makes a melee touch attack rolls his d8 gets a 6 and does 3 points of ability damage to either his opponent's STR, CON, or DEX).
Restore Body --- As a standard action a Rieki Adept may spend 1 stunning blow attempt to touch himself or an ally and restore Ability Damage for one stat equal to an half of an unarmed strike damage roll, he does not modify this roll in anyway (i.e. an 8 level Rieki adept would restore 1/2d10 Abiltiy Damage for one stat).
Masterful Healing --- A Rieki Adept with this ability doubles his dice roll for using healing touch to see how much damage is healed.
Bestow Affliction --- Instead of stunning a foe with his stunning fist a Rieki Adept may instead bestow blindness, deafness, a Disease from the contiagion list paralysis or fear status. A Will save DC 10 + 1/2 Rieki Adept Class level + CHA mod, negates this effect. Paralysis blindness, deafness, or fear last a number of rounds equal to the Rieki Adept's Class level.
Diamond Body --- As the monk ability
Fortifying Touch --- The Rieki Adept as a standard action may spend 1 stunning blow attempt to touch himself or an ally and bestow damage reduction equal to 1/4 his Rieki Adept level rounded down / - (i.e. a 12 level Rieki Adept would bestow damage reduction 3/- A 16 level Rieki Adept would bestow 4/-).
Diamond Soul --- As the monk ability.
Envigorating Touch --- The Rieki Adept as a standard action may spend 1 stunning blow attempt to touch himself or an ally and restore 1 negative level per stunning Fist Attempt used.
Quivering Palm --- as the monk ability.
Enervation Strike --- As a standard action a Rieki Adept may use a stunning blow attempt to deal negative levels to an opponent equal to half of his normal damage roll without any other modifiers with a melee touch attack. A Will save DC 10 + 1/2 Rieki Adept Class level + CHA mod, negates this effect (i.e. A level 16 Rieki Adept makes a melee touch attack rolls his 2d8 gets a 6 total and does 3 negative levels to his opponent if they don't save).
Timeless Body --- as the monk ability.
Restore to Life --- A Rieki adept may spend 2 stunning blow attempts to raise someone from the dead as if using a resurrection spell this takes ten minutes and total concentration during this time. If attacked while attempting this action the Rieki Adept must make a concentration check DC 17 + damage taken or lose the stunning blow attempts and fail in the resurrection. This ability must be started within 1 min of the death of the creature.
Perfect Self --- as the monk ability.
How about adding the following powers to the existing beta monk:
14: Master's Strike
When performing a flurry of blows, you get one fewer attack (usually the one at your lowest bonus). Any other attacks that hit as part of this flurry of blows deal additional damage. Roll the damage dice for all such attacks twice, but do not multiply damage bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities, such as flaming, or precision-based damage, such as sneak attack. This bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit. You must choose to use this ability before rolling any of your attacks. This ability does not stack with the feats Vital Strike or Improved Vital Strike.
16: Master of Defense
When taking the actions fight defensively or total defense, the resulting dodge bonus to AC can be extended to a number of creatures or objects of your choice equal to your Wisdom bonus, though all must be within a 30-foot radius of you.
18: Grand Master's Strike
When performing a flurry of blows, you get two fewer attacks (usually the two at your lowest bonus). Any other attacks that hit as part of this flurry of blows deal additional damage. Roll the damage dice for all such attacks three times, but do not multiply damage bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities, such as f laming, or precision-based damage, such as sneak attack. This bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit. You must choose to use this ability before rolling any of your attacks. This ability does not stack with the feats Vital Strike or Improved Vital Strike.