RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Don't know if this matters to anyone but I've met Dr. Ayers twice and he seemed like a very warm, humane man.Who just happened to have lit a house on fire with a nine year old boy in it.
I'm sure he can be very charming. But it would still be nice if he seemed at all repentant for his deeds.
I don't recall that in his book.
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I don't recall that in his book.Don't know if this matters to anyone but I've met Dr. Ayers twice and he seemed like a very warm, humane man.Who just happened to have lit a house on fire with a nine year old boy in it.
I'm sure he can be very charming. But it would still be nice if he seemed at all repentant for his deeds.
John M. Murtagh's account of his life at the age of nine.
I don't know if Ayers personally set the bombs but he almost certainly approved of it.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Is this as nasty as The Republicans are responsible for 911 because every Republican Government since Regan financed the Taliban and did deals with Osama?But that is not the same as being "friendly" with an admited terrorist, as Obama admits to being with William Ayers. And it should be noted that Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton also funneled money to Afghan freedom fighters just like Reagan and Bush 41. So to say that it was only a Republican problem is not entirely accurate.
When did Nelson Mandela's name get removed from the terrorist watch list? Spring, wasn't it?
A picture of Bush with 'terrorist' Nelson Mandela.
I probably shouldn't get involved in this topic as I'm a Canadian and know little about Obama's connections with Ayers.
All I can say on the topic is that I found Dr. Ayers to be quite savvy and persuasive when it came to education policy in the U.S. If I was an up and coming politico, I might benefit from having a discussion with Dr. Ayers on education, which is what he does now. That Obama's kids and Dr. Ayer's kids go to the same private school and aren't in the public education system might mean that discussion was quite thick with situational irony.
Dr. Ayers was quite charismatic and witty. He knew his stuff. He presented options and opinions. I will admit that there was that kind of self-confidence (bordering on arrogance) to his radicalism that you only see from radicals who were born wealthy. Those of us in the left who grew up poor don't dislike the rich as much as want a more equitable distribution of wealth and more possibilities for social advancement.
I'm not trying to defend Dr. Ayers. Attacking Obama for this just seems like a cheap shot and low-hanging fruit.
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When did Nelson Mandela's name get removed from the terrorist watch list? Spring, wasn't it?
Ah, the wonders of bureaucracy. "Sorry about that Mr. Mandela. Someone put you and your political party on that list over 30 years ago. Don't worry though, we should be able to get you off in another 10 years or so."
Of course, I don't think Mandela ever organized bombings in his nation's capital, unlike Ayers.
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Says something about being Canadian...
If Canadians dont stand up for what is right...who will? PS I hear Canada has fallen to US occupation (apparently all the security forces are now employing "US Citizens"). Cant even fly to another Commonwealth country without a background check from the PENTAGON.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Says something about being Canadian...If Canadians dont stand up for what is right...who will? PS I hear Canada has fallen to US occupation (apparently all the security forces are now employing "US Citizens"). Cant even fly to another Commonwealth country without a background check from the PENTAGON.
Actually, we fell victim to their plot years ago when we didn't resist the invasion by The Simpsons. Once those adorable yellow, four-fingered aliens had a stranglehold on Gen-X (Cdn.) we did and said anything they wanted. After that, resistance was futile.
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So James Carville made this comment after the debate on ANDERSON 360:
"Now let me be clear here, if Obama goes in this race with a 5- point lead and losing this election, the consequences are -- bull, man. I mean I don't think that's going to happen, but I think it's a point to bring up.
But you stop and contemplate this country if Obama goes in and he has a consistent five point lead and loses the election, it would be very, very, very dramatic out there."
It seems to be getting a non-reaction in the press.
I wonder what the reaction would be if this comment had been made by, say, Sean Hannity or Ann Coulter.
I got a spam e-mail today suggesting, in a much subtler way than previously (You know the one I am talking about…the OMFG! Obama’s father was a Muslim and his name is only one character off from being Osama. He must be the anti-Christ!!!), that Obama and Osama are buds. I find it ironic that garbage like that just makes me want to vote for Obama to piss off the spammer.
Or maybe it was sent but the Obama camp knowing it would tick me off enough to make me vote for him.
Hmmmm.
I'll just point out, on the Ayers thing, that many Chicago conservatives and independents worked with Ayers on his philanthropic projects as well. Personally, I think it's a desperate attempt at character assassination. Combine this with the Rev. Wright thing and a Muslim name and it may be enough to raise some questions for some people.
And yes, McCain was never found guilty of wrongdoing in the Keeting 5 thing and even if he was involved, it was to a much lesser degree than the other four suspects. Both are pretty silly things to bring up, in my opinion.
So Ayers taking a $50 million grant and hiring Obama to distribute it organizations to further 'political radicalism' isn't something to be concerned about? If the money was going towards helping poor kids do better in traditional education this wouldn't be an issue.
Hell, ACORN is being investigated for widespread voter fraud in THIS ELECTION and were recipients of a large chunk of that grant money.
Why can't this country pass voter ID legislation?! Guess.
This is very much a current, and appropriate, issue.
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John M. Murtagh's account of his life at the age of nine.
I don't know if Ayers personally set the bombs but he almost certainly approved of it.
Indeed.
This paragraph sums up my views rather neatly:"Nobody should hold the junior senator from Illinois responsible for his friends’ and supporters’ violent terrorist acts. But it is fair to hold him responsible for a startling lack of judgment in his choice of mentors, associates, and friends, and for showing a callous disregard for the lives they damaged and the hatred they have demonstrated for this country. It is fair, too, to ask what those choices say about Obama’s own beliefs, his philosophy, and the direction he would take our nation."
Obama has repeatedly chosen to lie down with dogs yet he wonders why people are concerned about fleas.
Don't know if this matters to anyone but I've met Dr. Ayers twice and he seemed like a very warm, humane man.
How dare you interject reason, compassion and non-political sentiment into this muckslinging fiesta of overblown rhetoric and hyperbolic attacks? I condemn you and your underhanded tactics.
How do you expect the current American political system to survive if you insist on viewing people based on the content of their character rather than labels that can be glibly applied and torn off at a campaign's convenience?
/grin
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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This is so pathetic, it's laughable. It's hard to be offended by this level of poor reasoning and absolute lack of perspective, mostly I'm filled with pity for the people who have sunk to the level of making this type of argument (or worse yet, believing it actually makes any sense outside of their own partisan circles). I understand that it's hard for the extreme partisans to lose (and to be losing so badly), but it can be done with grace and dignity.
It's a damn shame too, because there are fiscal conservatives out there making solid arguments about what should be done about the actual problems actually facing the nation. Instead, we get this recycled tripe, which was stupid back when Michael Moore tried to make the same dumb argument about Bush's ties to the Bin Ladin family.
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Is this as nasty as The Republicans are responsible for 911 because every Republican Government since Regan financed the Taliban and did deals with Osama?
After some digging, I discovered that Gov. Palin was responding to an articlein the New York Times the day before her comments. I also noticed that Hillary brought up the issue as well during the primaries. Just thought someone should mention that.
Is this as nasty as The Republicans are responsible for 911 because every Republican Government since Regan financed the Taliban and did deals with Osama?After some digging, I discovered that Gov. Palin was responding to an articlein the New York Times the day before her comments. I also noticed that Hillary brought up the issue as well during the primaries. Just thought someone should mention that.
Hillary is a closet Republican. That's why she knows all about those Republican Conspiracies. :P
...mostly I'm filled with pity...
It would be pity if it were not the people who are/will be running this country.
None of the above for president!
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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This accusation reeks of desperation.
Mr. Ayers was active over 40 years ago as a radical. Today, he's working with charities in an Illinois neighborhood. There were a lot of people who were members of radical organizations in the 1960s and changed with the times into productive members of society. Ayers is one of these people.
Obama doesn't bring this relationship up because it has no bearing on his current run for the presidency. It's the same reason McCain doesn't talk about his participation in the Keating 5, or his relationships during the Iran Contra hearings as part of his campaign. They don't have relevance about what they are trying to accomplish today.
We need to look forward, not backwards.
Have I mentioned I am throwing my support behind Callous Jack?
He could not possibly be any worse that the current two options.
This accusation reeks of desperation.
Mr. Ayers was active over 40 years ago as a radical. Today, he's working with charities in an Illinois neighborhood. There were a lot of people who were members of radical organizations in the 1960s and changed with the times into productive members of society. Ayers is one of these people.
Obama doesn't bring this relationship up because it has no bearing on his current run for the presidency. It's the same reason McCain doesn't talk about his participation in the Keating 5, or his relationships during the Iran Contra hearings as part of his campaign. They don't have relevance about what they are trying to accomplish today.
We need to look forward, not backwards.
You might be right, but I can't help but think if the situation was reversed what would the left's view be. Imagine if McCain had an association with a right-wing nutcase that bombed abortion clinics 40 years ago. You wouldn't hear the end of it from the American press.
Have I mentioned I am throwing my support behind Callous Jack?
He could not possibly be any worse that the current two options.
How true. We need Jack to run. I'd vote for him even if he had a poodle as his VP.
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This accusation reeks of desperation.
Obama doesn't bring this relationship up because it has no bearing on his current run for the presidency. It's the same reason McCain doesn't talk about his participation in the Keating 5, or his relationships during the Iran Contra hearings as part of his campaign. They don't have relevance about what they are trying to accomplish today.
True, however Obama and groups supporting him have brought up both of these issues. Meanwhile, no one is expressing outrage over this. Perhaps both campaigns are desperate.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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You might be right, but I can't help but think if the situation was reversed what would the left's view be. Imagine if McCain had an association with a right-wing nutcase that bombed abortion clinics 40 years ago. You wouldn't hear the end of it from the American press.
I generally agree, though your characterization assumes facts that I doubt you would so easily accept were the shoe on the other foot. As has been pointed out, Hilary Clinton made the same dumb argument, and her die-hards believed it as stridently and blindly as those who do so today. I've also heard the same shoe-on-the-other-foot argument about Palin's husband and his association with the Alaskan successionist party (i.e., if it were Joe Biden's wife who had been a member of a group with similarly characterized goals and statements regarding America, it would be front page news). It's all b**@@!$#, designed to get emotional reaction and nothing else. The convoluted and attenuated train of "logic" required to reach the implication (Obama associates with terrorists, Palin associates with a group that hates America) of either statement is so ridiculous, that only the true believers or morons can follow it (or, rather, bypass it, as the case may be).
He could have poodles in his cabinet ;pHave I mentioned I am throwing my support behind Callous Jack?
He could not possibly be any worse that the current two options.
I want to be Secretary of Defense.
Only if I get the State Department.
Sorry, Lord Callous would only award those who are Jacks.
Only if I get the State Department.Sorry, Lord Callous would only award those who are Jacks.
Ahem.
Ahem.Only if I get the State Department.Sorry, Lord Callous would only award those who are Jacks.
Sorry, poodles as well. *pets Courtfool*
Sorry, poodles as well. *pets Courtfool*
Yap!
..that only the true believers or morons can follow it ...
That's ummm, let's see, 90% of the American population?
Hey Russ, I enjoyed them while they were there.
He could have poodles in his cabinet ;pHave I mentioned I am throwing my support behind Callous Jack?
He could not possibly be any worse that the current two options.
better than a poodle in the closet! ;)
Deleted a few posts, because you know what? I'm not going to convince anyone of anything.
Welcome to Apathyville. Here, have some coolaid.
I thought I would pass on this letter from the prosecutor of the Weather Underground. It is in today's NY Times.
"Re “Politics of Attack” (editorial, Oct. 8) and “Obama and ’60s Bomber: A Look Into Crossed Paths” (front page, Oct. 4):
As the lead federal prosecutor of the Weathermen in the 1970s (I was then chief of the criminal division in the Eastern District of Michigan and took over the Weathermen prosecution in 1972), I am amazed and outraged that Senator Barack Obama is being linked to William Ayers’s terrorist activities 40 years ago when Mr. Obama was, as he has noted, just a child.
Although I dearly wanted to obtain convictions against all the Weathermen, including Bill Ayers, I am very pleased to learn that he has become a responsible citizen.
Because Senator Obama recently served on a board of a charitable organization with Mr. Ayers cannot possibly link the senator to acts perpetrated by Mr. Ayers so many years ago.
I do take issue with the statement in your news article that the Weathermen indictment was dismissed because of “prosecutorial misconduct.” It was dismissed because of illegal activities, including wiretaps, break-ins and mail interceptions, initiated by John N. Mitchell, attorney general at that time, and W. Mark Felt, an F.B.I. assistant director.
William C. Ibershof
Mill Valley, Calif., Oct. 8, 2008"
I guess if the prosecutor is willing to move on the rest of us should be as well. I do not think that every association should poison our view of a candidate and the concern I have right now is that a scorched earth approach to campaigning makes future LEADERSHIP difficult. One of these 2 men will be President and have to lead during an economic crisis as well as at a time of war.
I think that each candidate has responsibilities to campaign with dignity. Both McCain and Obama are smart, honorable, and patriotic. They have a responsibility to try to win, but they also have a duty not to destroy the chance for leadership by the eventual victor.
This thing with Ayers isn't so much about Obama being a secret terrorist. It has more to do with honesty and judgement. Ayers hasn't been secret about his past and he doesn't regret his actions (see the Connie Chung interview where he and his co-weatherman wife both say as much). So for Obama to pretend that he didn't know about Ayers and Ayers' past is silly and it is disrespectful to most americans. He should have just come clean in the beginning and said, "Yeah I know the guy. I don't agree with alot of his views but on some we do agree and we were able to work together on those things. He was/is a leader in the political circles in that area and thus it was inevitable that I was going to work with him from time to time."
Instead Obama has tried to down play the interactions and has suggested he wasn't aware of Ayers' past. And that is where the issue comes in. Why lie (or exagerate as the case may be)? When you start doing that then you make people begin to wonder, what is he hiding?
And no, you don't have to be some kind of moron or fanatic to question why someone is being deceptive about their relationships with others if they have nothing to hide.
This thing with Ayers isn't so much about Obama being a secret terrorist. It has more to do with honesty and judgement. Ayers hasn't been secret about his past and he doesn't regret his actions (see the Connie Chung interview where he and his co-weatherman wife both say as much). So for Obama to pretend that he didn't know about Ayers and Ayers' past is silly and it is disrespectful to most americans. He should have just come clean in the beginning and said, "Yeah I know the guy. I don't agree with alot of his views but on some we do agree and we were able to work together on those things. He was/is a leader in the political circles in that area and thus it was inevitable that I was going to work with him from time to time."
Instead Obama has tried to down play the interactions and has suggested he wasn't aware of Ayers' past. And that is where the issue comes in. Why lie (or exagerate as the case may be)? When you start doing that then you make people begin to wonder, what is he hiding?
And no, you don't have to be some kind of moron or fanatic to question why someone is being deceptive about their relationships with others if they have nothing to hide.
Exactly. The dishonesty of the reverend Wright situation is something that bothers me as well. You mean to tell me that Obama sat in that church for that many years and never knew what Wright was about? That stretches credibility for me.
I think that each candidate has responsibilities to campaign with dignity. Both McCain and Obama are smart, honorable, and patriotic.
Two out of three ain't bad, right?
I think that each candidate has responsibilities to campaign with dignity. Both McCain and Obama are smart, honorable, and patriotic.Two out of three ain't bad, right?
Meatloaf would be proud.
Exactly. The dishonesty of the reverend Wright situation is something that bothers me as well. You mean to tell me that Obama sat in that church for that many years and never knew what Wright was about? That stretches credibility for me.
Remember one of Obama's selling points is that he is not a "typical politician". Too many of these comments about how he didn't know about these people (Wright, Ayers, whoever) come across as political coverup. That smells like the same "typical politican" to me. Thus that degrades Obama's value (strikes down a major selling point of his). I don't agree with alot of what Wright said, but remember the statement when he said (to the best of my memory), "Obama says things that he needs to say because he is a politican." Even a broken clock is right two times a day.