So last game we ran into the white dragon... Im pretty sure the fight was annoying for our DM as it didn't go any where near the way he or I believe anyone else thought it would.
First the mage and my sorcerer were dealing with the heads when the dragon swooped in. The Druid was the only one to spot it and opened with a flame strike doing a bit of damage but not as much as he hoped due to the resistance fire. The dragon then breathed catching everyone but the mage and my sorcerer in the cone, damaging everyone else but the rogue.
Then we got a chance to respond. The mage and I both hit it with a maximized ray of enfeeblement doing 22 points of str damage. The rest of the party hit it with a couple of arrows and such not doing much but distracting it. I forgot what else happened exactly but over the next 2 rounds I hit it with 2 more maximized rays of enfeeblement (yay for a lesser rod) droping it to below 0 and making it completely helpless. After that it was just a matter of the rogue, fighter and druids bear finishing it off.
I had to bring this up because it is the first time I have ever in my 25+ years of gaming seen a dragon droped, effectively by a first level spell
The thing is...
Ray of enfeeblemant is a penalty to strength, not damage. The spell effect does not stack, only the duration of the spell is extended. Even other casters do not increase the penalty. Eleven is the most strength penalty any single creature can suffer from Ray of Enfeeblement.
It seems your DM threw you a bone. Or the spell was misunderstood.
-Jack
edit: There is a discrepency between the short description on the spell list and the definition of the spell in PFRPG. The spell list says damage. The definition says penalty. The same discrepency is in the SRD. The general rule is that definition trumps lists or charts when there is a difference.
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Oh, yeah. I forgot that part.
Per the SRD, which is identical to the wording in the PFRPG Beta,
Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths
In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies.
Also, the ray of enfeeblement spell does not allow the target's strength to be reduced below 1.
Oh, well. That's one of those situations where, as the DM I'd chalk the scenario up as a lesson learned for me and an ingenious win for the PCs.
on principal I agree but it is strange that the text says "usually do not stack with themselves." but there is nothing to say when "usually" is and as the penalty is of an unnamed type and the spell itself does not say one could argue the point. As a GM I would tend to rule no stacking however simply because it is a 1st level spell.
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Rules-wise, I think the fact that two castings of the spell equate to the same spell acting with different strengths overrules the fact that the penalty is unnamed. It doesn't matter whether the penalties *could* stack because they never will. One will simply overpower the other.
Still, that's a pretty fine point within the rules that I had to be prompted to go back and read before I figured it out.
I think my initial reaction...the fact that I thought that it was a cool idea is the kind of thing that really drives things at the table, though. I've allowed things that I knew weren't in line with the intent of the rules, myself, when it made things more fun for everyone.
on principal I agree but it is strange that the text says "usually do not stack with themselves." but there is nothing to say when "usually" is and as the penalty is of an unnamed type and the spell itself does not say one could argue the point. As a GM I would tend to rule no stacking however simply because it is a 1st level spell.
This rule has been queried several times in the past as it does cause confusion. I remember an official answer (on Ask the Sage iirc) confirmed that they do not stack. So as pointed out, 11 strength loss is the maximum you can get from this spell, which is still a nice loss of 5 to hit. Not to be sniffed at for a 1st level spell.
The thing is...
Ray of enfeeblemant is a penalty to strength, not damage. The spell effect does not stack, only the duration of the spell is extended. Even other casters do not increase the penalty. Eleven is the most strength penalty any single creature can suffer from Ray of Enfeeblement.
It seems your DM threw you a bone. Or the spell was misunderstood.
-Jack
edit: There is a discrepency between the short description on the spell list and the definition of the spell in PFRPG. The spell list says damage. The definition says penalty. The same discrepency is in the SRD. The general rule is that definition trumps lists or charts when there is a difference.
Thanks I hadn't seen that. I thought it was a little over powered but didn't think to hard about it.
Damn, you guys totally burst his bubble :)
To be honest we had been doing the same thing in a friend of mine's game until I saw this thread. Now we have fixed it so good job for pointing it out (and that isn't sarcasm, I'm glad to be more educated on the rules :P)
A first-level spell with that power would be way too good, hence the penatly rather than damage.