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I find myself in a bind for the upcoming elections. I don't want to vote for Obama as his stance on abortion and the wars (among a few other things) are just not my cup of tea. On the other hand, we have have a continuation of our current failed administration, guaranteeing ourselves just another term of crooks and liars. So what to do? Anyone have any notable third choices that don't involve Nader?
*Damn... Not living in the US leaves you out of many threads...*
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Go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_presidential_candi dates,_2008
somebody posted it on paizo...I can't remember where. It was an interesting read!
I posted that..and here are all the links.
Political positions of Barack Obama
Political positions of Joe Biden
Political positions of John McCain
Political positions of Sarah Palin
Comparison of United States presidential candidates, 2008
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*Damn... Not living in the US leaves you out of many threads...*
My wife Is a US citizen but has never lived in the US, though as a US citizen she has the right to vote there are no states that have laws for her particular situation for registering to vote, so though I registered her in Florida because I am Florida resident I am unsure it will be excepted and she may not be allowed to vote..;-(
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I find myself in a bind for the upcoming elections. I don't want to vote for Obama as his stance on abortion and the wars (among a few other things) are just not my cup of tea. On the other hand, we have have a continuation of our current failed administration, guaranteeing ourselves just another term of crooks and liars. So what to do? Anyone have any notable third choices that don't involve Nader?
Cynthia McKinny is running. Of course you have to remember that she was the one who stood up on the floor of the House and accused the president of masterminding 9/11, and later said she would not return money that had been donated to her campaign by one of the 9/11 hijackers because it would be "racial profiling."
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I find myself in a bind for the upcoming elections. I don't want to vote for Obama as his stance on abortion and the wars (among a few other things) are just not my cup of tea. On the other hand, we have have a continuation of our current failed administration, guaranteeing ourselves just another term of crooks and liars. So what to do? Anyone have any notable third choices that don't involve Nader?Cynthia McKinny is running. Of course you have to remember that she was the one who stood up on the floor of the House and accused the president of masterminding 9/11, and later said she would not return money that had been donated to her campaign by one of the 9/11 hijackers because it would be "racial profiling."
Ugh, no thanks.
*Damn... Not living in the US leaves you out of many threads...*
Well, moving outside US can be considered a third party option.
We also have public schools which are not complete cesspits (*hint hint*)
Yeah, but leaving the U.S. means giving up your voter's priviledge to influence both domestic and foreign policy.
No candidate can ever represent what any one person wants. I think a vote has to be based on two things:
1) His/her position on the couple of issues you feel most strongly about
2) Your confidence in his/her character and ability to make good decisions.
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Yeah, but leaving the U.S. means giving up your voter's priviledge to influence both domestic and foreign policy.
Only if you renounce your citizenship. Otherwise you become an expatriate and live like a celebrity, voting all the time, but never having to face the repercussions if you make a bad choice.
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Go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_presidential_candi dates,_2008
somebody posted it on paizo...I can't remember where. It was an interesting read!
I posted that..and here are all the links.
Political positions of Barack Obama
Political positions of Joe Biden
Political positions of John McCain
Political positions of Sarah Palin
Comparison of United States presidential candidates, 2008
Is this data mostly unbiased? I ask not to question you or the sources but because I want to use this data to help me with my choices and would prefer not to be led in a particular direction.
A few thoughts..
None of the third party candidates are credible in the sense that there is simply no way that they will gain enough votes to win. This is not meant to be an indictment of their platforms, only the prevailing political reality. In fact, I think it is safe to say that they will not win a single state. That being said, voting for a third party is akin to not voting at all - your vote will not influence the election.
Consider this -
The President of the United States has tremendous influence on how the government itself operates. This subtle influence is often as important in the long run as major initiatives that a President puts forth. The President appoints Federal judges who interpret and enforce laws for years after the president steps down. The next President will likely appoint at least one Supreme Court judge who will have the power to intrepret the Constitution. The President runs agencies that create, delete, enforce, or ignore regulations that effect virtually every aspect of our lives from the environment, to health care, to banking regulation, to industrial safety standards and more.
The decision may be difficult, but I urge you to weigh the issues you care most about and trust your judgement when casting your vote.
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Edit: David's a ninja..
Actually if you had seen me, you would say it was more like a sumo wrestler.
Edit: Here is a picture of me and my kids at the zoo to back up my claim.
I think everyone should just vote for me. Then everyday can be John Wayne Day.
Bob Barr?
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16
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I find myself in a bind for the upcoming elections. I don't want to vote for Obama as his stance on abortion and the wars (among a few other things) are just not my cup of tea. On the other hand, we have have a continuation of our current failed administration, guaranteeing ourselves just another term of crooks and liars. So what to do? Anyone have any notable third choices that don't involve Nader?
Have you looked at Bob Barr?
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Go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_presidential_candi dates,_2008
somebody posted it on paizo...I can't remember where. It was an interesting read!
I posted that..and here are all the links.
Political positions of Barack Obama
Political positions of Joe Biden
Political positions of John McCain
Political positions of Sarah Palin
Comparison of United States presidential candidates, 2008Is this data mostly unbiased? I ask not to question you or the sources but because I want to use this data to help me with my choices and would prefer not to be led in a particular direction.
This is done on Wikipedia who are very sticky about being unbiased... But to be sure I would suggest looking at the sources of their facts and to think twice about stuff that does not have a source. That said most if not all of it is sourced.
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A few thoughts..
None of the third party candidates are credible in the sense that there is simply no way that they will gain enough votes to win. This is not meant to be an indictment of their platforms, only the prevailing political reality. In fact, I think it is safe to say that they will not win a single state. That being said, voting for a third party is akin to not voting at all - your vote will not influence the election.
While it isn't likely for a third party to win in the near future, we will never be able to get away from the two-party system (and the attendant "lesser of two evils"-type choices) unless more people realize there are other options and begin voting for them. So, I disagree that it's like "not voting at all", nor do I feel that voting a 3rd party is a protest vote, or anything like that. It may not happen overnight, but I'm just not content to sit back and feel like I have to vote Republicrat or Democan because one's going to win and there's nothing I can do about it. (And you need only look at Ross Perot in 1992 or Ralph Nader in 2000 to see that 3rd party votes can, indeed, influence an election ...)
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. (And you need only look at Ross Perot in 1992 or Ralph Nader in 2000 to see that 3rd party votes can, indeed, influence an election ...)
I here people say that, but Nader was running in 1992, and Pat Buchanan was running in 2000. The influnce of one was probably offset by the other, in my opinion.
While it isn't likely for a third party to win in the near future, we will never be able to get away from the two-party system (and the attendant "lesser of two evils"-type choices) unless more people realize there are other options and begin voting for them. So, I disagree that it's like "not voting at all", nor do I feel that voting a 3rd party is a protest vote, or anything like that. It may not happen overnight, but I'm just not content to sit back and feel like I have to vote Republicrat or Democan because one's going to win and there's nothing I can do about it. (And you need only look at Ross Perot in 1992 or Ralph Nader in 2000 to see that 3rd party votes can, indeed, influence an election ...)
I absolutely agree that third parties can influence an election. Nader is an excellent example. And there have been strong third party candidates in the past such as Teddy Roosevelt. I was speaking specifically too this year's election. As far as I am aware there is not significant third party movement this year.
The two party system is pretty firmly entrenched in this country. Typically, the main parties absorb third party platforms that prove to be popular. Or, one of the parties dies off and is subsumed into a new party. I'm not sure a two party system is such a bad thing. Numerous smaller parties tend to radicalize and build platforms on a few narrow issues. Multiple parties leads to coalition politics where one small splinter ground can bring down the whole ruling regime over a single issue. I wouldn't want a multiparty system like in Germany or Israel.
The "big tent" politics of two parties, drags both toward the middle and moderates policy to a certain degree. To my mind that is a good thing.
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I here people say that, but Nader was running in 1992, and Pat Buchanan was running in 2000. The influnce of one was probably offset by the other, in my opinion.. (And you need only look at Ross Perot in 1992 or Ralph Nader in 2000 to see that 3rd party votes can, indeed, influence an election ...)
Actually, Nader did not formally run in '92, and Perot received almost 19% of the popular vote.
In 2000, Nader got about 2.9 million votes vs Buchanan's 450,000 or so ...
Not much of an offset, IMO.
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There's always Ron Paul for third-party. I think some of his ideas are great and others are whacky, but I have nothing for respect for the fact that he will say whatever whacky disagreeable thing he's thinking, rather than 'evolve his position' for different audiences and then act all surprised that we have youtube videos of them totally contradicting themselves from day to day.
I may not agree with half of what he says, but I never get the impression that Paul is bald-faced pandering to me. On the other idealogical extreme, I feel the same way about Dennis Kucinich.
The only members of either party that address their listeners with respect are the ones that are dismissed as crazyflakes...
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There's always Ron Paul for third-party. I think some of his ideas are great and others are whacky, but I have nothing for respect for the fact that he will say whatever whacky disagreeable thing he's thinking, rather than 'evolve his position' for different audiences and then act all surprised that we have youtube videos of them totally contradicting themselves from day to day.
I may not agree with half of what he says, but I never get the impression that Paul is bald-faced pandering to me. On the other idealogical extreme, I feel the same way about Dennis Kucinich.
The only members of either party that address their listeners with respect are the ones that are dismissed as crazyflakes...
Ron Paul is putting together a "Coalition for Change" which will be a big tent for as many third party groups as will sign on. As I understand it, it will mostly involve fund raising, but one never know, It could evolve into a full fledged party. After all the Las Vegas Sun described Ron Paul's politics as being "where the far right meets the far left."
I here people say that, but Nader was running in 1992, and Pat Buchanan was running in 2000. The influnce of one was probably offset by the other, in my opinion.. (And you need only look at Ross Perot in 1992 or Ralph Nader in 2000 to see that 3rd party votes can, indeed, influence an election ...)
Nader running in 2000 offset things as well.
By voting for a third party you can actually put that party in a better position for future elections. Since if they get enough of the popular vote they can get extra funding in the future.
If Hillary would have gotten the Dem candidacy, I was half-expecting to see Gore be the Green party candidate.