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Are Darkwood Shields available in Organized Play?
On a related note, Mithril Shirts?
Some of the DMG equipment is just darn useful, and I would love to see it opened up for characters to purchase.
Druids, in particular, tend to get hosed, as chain shirts are superior in all ways to hide armor (and while Golarion does have superior forms of Hide armor, the Hide Shirt and the special 3x cost Hide armor made from one of the critters in the back of the Campaign Setting, neither of them are under the approved items listed in the Organized Play handout, which can only derive from the Equipment section of the book, or the PHB). I'd very much like to see the improved Hide armor moved onto the approved list *and* I'd like to see a Golarion equivalent to Ironwood/Duskwood/Feywood/whatever that would allow a Druid to wear a breastplate of wood that's as tough as metal (and notably lighter, functioning like Mithril, mechanically, and costing the same, as Feywood ain't cheap, but being made of wood and thus being wearable in obeyance of their sacred oaths). And then, to go with the serious thorn motif going on in the PFCS equipment list, there could be Thornwood, a version of Feywood that has been magically shaped to have metal-hard thorns that act as Armor Spikes!
I don't care if this Feywood or whatever is naturally as hard as metal, grows as hard as metal after it's cut and / or requires alchemical treatment to be hardened, just so long as there is some sort of neat armor option for the 'metal-is-icky' set.
For that matter, I'd love to see some bone armor tossed into the Golarion armor chart.
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Are Darkwood Shields available in Organized Play?
On a related note, Mithril Shirts?
Some of the DMG equipment is just darn useful, and I would love to see it opened up for characters to purchase.
Druids, in particular, tend to get hosed, as chain shirts are superior in all ways to hide armor (and while Golarion does have superior forms of Hide armor, the Hide Shirt and the special 3x cost Hide armor made from one of the critters in the back of the Campaign Setting, neither of them are under the approved items listed in the Organized Play handout, which can only derive from the Equipment section of the book, or the PHB). I'd very much like to see the improved Hide armor moved onto the approved list *and* I'd like to see a Golarion equivalent to Ironwood/Duskwood/Feywood/whatever that would allow a Druid to wear a breastplate of wood that's as tough as metal (and notably lighter, functioning like Mithril, mechanically, and costing the same, as Feywood ain't cheap, but being made of wood and thus being wearable in obeyance of their sacred oaths). And then, to go with the serious thorn motif going on in the PFCS equipment list, there could be Thornwood, a version of Feywood that has been magically shaped to have metal-hard thorns that act as Armor Spikes!
I don't care if this Feywood or whatever is naturally as hard as metal, grows as hard as metal after it's cut and / or requires alchemical treatment to be hardened, just so long as there is some sort of neat armor option for the 'metal-is-icky' set.
For that matter, I'd love to see some bone armor tossed into the Golarion armor chart.
One of my players is playing a tribal warrior from the jungle expanse south of Absalom. He had wanted to use the Hide shirt that was introduced in one of the regional guides, as metal armour in the jungle doesn't work so well.
I'd like to second the request that there be some option available for people who want/need some degree of physical armour but won't wear the metal variety for one reason or another.
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I think it's pretty clear from the PFS guide what's in and what's out (by default, scenario AR's excluded) -- after all there's an explicit list of what's permitted from the DMG, the wording may not be explicit but I think the intent's clear.
I don't really have a problem with druids not having access to the heavier armours -- that's essentially the point of the rule after all, it's just more flavourful than saying they don't get medium/heavy armour (and slightly more restrictive as theoretically a character could use feats or multiclass to get it, whereas they can't do so to bypass the druidic restriction).
Maybe dragon will show up on a scenario AR at some point, but personally I don't feel it matters too much (YMMV) -- they're supposed to be nature priests after all, not frontline fighters!
So hide's not as good as a chain shirt, but a (nonmagical) suit of hide's 1/7 the cost of a chain shirt, but it's only 1 point of AC worse, only 2 worse than the "heaviest" medium armour (breastplate).
I don't have a problem with druids having a relatively weak AC, they've got access to a number of useful buffs plus the horribly abusive wildshaping (the class seems to have turned from being about nature priests to being about wild-shaping death-dealing dire bears).
*shrug* if I had my way druids would've gone the way of the dodo back when 3e came out :)
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So hide's not as good as a chain shirt, but a (nonmagical) suit of hide's 1/7 the cost of a chain shirt, but it's only 1 point of AC worse, only 2 worse than the "heaviest" medium armour (breastplate).
Armor is used for protection. They should be compared to each other primarily through the protection they offer. Hide needs to be compared to studded leather. Hide costs 10gp less, has one worse max Dex, has two more ACP, is 10% more prone to ASF, and is slower to move in. As 10gp is peanuts even for a starting character no one is ever going to take hide armor except for flavor issues. As such the whole entry should be removed the armor list.
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Hide needs to be compared to studded leather. Hide costs 10gp less, has one worse max Dex, has two more ACP, is 10% more prone to ASF, and is slower to move in. As 10gp is peanuts even for a starting character no one is ever going to take hide armor except for flavor issues. As such the whole entry should be removed the armor list.
One important difference: Hide does not have metal studs and can thus be worn by druids.
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Hide needs to be compared to studded leather. Hide costs 10gp less, has one worse max Dex, has two more ACP, is 10% more prone to ASF, and is slower to move in. As 10gp is peanuts even for a starting character no one is ever going to take hide armor except for flavor issues. As such the whole entry should be removed the armor list.One important difference: Hide does not have metal studs and can thus be worn by druids.
He was being nice, and giving the benefit of the doubt. In short, hide stinks. The only armor users who wear hide, and that is simply because they have to if they want to get better protection than leather, is druids.
In all truth, as well, it is obvious that an earlier poster doesn't understand armor, combat, nor the errata-ed druid class, or he would understand how weak the class really is, now. So weak, in fact, that LG came out with a rebuild option for those who had been playing druids up until the errata came out.
Did you know that, other than for a couple of armor/shield enhancements and one item from the MIC, a druid in wild shape has the benefits of NONE of his items? According to the EVERYTHING the druid is wearing melts into their body when they wildshape. EVERYTHING.
The only way for a druid to have a magic item, barring items that require access, is to have another party member carry things for them, and then keep both of them out of action putting any items onto the wildshaped druid?
I don't think that asking for an item that is core is all that much to ask. YMMV.
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In all truth, as well, it is obvious that an earlier poster doesn't understand armor, combat, nor the errata-ed druid class, or he would understand how weak the class really is, now. So weak, in fact, that LG came out with a rebuild option for those who had been playing druids up until the errata came out.
I ... can't believe it.
That's a ridiculous statement by all standards. In Living Greyhawk there indeed became a rebuild option when all old 3.0 splat books were made obsolete. In addition nearly all characters had the option to rebuild.
And so did a friend of mine. A cleric into a druid. And I tell, that druid could easily solo almost any scenario. Simply the spells, summons, wild shape, and the animal companion combined create a destroying, unstoppable menace. It's true what they say on Character Optimization boards: 20th-level druid is one of the most powerful sensible characters you can create.
You claim other(s) don't understand about combat, armor, and whatnot, yet here you are stating druids are a weak class.
Did you know that, other than for a couple of armor/shield enhancements and one item from the MIC, a druid in wild shape has the benefits of NONE of his items? According to the EVERYTHING the druid is wearing melts into their body when they wildshape. EVERYTHING.
Oh yeah, druid has the benefits of none of his items. Except when he wild shapes first and only then equips them.
I don't think that asking for an item that is core is all that much to ask. YMMV.
In a campaign that requires 2nd level scrolls and 1st level wands to be found in play, asking for an item that is core is probably too much to ask.
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In all truth, as well, it is obvious that an earlier poster doesn't understand armor, combat, nor the errata-ed druid class, or he would understand how weak the class really is, now. So weak, in fact, that LG came out with a rebuild option for those who had been playing druids up until the errata came out.I ... can't believe it.
That's a ridiculous statement by all standards. In Living Greyhawk there indeed became a rebuild option when all old 3.0 splat books were made obsolete. In addition nearly all characters had the option to rebuild.
And so did a friend of mine. A cleric into a druid. And I tell, that druid could easily solo almost any scenario. Simply the spells, summons, wild shape, and the animal companion combined create a destroying, unstoppable menace. It's true what they say on Character Optimization boards: 20th-level druid is one of the most powerful sensible characters you can create.
You claim other(s) don't understand about combat, armor, and whatnot, yet here you are stating druids are a weak class.
And what year did your friend get his rebuild? And was that the SECOND LG rebuild? The one in 595 caused by the wildshape errata?
To put it to you in plain english:
Wildshape is not anywhere near as powerful as you think it is.
Summoning druids are a whole different breed of animal (sorry) than a wildshaping druid. Each concentration weakens the other.
Sure, it is possible to concentrate intensively on summons, but a Wizard can do about as well with his summons.
Yes, it is possible to overcome some of the innate disadvantages of wildshaping and items by only shaping for a long interval, rather than into shapes appropriate for the situation, in order to have access to a few magic items that will work with your current form.
Truly, the only real strength of a druid, after the errata, is to concentrate on his animal companion and ways to strengthen it. And, in PFS, one of the major dips to help that out is not legal. Beastmaster is an insane addition for a single-class druid. For anyone else, it might help make them as good with their animal companion, maybe, as a non-beastmaster single class druid, around 7th level.
For a wildshaped druid, unless his chosen form is already optimum, he has to decide "Do I retain the few itms I am wearing in this form, or do I give them up so I can switch to a better form to handle X threat?"
Is wolf form universally useful? By no means. Flying opponents can prety much do to the wolf as they please. The same for burrowing opponents, and swimming opponents. Is dolphin, shark or octopus most useful if you are venturing out into deep water?
As to the usefulness of hide? I would rather wear leather, or even no armor rather than hide armor.
And, in combat, the druid has to give up magic weapons and magic defenses, for the most part, if he wants to wildshape. Which means that, despite natural armor and/or high dexterity from the form (which seldom come from the same form), he is giving up either offensive ability or defensive ability, and, in addition, without assistance from the party (in OP? Sometimes) means that he can't affect some opponents, because, unlike the monk, his natural weapons do not count as magical weapons for the purpose of hitting or going through DR.
So, you want to continue? Or do you want me to post the actual errataed text of Wildshape and the ability (Alternate Form) it is based off of? Oh, by the way, that is correct. Wildshape is no longer based off of Polymorph. And wildshape is even stricter than alternate form is, by the way.
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In all truth, as well, it is obvious that an earlier poster doesn't understand armor, combat, nor the errata-ed druid class, or he would understand how weak the class really is, now. So weak, in fact, that LG came out with a rebuild option for those who had been playing druids up until the errata came out.I ... can't believe it.
That's a ridiculous statement by all standards. In Living Greyhawk there indeed became a rebuild option when all old 3.0 splat books were made obsolete. In addition nearly all characters had the option to rebuild.
And so did a friend of mine. A cleric into a druid. And I tell, that druid could easily solo almost any scenario. Simply the spells, summons, wild shape, and the animal companion combined create a destroying, unstoppable menace. It's true what they say on Character Optimization boards: 20th-level druid is one of the most powerful sensible characters you can create.
You claim other(s) don't understand about combat, armor, and whatnot, yet here you are stating druids are a weak class.
And what year did your friend get his rebuild? And was that the SECOND LG rebuild? The one in 595 caused by the wildshape errata?
To put it to you in plain english:
Wildshape is not anywhere near as powerful as you think it is.
Summoning druids are a whole different breed of animal (sorry) than a wildshaping druid. Each concentration weakens the other.
Sure, it is possible to concentrate intensively on summons, but a Wizard can do about as well with his summons.
Yes, it is possible to overcome some of the innate disadvantages of wildshaping and items by only shaping for a long interval, rather than into shapes appropriate for the situation, in order to have access to a few magic items that will work with your current form.
Truly, the only real strength of a druid, after the errata, is to concentrate on his animal companion and ways to strengthen it. And, in PFS, one of the major dips to help that out is not legal....
Lolwhut?
As to the original topic, it's also worth mentioning that druids picked up some love in Pathfinder Chronicles with the leaf armor option (a +3 armor bonus but without any penalties).
It's a solid pick for the low-level druid who does not want to sacrifice any speed.
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This is very interesting: in at least one scenario mithril armor is listed as being among the loot found during the scenario, implying that it can't regularly be bought between scenarios, but in a recent discussion at the GM board we asked the author of a scenario why the mithril armor worn by an enemy wasn't listed in the available loot.
The response we got was pretty much "I thought mithril armor was available for purchase in the Society."
So, apparently not even the people who run the Society are sure whether the special materials from the DMG are allowed or not. ;)
As to the original topic, it's also worth mentioning that druids picked up some love in Pathfinder Chronicles with the leaf armor option (a +3 armor bonus but without any penalties).
It's a solid pick for the low-level druid who does not want to sacrifice any speed.
I actually bought +1 Leaf Armor for my Animal Companion, while the druid is wearing hide, figuring that the animal would make better use of it, while the druid would hang back and cast helper spells.
I really really disagree with the post claiming that druid is weak. Considering the range of options available to a druid that are not available to any other class, I feel it is the strongest base class available. (Fight, Cast, Heal, they're all good.)
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Contributor
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This is very interesting: in at least one scenario mithril armor is listed as being among the loot found during the scenario, implying that it can't regularly be bought between scenarios, but in a recent discussion at the GM board we asked the author of a scenario why the mithril armor worn by an enemy wasn't listed in the available loot.
The response we got was pretty much "I thought mithril armor was available for purchase in the Society."
So, apparently not even the people who run the Society are sure whether the special materials from the DMG are allowed or not. ;)
I'd like to point out again, that I don't run the society nor speak officially for Paizo, and I thought I made it clear that I was speaking off the top of my head. I'm a freelancer who wrote two scenarios, and I like to answer people's questions about those scenarios when I can, but I don't always have all the answers.
So don't read too much into the comment, other than that I should have double-checked my information before answering.
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This is very interesting: in at least one scenario mithril armor is listed as being among the loot found during the scenario, implying that it can't regularly be bought between scenarios, but in a recent discussion at the GM board we asked the author of a scenario why the mithril armor worn by an enemy wasn't listed in the available loot.
The response we got was pretty much "I thought mithril armor was available for purchase in the Society."
So, apparently not even the people who run the Society are sure whether the special materials from the DMG are allowed or not. ;)
I'd like to point out again, that I don't run the society nor speak officially for Paizo, and I thought I made it clear that I was speaking off the top of my head. I'm a freelancer who wrote two scenarios, and I like to answer people's questions about those scenarios when I can, but I don't always have all the answers.
So don't read too much into the comment, other than that I should have double-checked my information before answering.
In my defence my post was written before you cleared things up in the other thread. Thanks for that and don't worry, you made an honest mistake. We wouldn't have these discussions in the first place if the rules were a hundred percent clear on these matters all the time. :)
EDIT: By the way, I apologize if my post came across as offensive. I now realize that I might've been a bit too snarky.