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I'm going to post this when we get to feats, but until then I'm probably going to be making a char with the feat and would like some opinions.
You attract followers to your cause and a companion to join
you on your adventures.
Prerequisite: Character level 6th.
Benef its: Having this feat enables you to attract loyal
companions and devoted followers, subordinates who
assist you. See the table below for what sort of cohort
and how many followers you can recruit.
My first conundrum is there is no more feat at level 6, it's 5 and 7. I'd rather this sync'd up with a feat level because otherwise the level requirement seems arbitrary. I'd prefer 5 over 7 myself.
I'm also for splitting up Cohort and Followers into two separate feats as done in d20 past. Comments?
Well...now that you mention...
Level 6 always seemed arbitrary for me. I never questioned, however, since "this just IS"...
But I think level 5 would be fine. Unless there is a GREAT reason why it was level 6 in the normal D&D.
No opinion on the two being separete. I don't see reason why yes, and really no reason why no. The feat just works fine.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I'd rather see it bumped up to level 7, and at the same time, changed so that cohorts had to be at lest 3 levels lower than the leader. I think that this is one of the most overpowered feats in the game, and too often a cohort is too close in power to the PCs and takes the role as another party member. I'd rather see cohorts act more as sidekicks, that are useful to have, but not so close to the power level of the PCs.
I like the concept of a Leadership feat but think that it could be implemented completely differently. I constructed a house ruled Leadership that lets the character with the feat get some of the types of abilities that a 4E Warlord gets (helping his team etc.)
As additional info, I am also planning to use an "Action Point" system and the Leadership feat ties into those Action Points.
Here is the wording I currently have. My first PF campaign is set to begin the 1st weekend in October so I have some time to change or fix wording etc so please feel free to let me know if I'm completely on crack here :)
Leadership [General]
Your inspiring words and deeds make your allies more effective in battle.
Prerequisite: Charisma 13, Intelligence 12
Benefit: This feat provides multiple benefits. All effects only benefit allies within 30’ of you, and with whom you have line of sight to.
- All allies gain a +1 morale bonus to initiative rolls. This benefit is in effect at all times.
- You gain 2 additional Action Points (see below) at each level.
- You may give your Action Points to allies. Giving/receiving an Action point does not require an action.
Action Points
All characters gain 5 Action Points at each level. Each point can be exchanged:
- for an extra Standard, Move, or Minor (formerly called Swift) Action.
- for a bonus 1d4 per 4 levels that can be added to (or removed from) any d20 roll you make or that directly affects your character. For example, levels 1-4 +1d4; levels 5-8 2d4; levels 9-12 3d4; etc.
- to treat any damage roll you make as if you had rolled maximum on the dice. You may decide after rolling damage.
- to treat any damage roll made against your character as if the attacker had rolled minimum on the dice. You may decide after damage has been rolled.
- for an immediate saving throw to break an ongoing affect which you have already failed a saving throw against.
- for a free Recovery (see below) action (does not use your recovery action).
No more than one point can be used by one PC per round (unless given an Action Point by a character with the Leadership feat).
The Leadership Feat allows a player to spend Action Points to aid his allies. Action Points received from a character with the Leadership feat may be spent in addition to a characters own Action points. For example, if a player uses one of his own Action points to gain an additional Move action he could also spend a point received from a character with the Leadership feat in the same round.
Recovery Action
I am also using a 4E style "Second Wind" / "Healing Surge" concept called a Recovery Action. This action allows a PC (as a Move action) to recover LEVEL+Con modifier in HP. A character can gets 1 Recovery Action per day per point of Con bonus +1.
** The point of the Recovery Action is to attempt to extend the 15 minute adventuring day a bit.
I also have Greater Leadership and True Leadership feats that have Leadership as a prereq and in the case of Greater Leadership, gives more Action Points and a bonus to attack rolls to allies nearby, and in the case of True Leadership, the character actually gets some non-adventuring followers who work to establish a base of operations for the PC.
Thoughts?
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I think Leadership is too complicated right now to be an effective, reasonably balanced feat.
1) Firstly, Leadership should grant a Cohort, no followers -- most players don't want/need them anyway.
2) The current method of calculating experience means the follower will trail exactly at the same point behind the character, unless they don't go adventuring with their master, in which case they fall further behind. Why not just say 'your cohort is always 2 levels lower than you?'
3) The Leadership score thing is complicated, and subject to change. Why not say the base cohort is 4 levels lower? If you take Leadership again, it is 2 levels lower?
4) Perhaps allow an extra feat taken in Leadership again to grant 5 X the Character's level or Charisma modifier in class levels of followers, each one being no more than four levels below their master? That would mean a 10th level character could have 50 levels of followers, with a maximum of 6th level.
5) Please, specify that Cohorts get a half-share of treasure! I've seen niggly parties short-change the cohorts! And add in upkeep, or a fair wage, or something for Followers. Geez.
6) Lastly, keep in mind with no XP costs, a lot of players will consider having a cohort who will sit around and make magic items for the party. This needs to be watched/stopped/guarded against.
Those are my thoughts...
2) The current method of calculating experience means the follower will trail exactly at the same point behind the character, unless they don't go adventuring with their master, in which case they fall further behind. Why not just say 'your cohort is always 2 levels lower than you?'
5) Please, specify that Cohorts get a half-share of treasure! I've seen niggly parties short-change the cohorts! And add in upkeep, or a fair wage, or something for Followers. Geez.
6) Lastly, keep in mind with no XP costs, a lot of players will consider having a cohort who will sit around and make magic items for the party. This needs to be watched/stopped/guarded against.
5) Agree
6) I'm not sure that's a huge problem, but should be considered yes.2) The 3.5 method (getting a ratio of leader's xp's equal to cohort/leader) does indeed quite well keep the cohort at exactly the same relative place. That method does not work in Pathfinder however.
Quick example: You are 13th level, your cohort is 10th level. XP totals: 210K, 71K. You gain 91K xp, your cohort gains 70K xp. You have reached 14th level, your cohort has jumped to 12th. You now gain 140K, your cohort gains 120K. You hit 15th, your cohort is nearly to 14th (though cannot get that level 1 below yours).
It's not that bad - and actually helps catch the cohort up/keep it up (particularly if it dies w/out true resurrection). The effect is larger at higher levels where the ratio'd difference makes less difference. For the record, gaining precisely half xp (the 3.0 method by chance) would be sufficient to bring and keep a cohort at 2 levels behind.
As for "Why not just say 'your cohort is always 2 levels lower than you?" - breaks the surrealism of the game. You'd never have to true res. them either.
It's not that bad - and actually helps catch the cohort up/keep it up (particularly if it dies w/out true resurrection).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Raise Dead combined with Restoration enough most of the time?
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Good catch on the xp progression. I agree it should go back to half of the master's XP to progress properly in Pathfinder.
A simple clause saying a cohort/follower will not make more than one magic item per month might work (although it's not an ideal fix), or state that anyone who continuously makes magic items has to make a Fortitude save or gain a negative level...
I can only add that cohorts are something great to a DM.
Damn, my group is formed of a Ranger, a Tempest (fighter), a Paladin and a Rogue. Paladin's Cohort? Great: A CLERIC!
I think that the Xp works nice. I think there shouldn't be the thing of "always -2 than you", AND we should keep the followers. C'mon, there are many character who want "free servants".
I never could figure out how Leadership could explain a King leading an entire country or an evil warlord with an army of thousands.
Well, back in the old days, you got your followers after 9th level and building a stronghold/tower/guild-house. So maybe assigning it to 9th level minimums isn't so bad.
I do like having followers though, even though the cohort is more useful in a mechanical sense, having followers is very cool for those who like to play concepts for which a loyal staff or crew is de rigueur. I really do like the suggestion that followers be based on a block of "levels" or hit-dice that can be split up as the PC sees fit. There'd likely have to be a cap limit on that though, otherwise a PC would sink them all into high level followers that would be essentially another cohort.
I like leadership pretty much as is. Sure, it can be abused if your players want to be jerks, but the same can be said about almost everything in D&D.
Maybe the reason it doesn't get abused in my games is that I, the DM, make and control the cohorts as loyal NPCs with their own interests who happen to travel with and fight alongside the party. They won't ever willingly betray the PC with leadership, but neither will they mindlessly obey stupid orders.
One minor house rule I've used in my games is that instead of granting a bunch of level 1 followers, a player with leadership gets a second cohort 3 levels lower than the PC. They're not high enough level to overshadow anyone (including the primary cohort) but they're not low enough level to die in one hit if any of the PCs enemies catch them off guard.