Drow creation questions? *spoilers*

[Stewart Perkins]

So it may have been addressed but I haven't seen it yet, but how exactly does the process of Elf to Drow work in game rules? Let's say we have an elf pc in a morally crooked group, what's the rules regarding whether that pc descends and becomes drow? Is it covered anywhere, or I guess this one is for James and co. is that going to be covered in the Darklands stuff or the AP itself, if at all? Just wondering.

[The Black Fox]

I'd say offhand their is no game mechanic, but only if the DM wants it to be done. I'd personally never do it for an NPC. Instead, its something metaphysical. And I wouldn't ever have it happen for "routine" evil stuff, but save it for high dramatic occassions - like Lord Soth in Dragonlance becoming a death knight, or some of the more interesting lords of Ravenloft.

[James Jacobs]

Stewart Perkins wrote:

So it may have been addressed but I haven't seen it yet, but how exactly does the process of Elf to Drow work in game rules? Let's say we have an elf pc in a morally crooked group, what's the rules regarding whether that pc descends and becomes drow? Is it covered anywhere, or I guess this one is for James and co. is that going to be covered in the Darklands stuff or the AP itself, if at all? Just wondering.

We haven't detailed how and when and why the elf to drow change occurs, apart from saying it happens to only the most wicked of elves. It also probably requires some sort of willing "sell your soul to the Abyss or a demon" level of thing as well. It's a RARE event; it's not something that would or should happen often, otherwise it would be a much more well-known condition. I'd guess that it happens maybe once every few centuries, in fact.

It won't be mentioned at all in "Into the Darklands" since it's a pretty important hidden plot element in "Second Darkness." We're actually not mentioning it AT ALL outside of the Second Darkness campaign for now, in fact.

I suspect that we'll have a bit more to say about it in Pathfinder #17, though, when another such event may or may not be set to occur...

[Jal Dorak]

I hope you don't mean Kwava, James? Or maybe I do...

Drinking the blood of another elf might be a good way to ritualize it.

[Stewart Perkins]

James Jacobs wrote:

We haven't detailed how and when and why the elf to drow change occurs, apart from saying it happens to only the most wicked of elves. It also probably requires some sort of willing "sell your soul to the Abyss or a demon" level of thing as well. It's a RARE event; it's not something that would or should happen often, otherwise it would be a much more well-known condition. I'd guess that it happens maybe once every few centuries, in fact.

It won't be mentioned at all in "Into the Darklands" since it's a pretty important hidden plot element in "Second Darkness." We're actually not mentioning it AT ALL outside of the Second Darkness campaign for now, in fact.

I suspect that we'll have a bit more to say about it in Pathfinder #17, though, when another such event may or may not be set to occur...

Ah ok, I got from reading from the initial adventure history about the drow changes and how they were happening and thought it happened more than that, maybe just the way I read it. So just an EXTREMELY vile act would cause a change, and Demon influence is a must? Sounds good to me.

[Matthew Morris]

Personally, I think the inversion of ethics post change shouldn't be a must. For example, if/when I run SD.

Spoiler:

Allevrah isn't seeking to punish the surface elves. In her mind it's an elaborate plot to prove to her fellow elves how dangerous the threat has become. By striking Kyonin, she can make the elves see how dangerous the drow are, and stop dithering. When the attack is complete, they'll see, and then she can lead the drow back to the surface and rule the survivors of both races. In her mind, the end justifies the means.

The fact that neither race will have her, if her mad plan succeeds, she's become as evil and demon tainted as any drow is lost on her. If she were to take more time to rally her drow 'cousins' she'd see the dark as it were, as she does in the published backstory. I just don't like the 'Well if I'm evil, I guess I'll go slaughter the children at the Jedi Temple, er use my superweapon against my former people.' vibe I get from her motives. It just seems too fast for me.

[Dennis da Ogre]

Matthew Morris wrote:

Well if I'm evil, I guess I'll go slaughter the children at the Jedi Temple

Oh dear... what a perfect analogy. I also got this sort of vibe (though not so bad as that). I was kind of thinking that perhaps she was being driven by something to do thing, perhaps her mind brushed against something and is now driving her to bring down the next darkness. Whatever is driving her first tried to have her strike the drow, since that failed it has now completely subsumed her will. Considering the first darkness caused the worldwound, perhaps a second darkness would cause a further tear and allow the demons to enter the prime material plane more directly, regardless of why the meteor is called down.

[Matthew Morris]

Dennis da Ogre wrote:

Matthew Morris wrote:

Well if I'm evil, I guess I'll go slaughter the children at the Jedi Temple

Oh dear... what a perfect analogy. I also got this sort of vibe (though not so bad as that). I was kind of thinking that perhaps she was being driven by something to do thing, perhaps her mind brushed against something and is now driving her to bring down the next darkness. Whatever is driving her first tried to have her strike the drow, since that failed it has now completely subsumed her will. Considering the first darkness caused the worldwound, perhaps a second darkness would cause a further tear and allow the demons to enter the prime material plane more directly, regardless of why the meteor is called down.

I can see that for one or two, but it becomes cliche to me for it to affect everyone with 'elven cancer' like that. You'd kind of end up with an entire race/group with mindseed essentially.

I'm also curious what happens with a pregnant elf.

Spoiler:

lets say one part of a demonic coven, who murders another elf to protect her coven. Sure we can say the baby spontaniously aborts, turns into demon spawm etc. That's boring.

[Dennis da Ogre]

Matthew Morris wrote:

I can see that for one or two, but it becomes cliche to me for it to affect everyone with 'elven cancer' like that. You'd kind of end up with an entire race/group with mindseed essentially.

I was only talking about Allevrah, not a race/ group mindseed, rather a single Elf who dug too deep into Demon Magic and lost her soul.

[Matthew Morris]

Dennis da Ogre wrote:

Matthew Morris wrote:

I can see that for one or two, but it becomes cliche to me for it to affect everyone with 'elven cancer' like that. You'd kind of end up with an entire race/group with mindseed essentially.

I was only talking about Allevrah, not a race/ group mindseed, rather a single Elf who dug too deep into Demon Magic and lost her soul.

Oh, OK. I misunderstood *hangs head in shame*

Thanks for the clarification.

[Dennis da Ogre]

Matthew Morris wrote:

Dennis da Ogre wrote:

Matthew Morris wrote:

I can see that for one or two, but it becomes cliche to me for it to affect everyone with 'elven cancer' like that. You'd kind of end up with an entire race/group with mindseed essentially.

I was only talking about Allevrah, not a race/ group mindseed, rather a single Elf who dug too deep into Demon Magic and lost her soul.

Oh, OK. I misunderstood *hangs head in shame*

Thanks for the clarification.

Meh... Mis-communication is what the internet is best at.

[Iridal]

Wicked Elves can change to drow. I love the idea. But I have doubts,

1 - A drow can be redeemed to the point of becoming an elf? I understand this may be even more difficult (and rare) than the change elf-to-drow. But is it possible, given the right circumstances? This would also explain why there is no good drows in Golarion.

2 - The drow are evil because of a deep corruption of their souls. It's logical. But are they born corrupt, or would this corruption be taught during their childhood? Drow’s babies are elves o drow? If they are elves not yet corrupt, like any other mortal, then they will grow into a drow (as their education is not going to allow them another way) After all, mortals are not born with predetermined alignments, unlike devils or angels. Mortals usually have free will to decide which alignment to take (even if this freedom is severely restricted by the environment where they live ... as the drows)

English is not my native language. Forgive me for the attacks that I have made to your language in these two short paragraphs.

[Shawn S.]

Hello,

Sorry for the necro-post but I haven't read up on all of the Golarion-specific lore yet and would like to know if there was an "official" answer to the question of the drow?

If not I am thinking that it is more like a curse that was placed upon the first drow (and any others that follow in their footsteps) and any of their children. The power of this curse would have to be from a deity and I'm not even knowledgeable enough with the deities to know who would have placed such a curse.

Hopefully I can get answers to these questions before my PCs start asking. ;)

Thanks in advance.

[DarkLightHitomi]

I don't know much backstory on pathfinder drow but they are my favorite race to play and it would be a shame to not be able to port my LN drow monk/sorcerer over. More so because I'm a fan of the drowtales comic which has in my opinion the most realistic take on the drow as a society where slaves and rule by strength are the norm and yet they still act out of love as much as hate.