Angry Jack rant.


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Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
mwbeeler wrote:
We had our first child last year (2007) in April. We were both working, but decided that quite simply, day care was a stupid idea for us. We’d be funneling most of her salary towards letting someone else raise our child. Now she is a stay at home mom while we live on a single middle-class income (mine). We’ve always been single checking account what’s-mine-is-yours people, so it wasn’t a tough transition. I don’t have to worry about what’s going on with my son and he gets constant contact with one of us, pretty cool.

The above words contain a great deal of wisdom.

mwbeeler wrote:
Generic formula costs less than half of regular formula, even with the manufacturer checks, AND it foams less.

We used the generic Sam's Club version of Enfamil. The conttainer was 2x as large for a slightly lower price.

mwbeeler wrote:
Generic diapers work fine for days. As mentioned earlier, go with the good stuff for at night.

We've had great luck with the Target-branded generic diapers and sleepers at night.

We had our first in 2006. She'll be 2 in a couple weeks. What a trip.

-Skeld

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Fake Healer wrote:

Catholic school is running around $6000 a year in my area (delaware) and private is running from $7000-12000 roughly.

I would Suggest Public Education, It is a little Cheaper and as long as you are involved in your child's education he/she will do just fine. *Well in a perfect world ;-)*

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

By the way.. you guys are making me scared about me and my wife trying to have a Child....

I remember when I was a Child and always asking my mother for toys..and her saying sorry we can't afford that... and then I would start crying.. I can see that happening again when we have a child...But I will be the one still crying because we can't afford my toys!

Dark Archive

CourtFool wrote:

Daddy, I&#8217;m hungry. Daddy, I&#8217;m thirsty. Daddy, can I use my curly straw? Daddy, I&#8217;m still thirsty. Daddy, I made poo poo, will you wipe my butt. Daddy, I want to watch cartoons. But, I don&#8217;t like the news. Daddy, can I watch t.v. upstairs? Daddy, my cartoons are over and there is something I do not like on t.v. will you change the channel? Daddy, I want to watch my video, will you put it on for me?

And that is just 15 minutes.

My sisters have been able to put in their own movies since they were three.

Sometimes they even ask first ;)


David Wickham wrote:


My sisters have been able to put in their own movies since they were three.

Sometimes they even ask first ;)

This is one area where I have a love-hate relationship with DVDs. They hold a lot of info, kids can watch them endlessly without them being worn out, I don't have to rewind them. But they get damaged and smudge very easily from 2-year-old hands.

We never had to worry much about my daughter messing up the videotapes. But she and her little brother sure have messed up some DVDs.

The Exchange

Bill Dunn wrote:
mwbeeler wrote:


I haven’t tried it yet, because the whole milk (skim for us, whole for Drew) at Aldi’s runs in the $2.50 range, but the powdered milk stays good for a year and comes in HUGE boxes.

For my money, powdered milk tastes terrible. I find it reasonably acceptible for cooking, but can't palate drinking it.

For various money-saving tips, find a copy of the Tightwad Gazette. We got a number of ideas out of it, including recipes for cheap dinners that have become staples at our house.

Powdered milk must be mixed with boiling water...then allowed to cool. It tastes funny because it is skim.

PS over consumption of Powdered milk causes calcium saturation of your adrenal cortex lining. This freaks your body out so it thinks you are suffering massive bone loss, and finally ups Adrenalin and Cortesone production causing Diabetes.

Sovereign Court

yellowdingo wrote:
PS over consumption of Powdered milk causes calcium saturation of your adrenal cortex lining. This freaks your body out so it thinks you are suffering massive bone loss, and finally ups Adrenalin and Cortesone production causing Diabetes.

How comforting...


Day care is a growing business.

If one of you has the temperament for it, you can open your own day care business in your home. Then you get paid for staying at home to take care of children.

Sovereign Court Contributor

Here's something from one of the stay home Dads...

I know you said you can't afford for your wife to stay home, but make sure and do a real cost analysis. My wife and I ended up ahead by me staying home and not putting our kids in daycare. Mind you, we also sold our car, because we only needed it for me to go to work, and that saved us a bundle.

Also, cloth diapers are much cheaper in the long run than disposable, and despite what you might think they are by and large easier and less stinky to deal with under most circumstances than disposable. If you have a washing machine you can buy your own and wash them at home, if not, even a diaper delivery service is usually cheaper than disposable (and you don't have to be the one to wash them then).

We mostly used a brand called Fuzzi Buns, but cloth diaper technology is advancing faster than computer memory capacity right now.

Dark Archive

Craig Shackleton wrote:
We mostly used a brand called Fuzzi Buns, but cloth diaper technology is advancing faster than computer memory capacity right now.

Self cleaning diapers!


Congrats, CJ!

BTW, they don't get cheaper as they get older.

Suggestions for both you and the wife - Fight the urge for all new baby clothes, especially mass quantities. (You'll need a decent # due to accidents.) Fight the urges for the 'cutest thing I've ever seen'. The kid will grow out of it faster than you can imagine. Second hand stores and Mom-to-Mom sales are great. The clothes are usually in great shape due to the fast-growing issue.

Toy overload - kids do have fun with boxes and sometimes ignore the toy itself. My wife and I, along with our large families, over-indulged our children. Stress quality over quantity. 2nd hand ain't bad to consider here too.

Good luck!

Silver Crusade

Callous Jack wrote:
Not to mention all the diapers and wipes

Hmmm... It might sound stupid, but a friend of mine greatly cut the cost of diapers by using cloth diapers instead of plastic ones (you'll make less waste too). Hope that helps. :-)


Emperor7 wrote:
Toy overload - kids do have fun with boxes and sometimes ignore the toy itself.

I have found that, more than a new toy, my daughter would rather I just play with her.


Craig Shackleton wrote:

Here's something from one of the stay home Dads...

I know you said you can't afford for your wife to stay home, but make sure and do a real cost analysis. My wife and I ended up ahead by me staying home and not putting our kids in daycare. Mind you, we also sold our car, because we only needed it for me to go to work, and that saved us a bundle.

Ditto this, except my wife is the stay at home. It *IS* tough at first financially, but once the lifestyle adjustments click in place (less eating out, maybe even less house, maybe less car (number &/or type)), it's not THAT bad.

Daycare will eat a LOT of money fast. I saw a stat back in 1998 that said that daycare for 2 kids, car expenses, clothes, eating out, etc caused by 2 people working equated to take home pay of about $30k/year. So if one of you is making less than that, you are costing more by working than staying home. Inflation since '98 has probably made the numbers even worse.

Seriously, run REAL numbers on how much it costs. You have to include taxes and be realistic about how much you can change your spending. But we found we actually save MORE with her home than with her working (and she started the 'at home' thing prior to kids due to downsizing. She was right at that $30k mark in '99.

I don't mean to sound like I doubt you. If you've found you can't do it, you can't. No bash intended. However, I've talked to a lot of folks that marvel that we can manage it & find that they won't really check their budgets to see.

Craig Shackleton wrote:


Also, cloth diapers are much cheaper in the long run than disposable, and despite what you might think they are by and large easier and less stinky to deal with under most circumstances than disposable. If you have a washing machine you can buy your own and wash them at home, if not, even a diaper delivery service is usually cheaper than disposable (and you don't have to be the one to wash them then).

We mostly used a brand called Fuzzi Buns, but cloth diaper technology is advancing faster than computer memory capacity right now.

We couldn't abide the idea of dealing with that much poo. You are supposed to flush most of it...and I'm sorry but early the kid makes stuff more akin to paving tar than normal poo!

Still, we have friends that just raved about cloth & the services.

Anyway, congrats on the new addition to the family! It's an amazing thing. Nothing I've ever done has been so difficult, nor so rewarding.
Enjoy! Take insane numbers of pictures, they can change by the millisecond the first few weeks!

The Exchange

Dragnmoon wrote:
Fake Healer wrote:

Catholic school is running around $6000 a year in my area (delaware) and private is running from $7000-12000 roughly.

I would Suggest Public Education, It is a little Cheaper and as long as you are involved in your child's education he/she will do just fine. *Well in a perfect world ;-)*

Yeah well, maybe in your area Public Education is alright. Mine is a cesspit unless you happen to fall within a charter public school's range and manage to get chosen to attend when the school has 5000 applicants and 200 slots to fill. Didn't make the cut. Public around here otherwise isn't an option, so I chose to use money to filter out some of the bad instead of tossing my child in a system that seems to encourage delinquents.


CourtFool wrote:
Emperor7 wrote:
Toy overload - kids do have fun with boxes and sometimes ignore the toy itself.
I have found that, more than a new toy, my daughter would rather I just play with her.

Amen. Of course if you get a big enough box you can make a tank, a house, all kinds of fun. Gotta teach the young ones. And have some fun yourself at the same time!

CJ, you'll be amazed when you watch your child discover everything for the 1st time.

Dark Archive

Remember too that as a Dad, you can buy a lot of things "for your sons" that you really want.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8

David Fryer wrote:
Remember too that as a Dad, you can buy a lot of things "for your sons" that you really want.

Yeah, but watch out for that. That's how my son figured out about Santa. He looked at his presents, looked at my wide and eager eyes, and the jig was up.

Dark Archive

Tarren Dei wrote:
David Fryer wrote:
Remember too that as a Dad, you can buy a lot of things "for your sons" that you really want.
Yeah, but watch out for that. That's how my son figured out about Santa. He looked at his presents, looked at my wide and eager eyes, and the jig was up.

That's why you buy a few things for yourself and put Santa's name on them too.


David Fryer wrote:
Tarren Dei wrote:
David Fryer wrote:
Remember too that as a Dad, you can buy a lot of things "for your sons" that you really want.
Yeah, but watch out for that. That's how my son figured out about Santa. He looked at his presents, looked at my wide and eager eyes, and the jig was up.
That's why you buy a few things for yourself and put Santa's name on them too.

Fair is fair after all...

Scarab Sages

Craig Shackleton wrote:
We mostly used a brand called Fuzzi Buns...

That's what we (my wife) have decided to use.

And yes, long run it will be cheaper, but, man, the up front cost...

Sovereign Court

David Fryer wrote:
Remember too that as a Dad, you can buy a lot of things "for your sons" that you really want.

Haha, I can imagine myself doing that.

Sovereign Court

Nivek wrote:
I don't mean to sound like I doubt you. If you've found you can't do it, you can't. No bash intended. However, I've talked to a lot of folks that marvel that we can manage it & find that they won't really check their budgets to see.

That's fine, you don't know how many people here have suggested that as well. We recently bought a house based on both our salaries, not just mine. The area is expensive but it's also safe with good schools and easy access to highways. The alternative was to buy something my salary could afford which would have put us 30-45 minutes from our jobs in a semi-ghetto area with lousy schools. We made the first choice obviously but at the time, we had no idea how much daycare was, I'm not sure what we would have done had we known.


Callous Jack wrote:
damn, I never realized how expensive daycare is for kids.

Ever consider taking care of them yourself? They will definitely turn out better-adjusted that way.


David Fryer wrote:
That's why you buy a few things for yourself and put Santa's name on them too.

Santa brings the socks and pants. DAD gives the good stuff. Muahahahaha.

As for toys, I told everyone at Christmas to go easy. Sure enough, best toy first Christmas? The big box stuff came in. Drew has loads of toys, he still enjoys the sprite bottle with the two pennies in it, the DVD case, and the rag doll best. Kids! :)

Dark Archive

Just remember that sometimes you're kids will frustrate you beyond belief. Just roll with it. What seems like a frustrating inconvenince at the time may end up being one of your most cherished memories in later years.


Callous Jack wrote:
Nivek wrote:
I don't mean to sound like I doubt you. If you've found you can't do it, you can't. No bash intended. However, I've talked to a lot of folks that marvel that we can manage it & find that they won't really check their budgets to see.
That's fine, you don't know how many people here have suggested that as well. We recently bought a house based on both our salaries, not just mine. The area is expensive but it's also safe with good schools and easy access to highways. The alternative was to buy something my salary could afford which would have put us 30-45 minutes from our jobs in a semi-ghetto area with lousy schools. We made the first choice obviously but at the time, we had no idea how much daycare was, I'm not sure what we would have done had we known.

Have you looked into personal day care, ie area moms? In my area they're less expensive. BUT, you do have to screen them closely.


Callous Jack wrote:
David Fryer wrote:
Remember too that as a Dad, you can buy a lot of things "for your sons" that you really want.
Haha, I can imagine myself doing that.

Just wait 'til your child can read before buying them Paizo stuff, lest your plan be revealed. :)

Sovereign Court

Emperor7 wrote:
Have you looked into personal day care, ie area moms? In my area they're less expensive. BUT, you do have to screen them closely.

To be honest, I wouldn't even know where to look for someone like that. I'm not sure how comfortable we'd be either though with leaving him in the that person's care. At least with daycare, they have to be state-certified.

Sovereign Court

Emperor7 wrote:
Callous Jack wrote:
David Fryer wrote:
Remember too that as a Dad, you can buy a lot of things "for your sons" that you really want.
Haha, I can imagine myself doing that.
Just wait 'til your child can read before buying them Paizo stuff, lest your plan be revealed. :)

Damn.


Emperor7 wrote:
Just wait 'til your child can read before buying them Paizo stuff, lest your plan be revealed. :)

Not necesarely! You can buy it and read it to him! Bedside stories you know! And by the time he can read, he'll be in love already with Paizo!


My wife and I took a nanny, an all day baby-sitter.
She was referred by an agency.
She is pretty good. She takes good care of our son, cooks for him and for us, and takes basic care of the house.
Sure, that's pretty expensive, and we could cut the cost by bringing our little gnome to daycare, but he gets personal care which makes him develop faster.
We are very satisfied.

Sovereign Court

Hugo Solis wrote:
Emperor7 wrote:
Just wait 'til your child can read before buying them Paizo stuff, lest your plan be revealed. :)
Not necesarely! You can buy it and read it to him! Bedside stories you know! And by the time he can read, he'll be in love already with Paizo!

...and then the Ogre stuck a meat hook in the ranger...


Callous Jack wrote:
Emperor7 wrote:
Have you looked into personal day care, ie area moms? In my area they're less expensive. BUT, you do have to screen them closely.
To be honest, I wouldn't even know where to look for someone like that. I'm not sure how comfortable we'd be either though with leaving him in the that person's care. At least with daycare, they have to be state-certified.

A lot of the ones here in MI are state-certified. Schools, churches, community organizations (leagues, etc.) can be good sources to find one.

You can always go the standard route but keep your eyes open for down the road. But it's critical that you check out and continually monitor whatever choice you make. The quality of care outpaces the financial burden.


Callous Jack wrote:
...and then the Ogre stuck a meat hook in the ranger...

I trust your common sense will know how to "fix" those awesome-but-not-too-childlike parts.

-And the ogre rised his booming not-so-happy voice to the ranger to show him its point of view- Hehehe...

Sovereign Court Contributor

Ungoded wrote:
Craig Shackleton wrote:
We mostly used a brand called Fuzzi Buns...

That's what we (my wife) have decided to use.

And yes, long run it will be cheaper, but, man, the up front cost...

Here's another tip: Check on ebay and similar places for second hand. They hold up well, and let's face it, you reusing them is no worse than reusing someone else's.

Also, when you are done, sell them on ebay. Usually you will recoup 50% or more of your investment.

Actually, there are specific auction websites that specialize in cloth diaper resale. I don't remember the names off-hand, but a quick google search should come up with some.

Scarab Sages

Craig Shackleton wrote:
Here's another tip: Check on ebay and similar places for second hand. They hold up well, and let's face it, you reusing them is no worse than reusing someone else's.

So far we've had other people buy them for us, but I will talk to the wife about ebay to finish our "collection," which I suppose we need to do soon. Due date is the 25th.

Craig Shackleton wrote:

Also, when you are done, sell them on ebay. Usually you will recoup 50% or more of your investment.

Actually, there are specific auction websites that specialize in cloth diaper resale. I don't remember the names off-hand, but a quick google search should come up with some.

Good idea. Of course, since we're planning on two eventually, we'll need to hold on to them for awhile.

Sovereign Court Contributor

Congrats Man!

Which I should have said to Callous Jack before too!

Congrats Jack!

I don't get into the off-topic area enough any more. I never know what's going on.

Sovereign Court

Thanks Craig, howzabout as a baby shower gift, you turn in the ship combat rules today?
;-)

Sovereign Court Contributor

Callous Jack wrote:

Thanks Craig, howzabout as a baby shower gift, you turn in the ship combat rules today?

;-)

scurries back to work

The Exchange

Craig Shackleton wrote:
Callous Jack wrote:

Thanks Craig, howzabout as a baby shower gift, you turn in the ship combat rules today?

;-)
scurries back to work

Damn! Crackin' da whip on ya!


Callous Jack wrote:
With a new baby coming, we've started doing the math on that and damn, I never realized how expensive daycare is for kids.

Hey Jack, first, cograts on the new baby. They are expensive but worth it.

Callous Jack wrote:
I may even have to cancel my Pathfinder subscription.

Maybe give up meat instead? ;)

Many people don't realize how much money they waste eating out, buying junk, etc. Now you have to prioritize. Hopefully you will avoid the mistake I made when my kids were young. We just kept spending and ran up the CCards... took us a few years to dig out of that.

Good luck!!


Ungoded wrote:
So far we've had other people buy them for us, but I will talk to the wife about ebay to finish our "collection," which I suppose we need to do soon. Due date is the 25th.

Still live right over by me? We've got bags of stuff, Drew grows freaking fast.

Scarab Sages

mwbeeler wrote:
Ungoded wrote:
So far we've had other people buy them for us, but I will talk to the wife about ebay to finish our "collection," which I suppose we need to do soon. Due date is the 25th.
Still live right over by me? We've got bags of stuff, Drew grows freaking fast.

I live out in Highland, but I work right near you.

Free baby stuff rocks.

Kid already has more stuff than I do, isn't even born yet.


Ungoded wrote:

I live out in Highland, but I work right near you.

Good deal, I'll ask Marcy what she isn't keeping for baby #2, and I'll get in touch. Lots of stuff he only wore once (little guy grows fast), or didn't even get the chance.

Scarab Sages

mwbeeler wrote:
Ungoded wrote:

I live out in Highland, but I work right near you.

Good deal, I'll ask Marcy what she isn't keeping for baby #2, and I'll get in touch. Lots of stuff he only wore once (little guy grows fast), or didn't even get the chance.

Cool, thanks.

My email is ungoded (at) yahoo (dot) com.

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