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Jess Door wrote:
You still have to hit the CMB - one worry (just thinking out loud, I do like the idea!) - will the lower dex and dodgy type bonuses of heavy armor wearers make this too easy?

Not if magic armor enhancement bonuses apply to CMD... hmmm. I also want to have a feat that lets you add your shield bonus to CMB, and use that to replace some of the stupid Pathfinder feats that make shields into better weapons than weapons.

Jess Door wrote:
If they don't balance out, there's an issue. I'll try to look at some numbers tonight.

Thanks! I'll let you look at it independently, then send you my numbers to look at. Between the two of us, there's no way we can mess this up!

Jess Door wrote:
While this has never bothered me to a significant degree, it is the introduction of needless extra terminology - unless there's some other difference between hardness and damage reduction that I am unaware of.

I'm unaware of any... except that adamantine weapons (and, by extension, other enhanced weapons) will often overcome some but not all of it, unlike DR for monsters. So +3 armor would have DR 22/-- (= 10 + 3 x 4), but against a +2 weapon it would only have DR 14.

Liberty's Edge

I'm bringing a 12pk of Shiner tomorrow.


houstonderek wrote:
I'm bringing a 12pk of Shiner tomorrow.

Is that the advance they offered for your thieves' cant work?


Kirth, I cannot seem to find the write up on 'Check'. Could you either send it to me again or have a copy for tonight? Please.

EDIT: Found it. Thanks.


It's in the general houserules page; I think the Improved Check feat is there as well. Don't have access right now, but I'll make sure when I get home.


I have been thinking about the request I made last session. I think it might be a little bit too complicated to add a third Domain to keep up with. So I think it might be best to just drop the idea.

Sovereign Court

silverhair2008 wrote:
I have been thinking about the request I made last session. I think it might be a little bit too complicated to add a third Domain to keep up with. So I think it might be best to just drop the idea.

Another option might be the Devotion feats from Complete Champion (I'm planning on Knowledge Devotion, probably, for Sheraviel - dovetails well with her favored school of Divination).

Healing devotion grants fast healing to yourself 1/day. It immediately kicks in if you are reduced to 0 hit points, but not yet dead. It lasts for 1 minute. You can transfer active fast healing to an ally as a full round action, and you can expend a turn undead attempt (channel?) to turn it on.

Erik: Knowledge devotion allows you to make the appropriate knowledge check to identify a monster, as long as you have one rank in the appropriate knowledge skill. Depending on how high your knowledge check roll is, you get an insight attack bonus against creatures of that type for the duration of the encounter. YOu may make only one knowledge check / creature type / encounter ( no rerolls during that fight for a better bonus ). It also grants you one additional KNowledge skill as a class skill (of limited usefulness to wizards! hehe)


I'll look over the devotion feats this weekend, and probably add them to our master feats list. Thanks for the heads-up!

P.S. Is there somewhere on the Net where I can post all the current versions of all the houserules, so we can all reference them?


I don't know whether you would like to use the Pathfinder Database or Jess' forum.


silverhair2008 wrote:
I don't know whether you would like to use the Pathfinder Database or Jess' forum.

Well, I REALLY dislike the Pathfinder database -- if the whole world can read the stuff, I'd like for them to at least be able to provide honest feedback so I can use their input to help iron out problems. Otherwise, something for just the group would probably be better.

Sovereign Court

Kirth Gersen wrote:
silverhair2008 wrote:
I don't know whether you would like to use the Pathfinder Database or Jess' forum.
Well, I REALLY dislike the Pathfinder database.

Can't really post it on my forum unless you copy and paste them all in - no attachments. I can upload what I have to the server and link to the files, though.

If you sign onto my forum, let me know. I've got spammers trying to get accounts, so I personally OK each account before they're allowed to post. I'll need to approve your account. If you're waiting for approval, let me know you're username.


I didn't know you disliked the database. Where did you post the Classless system?

What do you think of adding a +1/level damage (max+5) to the Lightning Arc for npc's wearing metal armor? Just a question not a request or demand.


Jess Door wrote:
Can't really post it on my forum unless you copy and paste them all in - no attachments. I can upload what I have to the server and link to the files, though.

I was hoping to spare you the onerous chore of constantly cutting and pasting new versions. Maybe for Christmas/Chanukkah/Winter Solstice, I'll go to Kinko's and print up and bind hard copies for everyone -- that way Derek will actually read some of it!


silverhair2008 wrote:
What do you think of adding a +1/level damage (max+5) to the Lightning Arc for npc's wearing metal armor? Just a question not a request or demand.

That doesn't seem unreasonable. Let's see what we can do with it:

  • Isn't the base damage 1d6 +1/2 levels? So the bonus damage shouldn't exceed that.
  • What about people with metal weapons? If the armor makes a difference, then it seems like carrying a giant lightning rod should also make a difference. But then you're at the point where pretty much everyone is taking extra damage.
  • Maybe, instead of bonus damage then, we provide some other bonus that still works? My immediate reaction would be "-1 to saves if metal armor, -1 if metal shield, -1 if metal weapon, and the penalties stack." But that doesn't work, because there's no save. I'd make it a bonus to attack instead, but since it's a touch attack, it's pretty hard to miss people -- especially metal-armored ones (who tend to have low Dex). Or maybe keep bonus damage, but make it +1 for each armor/weapon/shield made predominantly of metal?
  • Whatever we decide, there are trickle-down effects to be aware of. If we improved this ability, we need to similarly improve all of the analogous domain abilities -- and probably all of the bloodline and school abilities that duplicate them as well. Lemme look at all that over the weekend.

    P.S. I'm working on a feat that would enable you, whenever you channel energy, to choose whether to channel positive energy or domain-based energy-related energy (in your case, electrical). Will keep you posted on that.


  • You are correct on the damage. I remembered some type of electrical attack caused extra damage to metal wearing opponents. So I thought I would ask if it was something we might consider. You have a better ability to look at the long term effects than I do.

    EDIT: Maybe think a +1 per 2 levels (max +5)?


    Again, it's the trickle-down effects I'm concerned with; remember that most of the casters in the game have an analogous 1st level power.

  • If we add damage against armored opponents to all those, then all the sudden we make armor suck a lot worse than it does.
  • On the other hand, if we add that damage only to electrical attacks, then the bloodlines/domains/schools with those attacks instantly become far more desireable than the ones with other types.
  • If we try and compensate by making some abilities more effective against unarmored opponents, then we open up a can of worms. Do they work better against monsters with natural armor? What about people with no armor, but an amulet of natural armor +1? Etc.


  • As I think I said, you have a better grasp of the long term effects of doing something like this. If it seemingly makes the game more complicated then we don't need to do it. I think Rim does enough damage now with his Glaive than most PC's do with a full attack action.

    Liberty's Edge

    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    Jess Door wrote:
    Can't really post it on my forum unless you copy and paste them all in - no attachments. I can upload what I have to the server and link to the files, though.
    I was hoping to spare you the onerous chore of constantly cutting and pasting new versions. Maybe for Christmas/Chanukkah/Winter Solstice, I'll go to Kinko's and print up and bind hard copies for everyone -- that way Derek will actually read some of it!

    Man, I have to wait that long???

    ;)


    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    P.S. Is there somewhere on the Net where I can post all the current versions of all the houserules, so we can all reference them?

    I really like what I've seen of Obsidian Portal, a wiki system for rpg campaigns (first one is free [says the pusher]), but it might be more than you're looking for.


    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    P.S. I'm working on a feat that would enable you, whenever you channel energy, to choose whether to channel positive energy or domain-based energy-related energy (in your case, electrical). Will keep you posted on that.

    Work and being a good husband and home computer troubles keep eating away at my free time, but I've been meaning to follow up on our e-mail conversation about the cleric I have in mind for our secondary characters and outlining the troubles I'm having implementing the character concept. However, that feat sounds pretty interesting and applicable, so please let me know about the feat when it's ready, please.

    Also, I'll make every effort to reply this weekend to the last e-mail you sent and just tell you the concept I have in mind.


    Andostre wrote:
    Also, I'll make every effort to reply this weekend to the last e-mail you sent and just tell you the concept I have in mind.

    Great -- if I can't figure out a balanced way to implement it, I view it as a failure on my part as a GM!

    P.S. Working on a way to introduce those secondary characters. Might take a few more sessions, so you've got some time to play with.


    Okay, the following supercedes the related language in the Cleric class description:

    Housrules wrote:
    Channel Elemental Energy: If you have access to one or more elemental domains (Air, Earth, Fire, or Water)—see below—you may choose to channel elemental power instead of channeling positive or negative energy. Once made, this choice cannot be changed except through the Versatile Channeling feat (q.v.). Each time you channel elemental energy, you deal damage of the appropriate energy type. This is otherwise similar to channeling negative energy, except you heal elementals and outsiders of your domain’s elemental subtype, instead of healing undead. Elemental domains, and their associated energy types, are as follows: Air—electricity; earth—acid; fire—fire; water—cold (these make little sense overall, but are consistent with existing rules).

    And some related feats that should supercede any similar ones:

    Housrules wrote:

    CHANNELING, VERSATILE

    Prerequisites: Channel energy class feature, elemental domain.
    Benefit: You can channel both elemental energy (appropriate to your domain) and either positive or negative energy (appropriate to your deity’s alignment). Each time you channel, select one of those types of energy. You cannot channel both types of energy at once, and you do not gain additional channel uses per day.
    Special: If you have access to more than one elemental domain, you can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take this feat, it applies to a new elemental subtype and associated energy type.

    COMMAND/TURN ELEMENTAL
    Prerequisite: Channel elemental energy.
    Benefit: As a standard action, you can use one of your uses of channel elemental energy to enslave extraplanar creatures of the your Domain’s elemental subtype within 30 feet. Elementals receive a Will save to negate the effect. The DC for this Will save is equal to 10 + ½ your caster level + your Charisma modifier. Elementals that fail their saves fall under your control, obeying your commands to the best of their ability, as if under the effects of control undead (but affecting elementals instead of undead). Intelligent elementals receive a new saving throw each day to resist your command. You can control any number of elementals, so long as their total Hit Dice do not exceed your cleric level.
    Elementals of other types are turned instead of commanded (see Turn Undead for details).
    If you use channel energy in this way, it has no other effect (it does not heal or harm nearby creatures). If an elemental creature is under the control of another creature, you must make an opposed Charisma check whenever your orders conflict.


    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    Andostre wrote:
    Also, I'll make every effort to reply this weekend to the last e-mail you sent and just tell you the concept I have in mind.

    Great -- if I can't figure out a balanced way to implement it, I view it as a failure on my part as a GM!

    P.S. Working on a way to introduce those secondary characters. Might take a few more sessions, so you've got some time to play with.

    Sent!

    I might be offline until late Monday.


    How are we on beer? I was planning on bringing some, tonight, but if there's still not room from last week's stash, I'll hold off another week.

    (What a good problem to have....)

    Sovereign Court

    I loooooooooove creating characters to fit a certain concept. I don't know what your cleric concept is, but if you want someone else to ferret through rules systems looking for mechanical representations that might fit your concept, let me know. :)


    Start with disguising holy symbols. :)

    Either disguising, or being able to cast without revealing them.


    Sheraviel looks around the blood spattered room, pausing to stare at the body of the evil priestess and the astrally projected dwarf, then shakes her head.

    What a mess it is in here!

    Sovereign Court

    Andostre wrote:

    Start with disguising holy symbols. :)

    Either disguising, or being able to cast without revealing them.

    Hm....look at Eschew Materials and maybe Ur-Priests.


    Hey, Kirth, in case you forgot I have two other PC's that can be used if Rim bites the dust. One you should remember is a Runeblade, but the other is a Druid. Just wanted to refresh your memory.


    silverhair2008 wrote:
    Hey, Kirth, in case you forgot I have two other PC's that can be used if Rim bites the dust. One you should remember is a Runeblade, but the other is a Druid. Just wanted to refresh your memory.

    I remember well! I've got tentive plans on placing the runeblade. The druid can wait for now. Hope Rim lasts a bit longer, though!


    I don't have a good reason for his actions last night. I think part of it was because he felt like doing more than just standing aside while others took an active part in the action.

    EDIT: If it gets to this point, recall Rim can be sent on a quest to atone for his past actions.

    Liberty's Edge

    silverhair2008 wrote:
    I don't have a good reason for his actions last night. I think part of it was because he felt like doing more than just standing aside while others took an active part in the action.

    Yep, that's what gets souls damned for eternity.

    silverhair2008 wrote:
    EDIT: If it gets to this point, recall Rim can be sent on a quest to atone for his past actions.

    Dude, you'd have to make Demogorgon stop kicking puppies to atone for some of that stuff...


    silverhair2008 wrote:
    I don't have a good reason for his actions last night.

    It was sure fun, though!

    You and I will have to work out together how much of his behavior was due to him, and how much was due to that tooth he's wearing now.


    There are cetain members of the party that Rim wouldn't trust, so I don't think it's a stretch that Rim would implant the tooth to keep it away from them. Of the members that he might trust, I don't see it as a Rim-like thing to do to ask them to implant the tooth, in his stead.

    Agun doesn't feel that Rim's actions were the wisest actions, and that probably causes some new trust issues with Agun (especially since Agun was trying to avoid a violent interaction by asking Rim to give up his weapons), but I don't think anything Rim did was particularly out of character.


    He ripped out his own tooth and stuck a blackened rotten tooth in his head.

    Sheraviel shudders

    ...in his head!

    Next thing you know, he'll try stuffing that beach ball in his eye socket!


    Sheraviel, do you think it might help me see better? If so, I might think about it.


    Kirth, along your line of thought, if the tooth was related somehow to the guy in the little room as it got closer to him it became more insistent on being placed in someone's mouth.

    Agun, you are correct that I wouldn't ask someone to do what I wouldn't do myself. Besides I didn't trust Luela. Sort of glad she's gone.

    Sheraviel, one we had to find out what that tooth would do to know what to do with it. Two, now we know who it is attracted to and can work toward correcting that mistake.

    Sovereign Court

    silverhair2008 wrote:
    Sheraviel, one we had to find out what that tooth would do to know what to do with it. Two, now we know who it is attracted to and can work toward correcting that mistake.

    Hehe, you are talking to a character with an extremely cautious nature who would rather research consequences before action is taken who is played by a person whose only unequivocally liked part of herself is her brain, who constantly has nightmares about her teeth cracking and falling out of her head....and Rim stuck a random blackened tooth in his head to see what would happen.

    My character and I agree that that is something we could never, ever, ever do without being tied down and forced to do it. Your actions do not compute. ^_-


    And you are talking to a person that has only three real teeth in his head. So what do you think is the difference between false teeth and a blackened tooth in a fantasy game? ;D


    We found it in an ensorcelled altar with a two headed snake!!!!!! And the creepy sorceror of poopy snake doom suggested we use it to see what would happen! Ah!

    Sheraviel's head a-splode


    This is where Kirth and silverhair get together to figure out how Rim got convinced to go along with 'poopy snake guy's' suggestion to implant the tooth. Could he have been using a spell of Suggestion or Charm Person? It is possible. Could the tooth have been influencing Rim to place it in his mouth?

    Could the tooth have influenced Rim at the house when he walked away from Cadigan torturing the cultist? We may never know for sure. Walking away from possible torture of a sentient being is certainly not natural for Rim. Something caused him to act that way.


    Funny how a simple protection from evil cast on the tooth brings Rim back to normal, isn't it?


    Amazing how that happens!


    How long are we saying Protection From Evil lasts?


    It lasts 1 min./lvl (GRRRR!) for the combat bonuses, etc., unless we decide otherwise. However, it'll protect you from secondhand possession effects via old relics for 24 hours.


    Man.

    I really need to learn to pocket evil artifacts when I find them, lest the "plank up the butt" sorts go and stick them in their mouth...


    Derek, I'd love to see you play a "plank up the butt" sort. :)


    Andostre wrote:
    Derek, I'd love to see you play a "plank up the butt" sort. :)

    His genetically-challenged dwarven cleric of the God of Lawfulness or whatever was hilarious. Derek had to be hung over to play him properly, though. ;P


    Andostre wrote:
    Derek, I'd love to see you play a "plank up the butt" sort. :)

    Please forgive the intrusion and smartassness guys, but I've been glancing at this thread from time to time and I HAD to respond to this.

    Why would you guys want Derek to lose the thrill of roleplaying a character and have to bring his own personality into the game?

    (Just messing Derek)

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