Out of curiosity, what kind of mapping software does Paizo use?
Out of curiosity, what kind of mapping software does Paizo use?However if you are looking for decent map making software and don't want to learn photoshop, Dundjinni is probably a great choice.
Trent
Unless you're planning on publishing your adventures in which case Dundjinni's ridiculous EULA makes it a bad choice.
This question used to come up all the time when Dungeon was a going concern with Paizo. The answer from the pro's was always Photoshop. Sometimes they would also be using something like Adobe Illustrator along with Photoshop.
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Out of curiosity, what kind of mapping software does Paizo use?However if you are looking for decent map making software and don't want to learn photoshop, Dundjinni is probably a great choice.
Trent
Unless you're planning on publishing your adventures in which case Dundjinni's ridiculous EULA makes it a bad choice.
Really? How so? Looks like I have to read a bit further down..
Really? How so? Looks like I have to read a bit further down..
Unless they've changed it, you could make maps with the Dundjinni software but you couldn't actually publish the maps if you made them with the artwork that came with the program. If you wanted to publish, you had to come up with your own art work or get it from the free art that the community of users put out there.
A stupid decision, but there you have it.
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Really? How so? Looks like I have to read a bit further down..
Unless they've changed it, you could make maps with the Dundjinni software but you couldn't actually publish the maps if you made them with the artwork that came with the program. If you wanted to publish, you had to come up with your own art work or get it from the free art that the community of users put out there.
A stupid decision, but there you have it.
Well that's just plain dumb. Kills my idea.
Well that's just plain dumb. Kills my idea.
Well, Dunjinni owns the art that comes with the program. If they don't want you distributing it, that's their business.
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Well, Dunjinni owns the art that comes with the program. If they don't want you distributing it, that's their business.
Well that's just plain dumb. Kills my idea.
Ah! Here we go!
Looks like they changed the EULA recently.
Well, Dunjinni owns the art that comes with the program. If they don't want you distributing it, that's their business.
Yeah, but its an asinine decision.
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If you wanted to publish, you had to come up with your own art work or get it from the free art that the community of users put out there.
If you were wanting to publish your own works then you should probably be using photoshop anyways. And keep in mind that the original EULA was about making commercial products with Dundjinni, not publishing.
However that has been changed and Dundjinni's EULA now includes provisions for making commercial products with their software.
I'd still recommend Photoshop, but it has a bit of a learning curve where as Dundjinni is a far simpler program to learn to use.
Trent Slabaugh
Infinet Media & Design
Ah! Here we go!Looks like they changed the EULA recently.
Ah. Well that's nice. I know people complained about it for some time. It's the reason I never purchased the software. Maybe I'll look at it again now.
I have Campaign Cartographer, and once I get around to learning how to use it properly, I will see what I can do about putting Golarion into a single map.
There is a feature that allows you to link maps together, so as your cursor goes over Sandpoint, you can get the Sandpoint map, and from there the different maps for the Catacombs, etc...
I was kinda hoping that Paizo was using this, and that a "map" CD would be a futur product.
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Trent is right. If you want to create professional looking maps, Photoshop is the way to go. Sure, CC and Dundjinni might be a bit simpler, because it's already aimed at creating RPG maps, but that's also limiting. With Photoshop you can do nearly everything and it's not that hard to learn. I guess in about the same time you need to figure out CC to make decent looking maps, you could get the same result in Photoshop and the programm is much more versatile and can be used for a wide variety of other projects; not just maps (think about handouts, character sheets and other stuff).
And if Photoshop seems to be too expensive (it is!), than you can use GIMP, a free programm that's very similar to PS. There are only minor differences between the two programs and none of these differences play any role for the designing of great looking RPG maps. It takes some time to learn the basics of the programs, but there are many very good and free tutorials on the web, that make the process of learning pure fun.
I find a combination of Bryce 5 (they released a completely free version a while back) and Photoshop to be very handy indeed when creating maps. :)
I haven't looked at photoshop before.
So, what kind of artistic abilities do I need to draw in all the fun features, like tables, doors, supplies, dragons, etc...
I know that in Campaign Cartographer, you get all kinds of nice little pieces of art to cover all of that.
Which photoshop?
Photoshop 7
Photoshop CS3
Photoshop Lightroom 2
Photoshop Elements 6
the list goes on
So, what kind of artistic abilities do I need to draw in all the fun features, like tables, doors, supplies, dragons, etc...I know that in Campaign Cartographer, you get all kinds of nice little pieces of art to cover all of that.
You'd have to do all that yourself, as Photoshop does not come with the art. You can import/place pictures into a Photoshop file, if you have the preexisting art.
Lightroom is more for Photography/RAW camera editing. Photoshop 7/CS3 is more than sufficient, while Photoshop Elements is kinda like Photoshop Lite.
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I haven't looked at photoshop before.
So, what kind of artistic abilities do I need to draw in all the fun features, like tables, doors, supplies, dragons, etc...
Photoshop is a full featured graphic design / manipulation piece of software. Now while it allows you to do anything.. that's also the downside. 99.9% of all magazine covers have some photoshop work done to them.. Don't like a model's hair or eye color.. do a manipulation of the image in Photoshop.
I've been working with Photoshop since 1995 and I still don't know everything, and I'm certified in using the software.
Most of the stuff you are probably looking to create would be easier to create using 3D software like Bryce (as Lilith suggested).
I don't mean to be a naysayer when it comes to Photoshop though. Keep in mind it isn't drag and drop like CC2 or Dundjinni.
A lot of the stuff I create for my games, I use objects that other people have created and use photoshop for the map itself.
For a sample Mistwalker, everything in this image was done in Photoshop.
Trent
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Doesn't a lot of "drawing" in photoshop require you to use one of those computer pens? I can't much imagine someone doing a map with the mouse. :)
I use a mouse almost exclusively.. I do have a graphics tablet and pen for air brush effects, etc. I've found that I have much better hand at graphics using a mouse than a tablet, its just "too" sensitive.
Besides I've always said that if you want me to create something with a pen and piece of paper the best I can do is a stick figure.
Keep in mind too there is a big difference between a graphic designer and a graphic artist. I've never claimed to be an artist ;)
Trent
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Doesn't a lot of "drawing" in photoshop require you to use one of those computer pens? I can't much imagine someone doing a map with the mouse. :)
I use a wacom tablet / lcd screen now, but used a mouse for ages and ages and ages.
A lot of the things you do to make overland maps use either very large brushes covering vast swathes of land, or very very zoomed in little brushes making little bitty trees or rocks or what have you. It's way easier with even the entry level wacom tablet, but a mouse still works fine. The guy over at zombie nirvana has some good tutorials for beginning map makers.
I just can't imagine drawing trees, hills, or mountains looking good with a mouse. Yeah there's a lot of stuff you can do in photoshop with a mouse.. but original sketching? I'd love to see some samples. :)
I've tried sketching with a mouse, and I want to stab my eyes out. Wacom is shiny good good, and I will never not have one. (I had three at one point.)
That being said...there are a lot of folk who can do absolutely incredible things with a mouse in Photoshop. It's mind boggling. I am not one of those people. :P
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I'm a huge fan of Campaign Cartographer and all of Profantasy's software. I've been using CC for almost a decade and love the new features in CC3. It's based on a computer-aided drafting engine, so it takes some getting used to, but I took three years of mechanical drawing in high school and worked for an engineering firm in college, so it was easy for me to start with.
CC3 has a lot more artistic features than its predecessors. I'm still waiting for City Designer 3, but in the meantime, I was able to produce the following:
- Town of Falcon's Hollow
- Falcon's Hollow Environs
Nice maps.
Did you link them?
I have CC2, and am thinking of upgrading to CC3.
How useful will the Tome of Ultimate Mapping be with CC3?
Grin
are you planning on doing a lot of Golarion?
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Nice maps.
Did you link them?
I have CC2, and am thinking of upgrading to CC3.
How useful will the Tome of Ultimate Mapping be with CC3?Grin
are you planning on doing a lot of Golarion?
Thanks!
I haven't used the Tome of Ultimate Mapping much, but the techniques in it should be applicable to CC3...most of them, anyway.
I will probably do more maps of Golarion. Unfortunately, I find that I'm much better at converting existing maps into CC3 format than I am at creating my own maps...cities in particular are tough for me. I'm pretty good at taking a drawing and creating a decent map from it, though.
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HERE is a piece I did for a game.. all done with photoshop and mouse :)
Trent
Very nice, Trent. I especially like the stream.
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HERE is a piece I did for a game.. all done with photoshop and mouse :)
Ok, pretty cool, I stand corrected. :)
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I haven't looked at photoshop before.
So, what kind of artistic abilities do I need to draw in all the fun features, like tables, doors, supplies, dragons, etc...I know that in Campaign Cartographer, you get all kinds of nice little pieces of art to cover all of that.
If using PS or GIMP, you could mine the maps from the Dungeon Web Supplements or the PF PDFs for elements. You can cut the stuff you need out and place it on your map. It would take some time to gather a library of icons like you have in CC, but it can be done. So, there's not really a need to have artistic abilities to come up with decent results. I'm drawing my maps free hand and then scan them and give them an overhaul with GIMP. Here's an example of one of my recent maps:
Truvanesh|
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Here's an example of one of my recent maps:
Truvanesh
Wow. Really nice, Absinth.
I haven't done much work with mapping since Pathfinder came out. (I'm using maps from the PDF and there's no real way I can improve on Paizo's cartography.). I do enjoy it, but get frustrated trying to actually do the initial design of a city.
Anyone know any PSP or GIMP tutorials that would be useful for people who want to make maps?
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Anyone know any PSP or GIMP tutorials that would be useful for people who want to make maps?
There are quite a few useful sites but as someone mentioned before.. I'd check out Zombie Nirvana Games tutorials.
Trent
Anyone know any PSP or GIMP tutorials that would be useful for people who want to make maps?There are quite a few useful sites but as someone mentioned before.. I'd check out Zombie Nirvana Games tutorials.
Trent
Yeah they're mostly Photoshop. I have PSP and GIMP.
That said, looks like a lot the info would be useful if I can find the corresponding PSP commands. Thanks for the link.
Anyone know any PSP or GIMP tutorials that would be useful for people who want to make maps?There are quite a few useful sites but as someone mentioned before.. I'd check out Zombie Nirvana Games tutorials.
Trent
Yeah they're mostly Photoshop. I have PSP and GIMP.
That said, looks like a lot the info would be useful if I can find the corresponding PSP commands. Thanks for the link.
My suggestion for Gimp (or Photoshop) is to just sit down and start. I new nothing when I began and I have absolutely no artistic talent. Despite this my maps have become impressive works of art that blow my players away. My secret is the 'snap to grid' function and the ability to draw a straight line using the pencil tool while holding down the shift key. My suggestion is you just sit down and start. You'll learn all sorts of tricks simply by experimenting and Gimp won't even cost you anything.
Another tool you might want to explore is Inkscape which is a free illistrator.
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Exactly, I second everything Jeremy said.
Btw, does anyone know a site on which I can find liquid-looking textures for GIMP or does anybody know a way I could create these myself? I haven't toyed much with textures yet, but now that I know the basics of GIMP, I'd like to use textures. My maps look too flat for my taste...
Exactly, I second everything Jeremy said.
Btw, does anyone know a site on which I can find liquid-looking textures for GIMP or does anybody know a way I could create these myself? I haven't toyed much with textures yet, but now that I know the basics of GIMP, I'd like to use textures. My maps look too flat for my taste...
I don't know of any such source but if you find one let me know. I'd love some new textures, especially interesting ones I can use as the back ground for handouts.
Check out the textures here at DeviantArt. Most people post them for free use, but check their usage terms.
Also, learn how to play around with channels in GIMP/Photoshop. A image of a placid pond can easily turn into a fiery pit with some tweaking of the colors.
Somebody started a thread on Blank Campaign Maps here that I posted some how-tos in as well.
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Yah! Now this is my kind of Thread! I own Photoshop 7, Campaign Cartographer 3 and Dunjinni. What can I say, they are all good in their own ways. Dunjinni would go right beside just about anything created for Flip-Mats, Map Packs and Dungeon Tiles. Campaign Cartographer 3 is just plain powerful. It is really a Campaign World Map Maker, but can be used for anything that is well above the scenery (as in not miniature rules-like) You can really whip out a world there. Photoshop however is the program to "turn to" when you want to get extreme exactness with your creation.
As the poster above said, you really can't know everything about Photoshop. It is an "anything goes" tool. The other two programs above (CC3 & DJ) use rules to help craft your work in a environment that has premade art. Photoshop can take all that to another level of detail outside those excellent programs.
Though it would be interesting to hear what programs Paizo uses for map-building, I think Photoshop is more than likely. With a pleothra of base maps, objects, preset layers and judicious use of tried and true textures, one could imitate both CC3 and Dunjinni quite easily. I would say that buying DJ and CC3 is more about buying into a program that has eye candy for bait (albeit excellent eye candy). It would be a lot nicer if you could just buy Photoshop and then get the eye candy from another source.
I firmly believe that Photoshop education is never a waste and the sooner one starts the better. You really can't be a wizard of maps if you master only CC3 and DJ, but you sure will become a great map maker if you develop expertise in Photoshop.
Cheers,
Zuxius
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It may sound weird, but I've used Powerpoint to create city and overland maps - nothing spectacular, but they're serviceable.
The cities I developed for the DMtools World project were all done in this way. I tried to link to them, but the site seemed to be down.
I've been toying with getting CC3. I had the older version that came with the 2E Core Rules software. The only thing really holding me back is that I’m not sure if it will work with Windows Vista.
I have Campaign Cartographer, and once I get around to learning how to use it properly, I will see what I can do about putting Golarion into a single map.
There is a feature that allows you to link maps together, so as your cursor goes over Sandpoint, you can get the Sandpoint map, and from there the different maps for the Catacombs, etc...
I was kinda hoping that Paizo was using this, and that a "map" CD would be a futur product.
Actually, only a few "Professionals" seem to use CC. Being basically a CAD program its simply not in the vocabulary of the Cartographer. Some professional Cartographers complain that CC make things too "boxy". As a GIS person, I find that it really doesn't do Geography all that well anyway. I'd rather try to lay things out in ArcGIS rather than use CC, but that's not an option for almost any normal person.
That all said, yes things like what your talking about is pretty cool. Still even with the proliferation of computers most sit down gaming is done with out the help of one. I know I've wanted to use one but my laptops have always been way too big.
I do all of my maps in Photoshop - it gives them a less generic look.
I get jealous sometimes looking at the pretty maps that programs like CC3 can make, but then I think "hey, anyone with enough money to pay for that can make those".
They use Robert Lazzaretti. :)
In my opinion, Rob is quickly becoming the Wayne Reynolds of the mapping world. I love his maps and so do a lot of people.
I became a fan of his when I first saw his work in WotC's Map Folio products - Beautiful attention to detail.
Not like those horrendous 'satelite images' that WotC has in their FRCG book coming out soon - I vomit everytime I see one of the excerpts.
I think its time for me to re-tool my texture set in PS to the PF style. :D
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I get jealous sometimes looking at the pretty maps that programs like CC3 can make, but then I think "hey, anyone with enough money to pay for that can make those".
[mock outrage]Hey! I resemble that remark! [/mock outrage]
In many respects, you're correct. I definitely paid (and continue to pay with each upgrade) for the relative ease of producing maps with CC3. There are probably many people who will argue that CC3 is NOT easy, because it uses a Computer-Aided Drafting (CAD) engine, rather than an object-based system. Its interface requires getting used to. Thankfully, there's a big community at the Profantasy website to help.
Still, the results you can get from CC3 are vastly superior to the CC2 drawings, which were styled more like the AD&D Forgotten Realms maps. I know that a lot of folks use CC3 for most of the effects, then export the maps as image files and touch them up in Photoshop.