The new many shot feat takes the position of the rapid shot feat for most purposes, In 3,5 the rapid shoot grant you an additional attack during a full attack action at -2, thus being the equivalent of improved two weapon fighting in range. And Many Shoot as a STANDAR action allows you to shoot 2 arrows or more with a penalty as well -4. That made both feats distinct, the rapid shot add more attacks to full attack and the many shot was used to take a move action and shot more than one arrow. Now the Many shoot is an extra arrow during you fist shoot in a full attack without penalty, becoming pretty much the same as rapid shoot but without the penalty. I know that rapid shoot is a lower level feat, but I am certainly against feats that are just steps with no purpose of their own. I think those feats should be back the way they were, or some other arrangement. Anyone has any suggestions?
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I was a little disappointed that the standard action aspect was taken away from Manyshot. It was kinda nice to ready an action against a caster and nail him with multiple arrows to disrupt the spell. PFRPG's Manyshot doesn't allow that.
However, I really have yet to use Manyshot in PFRPG, so I can't make an honest decision about it.
hadn't noticed that. probably an attempt to make many shot a bit better, it was always a cool, but ultimately useless, feat in my book. There were not too many times I can recall that an archer really needed to move somewhere... so why not just full attack w/ rapid shot? Also the penalties for many shot were quite harsh.
I'd prefer if they kept it a standard action and maybe reduce the penalties a bit.. to make it compete, but hey, nobody asked me...
I played an archer in Monte Cook's Iron Heroes setting, and I really tried to play an archer with mobility as his focus.... it didn't work. No matter what i tried, even with the feats/skills that lets me melee with my bow, tumble into position and pile on d6s of sneak attack... it was rarely more worth it than sitting back in one place with my 'shotgun', and making a full attack. Between rapid shot and many shot, rapid shot was a ton more useful... many shot sucked, its even worse in IH because the penalties are steeper.
But anyway, yeah, penalties for many shot are too high, and between that and the fact that rapid shot specifically *does* allow more precision based damage and other damage that manyshot arrows dont get, rapid shot is just way better.
In campaign Many shot becomes very useful in more complex scenarios were the targets try to ovoid the damage from the ranger or moving environments (trains can be lot of fun). Forcing the ranger to keep moving to have them in sight of to avoid harassing enemies. In any case, I think a way to improve the many shot would be to make it standard action again with -2. Also make the damage form many shoot add up for purpose of damage reduction. Giving the ranger a way to deal some damage to those pesky DR 10 creatures.
How about make it "in lieu of an attack, but no more than once per round"? That way you can use it in a full attack, but also as a standard action.
Really, the only class I've ever seen Manyshot used successfully with (in normal 3.5) is the Scout...and then only once they have Improved Manyshot so they can add skirmish damage to each arrow.
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hadn't noticed that. probably an attempt to make many shot a bit better, it was always a cool, but ultimately useless, feat in my book. There were not too many times I can recall that an archer really needed to move somewhere... so why not just full attack w/ rapid shot? Also the penalties for many shot were quite harsh.
I'd prefer if they kept it a standard action and maybe reduce the penalties a bit.. to make it compete, but hey, nobody asked me..
Well, I agree with you. =)
How about make it "in lieu of an attack, but no more than once per round"? That way you can use it in a full attack, but also as a standard action.
Really, the only class I've ever seen Manyshot used successfully with (in normal 3.5) is the Scout...and then only once they have Improved Manyshot so they can add skirmish damage to each arrow.
The only problem is that still overlaps Rapid Shot. That idea although neat makes the rapid shot completely useless. It is still shooting one more arrow per shot but under PFRPG with out penalties.
The only problem is that still overlaps Rapid Shot. That idea although neat makes the rapid shot completely useless. It is still shooting one more arrow per shot but under PFRPG with out penalties.
Right, but you could use both. So you could get 1 extra shot with Manyshot, and add an additional extra shot by using Rapid Shot too, but you'd take the penalty then.
Right, but you could use both. So you could get 1 extra shot with Manyshot, and add an additional extra shot by using Rapid Shot too, but you'd take the penalty then.The only problem is that still overlaps Rapid Shot. That idea although neat makes the rapid shot completely useless. It is still shooting one more arrow per shot but under PFRPG with out penalties.
Not really because they are both combat feats. So you can only turn on one at the time. Besides the old many shoot allowed you to shoot more arrows. And it was useful for DR (since probably thou misread I did added damage for DR)
Not really because they are both combat feats. So you can only turn on one at the time. Besides the old many shoot allowed you to shoot more arrows. And it was useful for DR (since probably thou misread I did added damage for DR)
They are, but combat feats aren't 1/round in the Beta. As for DR... the old Manyshot had DR apply to each arrow, too. See?
They are, but combat feats aren't 1/round in the Beta. As for DR... the old Manyshot had DR apply to each arrow, too. See?Not really because they are both combat feats. So you can only turn on one at the time. Besides the old many shoot allowed you to shoot more arrows. And it was useful for DR (since probably thou misread I did added damage for DR)
Interisting. Thay aren't, how do they work now?
And the Dr thing was a suggested improvement to allow ranged player to overcome some DR.
Interisting. Thay aren't, how do they work now?
Combat feats now work just like normal feats, but any feat labeled a combat feat is also available as a Fighter bonus feat.
And some combat feats will be "altered" as a result of removing the 1/round restriction.
We just don't have the specifics yet on which, and how.
-S
What if rabid shot were modeled after TWF and it's tree? Rabid shot gives one extar attack at minus 2. Improved rapid shot gives another attack, and greater gives a third. Like so (Assumes dex of 20): Rabid shot +3/+3, improved rapid shot +9/+9/+4/+4, and greater +14/+14/+9/+9/+4/+4 (not counting other feats or items etc.)