What issues were you having with the Kenku?
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Mazes in general, are difficult to pull off.
The combination of the battlemat/floorplans, and the players drawing a map (when the PCs probably would be too busy) mean they have a much greater sense of location than they should, negating the fear and confusion of being lost.
It needs to be asked 'Who's drawing this map?', 'Who's doing the measuring?', 'Who's holding the light source?'.
It sure isn't going to be the dual-scimitar ranger, who sleeps with one eye open, and has both weapons drawn at all times so he can't be jumped, it won't be the greatsword power attack guy, who tucks it under one arm and can't go round corners, and it won't be the cleric with a mace, a shield, a wand and a potion at the ready.
Well I ran this like a skill challenge with 4E and it was awesome.
I just modified it so that everytime the Pcs gained a failure they were attacked by the Kenkus or they got even more lost ( it negated a success).
Total failure of the challenge (which did not happen for my group) meant that the Pcs fell into a huge Kenku Ambush of near TPK proportions.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4
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How are you presenting the map?
When I ran this, I was able to use tact-tiles (it's a tragedy these things are no longer in production...) and just erase from the board when the PC's moved too far. One player mapped on graph paper as we did this.
I upped the corridors to 10' wide, giving both kenku and PC's more options (I have 7 characters, so it was pretty necessary)
I always had the kenku strike from a position where they could dart around a corner (out of sight) and reach a secret door within a single move.
Always, always hit-and-run. The kenku simply will not stand and fight melee for a second longer than they have to. Suprise attack with crossbow, then into the secret passage.
Well I ran this like a skill challenge with 4E and it was awesome.
I just modified it so that everytime the Pcs gained a failure they were attacked by the Kenkus or they got even more lost ( it negated a success).
Total failure of the challenge (which did not happen for my group) meant that the Pcs fell into a huge Kenku Ambush of near TPK proportions.
This sounds like a great idea to me! Plodding through a maze of twisty passages is one of my least favourite parts of D&D.
This sounds like a great idea to me! Plodding through a maze of twisty passages is one of my least favourite parts of D&D.Well I ran this like a skill challenge with 4E and it was awesome.
I just modified it so that everytime the Pcs gained a failure they were attacked by the Kenkus or they got even more lost ( it negated a success).
Total failure of the challenge (which did not happen for my group) meant that the Pcs fell into a huge Kenku Ambush of near TPK proportions.
Yeah, I have never had success with Mazes & RPGs. When I first saw the map on AOW I decided I would just skip that part, then I read the skill challenge rules and voila!
The best part is that incorporating the skill use descriptions(from my players) and adding my own brand of creepy narration it really creates a nice tone.
I didn't wrote the actual skill challenge, I mostly improved it.
Like Raidou said. And just don't let them map--it's metagaming. If they stand there long enough to figure out how long the corridor is, they take three sneak attacks from the Kenku.
I ran mine with tac-tiles, and it worked quite well. Every once in a while I erased, spun the tile around to create a little disorientation. After about three times around the whole maze, my player started to memorize the maze and had a good idea where most of the secret doors were, which I felt was a bit more realistic.
The skill challenge is another good way to do it, if you don't have the patience or equipment to run it straight out.
One way i've seen them done in the past (not in this particular encounter, but mazes in general).
Draw a corridor on the battlegrid. Make it as wide as the corridor, and as long/short as you deem necessary.
Just use that for battles.
Then, instead of drawing/mapping out the place, just use the map as Your guide (the DM) and verbally walk them through it.
i.e.
"approximately 30 feet ahead you see a T intersection- with passage ways going off to the right and left. there is no lightsource from ahead of you but you can't see around the corners yet"
PC's:
"we approach the intersection cautiously, looking around the corners for light ... etc"
That way you keep the feel of "being lost" since unless one PC actively draws some sort of map, they will get lost.
Give accurate directions but DO not correct the PC's if the artist makes a mistake.
It does take a little time but it can help keep the feel of a maze.
(it does get amazingly boring though if the maze is particularly large, or if the PC's are particularly unlucky in picking directions..)
-S
The skill challenge is another good way to do it, if you don't have the patience or equipment to run it straight out.
I play in play-by-post or play-by-email games, so it's fairly tedious for the DM to keep sending out posts that say "O.K., you come to a T intersection; do you go left or right?" and wait for all of the players to vote on it.
Draw a corridor on the battlegrid. Make it as wide as the corridor, and as long/short as you deem necessary. Just use that for battles. Then, instead of drawing/mapping out the place, just use the map as Your guide (the DM) and verbally walk them through it.
"approximately 30 feet ahead you see a T intersection- with passage ways going off to the right and left. there is no lightsource from ahead of you but you can't see around the corners yet"
That way you keep the feel of "being lost" since unless one PC actively draws some sort of map, they will get lost.
Give accurate directions but DO not correct the PC's if the artist makes a mistake. It does take a little time but it can help keep the feel of a maze.
That's exactly how I do it!
The skill challenge is another good way to do it, if you don't have the patience or equipment to run it straight out.I play in play-by-post or play-by-email games, so it's fairly tedious for the DM to keep sending out posts that say "O.K., you come to a T intersection; do you go left or right?" and wait for all of the players to vote on it.
I see. The medium makes a huge difference. I'm DMing a PbP game, but haven't tried to run an encounter like that one. I have a crude but effective mapping setup that I use and post to illustrate the game, so I might be able to pull it off. I guess I'd be running this in initiative mode once contact with the enemy is made, so no need to vote--just move on your turn.
Do you have any techniques you use for dungeon-crawl PbP generally that help move the game along? I've only done a little stuff in this mode in my current game, and I've found that you either need a leader who's online a lot to make the "right or left turn?" decisions, or you've got to move the party based on the vote of the first person to post. Otherwise, it could take a couple of weeks to navigate a fairly simple set of corridors, not to speak of a maze.
In any event, I could see rolling a skill check in place of blow by blow navigational decisions under these circumstances, and thank you for the idea.
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I’d be interested if anyone has any further thoughts on how to run this area (or other mazes and large dungeons in a play by post format.
I’ve actually just started a thread for discussion / ideas sharing for DMs running AoW as a play by post game here, as there a few of us running such games here.
I’d welcome any input, help or questions!
I see. The medium makes a huge difference. I'm DMing a PbP game, but haven't tried to run an encounter like that one. I have a crude but effective mapping setup that I use and post to illustrate the game, so I might be able to pull it off. I guess I'd be running this in initiative mode once contact with the enemy is made, so no need to vote--just move on your turn.
I agree that mapping is not generally a problem; there are various solutions out there. Letting each player decide individually where to move wouldn't work very well in my experience; I find it takes at least two or three days to wait for every player to finish making a decision if it's more complicated than "I hit the guy on the left".
Do you have any techniques you use for dungeon-crawl PbP generally that help move the game along? I've only done a little stuff in this mode in my current game, and I've found that you either need a leader who's online a lot to make the "right or left turn?" decisions, or you've got to move the party based on the vote of the first person to post. Otherwise, it could take a couple of weeks to navigate a fairly simple set of corridors, not to speak of a maze.
For a single set of corridors, it can be as simple as setting a general rule like: "We move along in our marching order, looking into any side rooms we find." It really helps for the DM to skip over rooms that aren't important.
Having a leader (or at least a proactive player who posts quickly) helps a bit, too.
The best way to speed things along is to have fewer big fights instead of a more small fights (but that doesn't have to do with dungeon-crawling in particular).