So my first group of Newbs looks like its coming together and we'll probably play in three or so weeks. Enough Time for me to put together an adventure and to obsess about some issues.
The adventure I'd like to use for them is Whispering Cairn. I'll have to convert it of course but that is not that hard. I like this adventure as it involves a number of switches between going into and out of an interesting, almost classical feeling Dungeon, but mixing that up with interesting missions around the town.
So I'm interested in advice in two areas in particular (of course I'll consider advice on all relevant topics however).
One of the things that has me thinking is the starting characters. In this case I don't have a group thats prepping for a campaign. I have a group that wants to try a game. Big difference - no matter how good I am I'm sure some of the players will never play again, they'll have tried D&D and decided its not for them. Thats fine, but I want to emphasize that I have maybe 10 hours or so in which to show off the game. If its good enough in that period I might get even the reluctant players to come back and 'finish' this adventure in the following week. My main goal here is to rope in the players that would be interested but are just not aware of it yet. Those that could realize that they really like this game but they just have not tried it. Essentially I have one session to possibly get some new blood into the game.
This consideration has me wondering about a couple of issues in starting up a new campaign. First off how do you think I should get them their initial characters.
OPTION #1:
I can simply make the characters for them - If I did this I would probably stat up pretty much all the quick start characters they have in the PHB using an appropreate race for each. Thats fast and easy for the new players - they look them over and maybe read over a paragraph I provide regarding each character. This is quick and easy but maybe not satisfying enough?
OPTION #2:
A more middle ground option is to list out the main example classes and my players will each get to choose one of these 'archetypes'. I'll lead them through the process of otherwise statting up their characters. This is a method that will tell them more about how their characters work but its fraught with issues. First thing you do with making a character like this is you pick the ability scores and I can just see a whole table of six players not understanding how to do point buy and scared to ask me to explain it for the third time. These are teens and very young adults and I'm in my mid thirties and am an over the hill geezer as far as they are concerned, I'm concerned they'll be paralysed by indecision.
Still most of them have probably played video games with ability scores before. So this might not be a disaster, they might muddle through. Even beyond this I do face the problem of being the only person that knows whats going on and I probably will have only two PHBs (Mine and one I'll borrow) even if I run around the table answering questions and make them share the books character creation seems likely to result in lots of players not doing anything while they are waiting their turn to ask me a question or look at the books.
So any advice on which of these I should choose for having them get their first characters? If you have alternative ideas I'm all ears for that as well.
OK On to my second dilemma.
Diamond Lake is such a rich and interesting town. I'm not really sure what to do with the players in regards to it. Essentially my choices are to start them off in the town with a background that they all know each other and have all been training mainly for the express purpose of getting out of this hell whole - becoming adventurers being one way to pull that off. I then let them bump around town until at some point they presumably head for Whispering Cairn? This does a great job of showing off Diamond Lake but I'm concerned that they won't know what to do or worse yet some of them won't know what to really do while others get distracted and run amuk never getting back together and heading for Whispering Cairn.
My other option would be to give them a background that pretty much puts them in front of Whispering Cairn at the start of the adventure. This however does feel somewhat contrived, fails to show off any real role playing aspects until later in the adventure and makes introducing the town part and parcel of the quest to get the Land's bones for proper burial - which might not really be the best time to spring it (though maybe its not a terrible time either).
So what do you guys think about this little dilemma. Should I let the Newbs run amuk? Or railroad them straight into the dungeon?
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Whatever you do start with some action.
No matter how well described a beginning is or imaginatively played, nothing grabs a players attention more than an action scene. Doesn't necessarily have to be combat but needs to be involving and exciting, think opening scene of Star Wars.
Also forget about whether you expect them to be back next week that puts to much pressure on you to over perform.
If you have time before the session I'd ask the players whether they prefer to create their own characters, still set guidelines to keep the party balanced though.
Let them create their own characters. If you can do it as a group activity, great. If you need a point buy calculator Try this one provided 4e uses the same table as 3.5. I've found it highly useful and you can give them each a couple minutes to try it out.
From experience, when I first started I didn't even have a book. The DM made my character. What resulted was a serious snafu in confusion because I didn't know my character had rope. (In my defense, it was listed as a standard starting kit. Without a book, no clue what that included!)
But if you let them make their own characters (My 8 yr old just helped create his first character recently), they know their characters abilities much better than a pregen one.
Let them create their own characters. If you can do it as a group activity, great. If you need a point buy calculator Try this one provided 4e uses the same table as 3.5. I've found it highly useful and you can give them each a couple minutes to try it out.
From experience, when I first started I didn't even have a book. The DM made my character. What resulted was a serious snafu in confusion because I didn't know my character had rope. (In my defense, it was listed as a standard starting kit. Without a book, no clue what that included!)
But if you let them make their own characters (My 8 yr old just helped create his first character recently), they know their characters abilities much better than a pregen one.
My main concern here is that I have one session with them essentially - if they make their own characters then thats a big chunk of the session with them right there.
If you have time before the session I'd ask the players whether they prefer to create their own characters, still set guidelines to keep the party balanced though.
I can't see how they'd be unbalanced.
My main concern here is that I have one session with them essentially - if they make their own characters then thats a big chunk of the session with them right there.
Any chance to use email. have them create their characters and any questions can go through the internet? then you can approve them as you go along.
Any chance to use email. have them create their characters and any questions can go through the internet? then you can approve them as you go along.
My main concern here is that I have one session with them essentially - if they make their own characters then thats a big chunk of the session with them right there.
No chance - they don't have the books and they would not understand them if they had them. These are mostly neophytes - half of them probably only have a vague idea what a d20 is. Some of them will have some idea whats going on from computer games but I don't really know if all of them have played the right kind of computer games.
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I can't see how they'd be unbalanced.
If you have time before the session I'd ask the players whether they prefer to create their own characters, still set guidelines to keep the party balanced though.
In regards to filling the party roles
Defender
Controller
Striker
Leader
Whilst an experienced group are creative enough to overcome a shortfall in any one role I think, based on my limited play time, that a newbie group will want to cover all the bases.
I think starting out right with a fight is the way to go also. Perhaps you could do something that gives the party a fight that does not directly tie into Whispering Cairn (I think there was a post awhile back that used the Mine Manager's office). Then send them back to Diamond Lake for the town stuff and finally let them head back to the Cairn.
If you are going to go with Premade characters, I would make sure you let them do the stats and then after the first session modify the characters a bit, drop a power, change a feat whatever. Give them enough to get things going but let them get what they want in the end.
I would suggest, if you have the time, pregen several different characters so that they have a pool to choose from. I would also suggest having a human of each class, just in case some of them don't feel up to playing other races. In my experience there are some people who only play humans.
I can simply make the characters for them - If I did this I would probably stat up pretty much all the quick start characters they have in the PHB using an appropreate race for each. Thats fast and easy for the new players - they look them over and maybe read over a paragraph I provide regarding each character. This is quick and easy but maybe not satisfying enough?
Do you know the players at all outside of the game? You can try to make pregens that appeal to specific people if you know enough about them (or talk to them outside of the game room). I think pregen is definitely the way to go in this situation.
I'll tell you how my very first session long, long ago went, and maybe it could give you some ideas.
Sitting around a table with a group of relative strangers, the man who I later learned was properly termed the DM described to us how we were falling downwards, through the sky.
Slowly, the cloud cover was pierced to reveal a vast battle field spread out below us. Looking about, we could see each other falling around us, and we noticed we each began moving towards a group of bodies laying close together. He described each and asked if we were going to aim for a particular one. When two tried for the same body, they rolled to see who could get their faster, and the one player who didn't chose was given one at random. We were then given pregen characters based on the bodies picked, and the adventure was off.
I still remember that session, and it was great fun. Character creation is really complex, and unless you expect them to be running these characters for a long campaign, I'd say just pregen a group up (at least 1.5 times the number of players, if possible) and just let them pick. If they enjoy the game enough, they'll be eager to create characters the next time around.
Cheers! :)
Edit: When our new "bodies" jumped up, we started with a riotous combat, against the foes who had apparently killed the original occupants. Also, when a character fell later on, he took control of one of the unused bodies (luckily, we hadn't traveled too far by then ...) Ah memories.
I can't see how they'd be unbalanced.
If you have time before the session I'd ask the players whether they prefer to create their own characters, still set guidelines to keep the party balanced though.In regards to filling the party roles
Defender
Controller
Striker
LeaderWhilst an experienced group are creative enough to overcome a shortfall in any one role I think, based on my limited play time, that a newbie group will want to cover all the bases.
Ah - OK I understand know.
Do you know the players at all outside of the game? You can try to make pregens that appeal to specific people if you know enough about them (or talk to them outside of the game room). I think pregen is definitely the way to go in this situation.I can simply make the characters for them - If I did this I would probably stat up pretty much all the quick start characters they have in the PHB using an appropreate race for each. Thats fast and easy for the new players - they look them over and maybe read over a paragraph I provide regarding each character. This is quick and easy but maybe not satisfying enough?
I know two of the six players a little outside of the game. For the other four I will literally be shaking their hand at the start of the session and start by saying something along the lines of "Hi, my names Jeremy, I'll be your DM for the evening and I'm going to introduce you to fantasy gaming and the world of Dungeons and Dragons,'
I'll tell you how my very first session long, long ago went, and maybe it could give you some ideas.
Sitting around a table with a group of relative strangers, the man who I later learned was properly termed the DM described to us how we were falling downwards, through the sky.
Slowly, the cloud cover was pierced to reveal a vast battle field spread out below us. Looking about, we could see each other falling around us, and we noticed we each began moving towards a group of bodies laying close together. He described each and asked if we were going to aim for a particular one. When two tried for the same body, they rolled to see who could get their faster, and the one player who didn't chose was given one at random. We were then given pregen characters based on the bodies picked, and the adventure was off.
I still remember that session, and it was great fun. Character creation is really complex, and unless you expect them to be running these characters for a long campaign, I'd say just pregen a group up (at least 1.5 times the number of players, if possible) and just let them pick. If they enjoy the game enough, they'll be eager to create characters the next time around.
Cheers! :)
Edit: When our new "bodies" jumped up, we started with a riotous combat, against the foes who had apparently killed the original occupants. Also, when a character fell later on, he took control of one of the unused bodies (luckily, we hadn't traveled too far by then ...) Ah memories.
Wow - thats pretty good. I might well be able to use something like this.
Wow - thats pretty good. I might well be able to use something like this.
Glad I could help! That scenario hooked me for the past 15 years, so I figure it must be a keeper! ;)
I think Pregen's would be the way to go as well, but if they - or you - wanted to do real CharGen why not use the Standard Array? It works pretty nicely I think, and, most importantly, it's simple. You could even do it by explaining the attributes then getting them to envision the character they want and hinting what score should go where to make the concept work.
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I remember the good old days when I had some Newbs. Those cautious first steps with fighters and sorcerers, the first time using a cleric.
I found it was very helpful to run a DMPC in order to show the new players how the game works, both mechanically and roleplaying. Show them how spells work, how tactics work, and what to expect from putting in effort in to the game (talking in character, backstory, whatever floats your boat)!
I've run literally dozens of games for new players. What I've found works the best is having pre-gens with non-gaming-speak describing them. I try for a three-page handout. The first page is all about the character, written in large type and essentially containing a bit of a biography. The second page has a paragraph describing each of the other PCs from the perspective of the PC. The third page is the character sheet, and when I initially hand over the pages I tell the players that they don't need to worry about the third page just yet.
Oh No! I've got Newbs! Whatever Shall I Do?[threadjack] I sped-read this as 'Oh No! I've got Bewbs! Whatever Shall I Do?'
The answer seems to be the same for either version. Play with them. [/threadjack]
heh
you are a sick sick sick IndivegetableI like that
I know two of the six players a little outside of the game. For the other four I will literally be shaking their hand at the start of the session and start by saying something along the lines of "Hi, my names Jeremy, I'll be your DM for the evening and I'm going to introduce you to fantasy gaming and the world of Dungeons and Dragons,'
That sounds fun. =)
Personally, I'd make pregenerated characters - but then allow them to make cosmetic changes (male vs. female, weapon choices, thinking up brief backgrounds, that kind of thing... and if they change race or something on that order, quickly show them how stats would change). That would give them the benefit of a pregen and save time, but also give them the feel of some character creation. If there's time. =)
I'd say two things. First off, start with the action. Second, give each pregen a strong gimmick. You don't know which one will work for which player, but chances are somebody will love something. Give each character that is something uniquely them. The one warlord guy has a really big axe. The warlock guy is totally bald with a wicked huge snake tattoo from his head to his left foot. The ranger has a cloak made from a bearskin so when he puts the hood up he totally looks like a bear-man.
This stuff might seem a little cornball, but with pregen characters and new players, you gotta' have a nice simple fun hook to get them loving the guys they're playing.
Oh No! I've got Newbs! Whatever Shall I Do?
Newbies are only good for one thing -- showing how the monster works :P
This stuff might seem a little cornball, but with pregen characters and new players, you gotta' have a nice simple fun hook to get them loving the guys they're playing.
Good Advice. I'll do this.
Took slightly longer ti get this off the ground then I initially expected but I ran the first session last Sunday.
Didn't really think to review the advice here which was maybe unfortunate as some of the weak points in the session were addressed on this thread.
I choose to have them use the character builder to make their characters instead of having them choose from some pregenerated characters. I wish I had gone the pregenerated route - we muddled through but they have no idea what they made - and there are simple flaws in their character designs that are not expected - like not taking powers that line up with their best stat, that sort of thing. Pre-gen beats building from scratch for two reasons - one it means more play time and two it means I understand the characters and can more easily help them play by suggesting things.
Still what is done is doen and its not like their characters are set in stone. They can change things later to make their character function better.
I choose to start them at the mouth of the adventure to keep the pace there up but did not immediately jump them into combat as I wanted them to get a basic acquaintance with some elements of the game slower before jumping into the deep end that is combat. Skills and such gave them some familiarity with the dice and with controlling their character. It also allowed things to ramp up a bit to the peak of the evening which was a fight with some wolves.
Interestingly enough they seemed to instantly understand that the party needed a spell casting guy, a healing guy and a beefy guy. I ended up with a party that was pretty classic - rogue, wizard, cleric and paladin. The only leading I did was answering stuff like a cleric is a better healer then a Paladin and also telling them not to take two of the same class for this run through as it will expose them to more of the game.
Took slightly longer ti get this off the ground then I initially expected but I ran the first session last Sunday.A year and a half later...
Well, it sounds like it went pretty well, in that they were interested and pretty enthusiastic. Keep us updated; I hope session 2 goes even better!
The second session (last Sunday) actually went really, really, well. We did our first few combats and they learned how that all worked. They had a really easy time grasping the tactical combat part of the game (the grid) which surprised me a little as I though that part would take longer to pick up on. They are still having trouble with reading their powers or finding anything on their character sheets but the grid was easy for them.
One problem, left over from the weak character design process, has been that they nearly always use the same power. Seems like they have figured out which one is best and, because they pretty much just randomly choose powers, its been the case that there usually was just one power that was 'best' for nearly every case. This however seems to bother me more then it does them. So far at least they are perfectly content to use the same attack over and over again. I suppose that gets boring for more experienced gamers but not so much newbs.
I'm running Whispering Cairn (converted to 4E) - which has, so far, proven to be a great beginner adventure.
Its really fascinating to watch a group of newbs play the game for the first time. This is the real highlight of the whole thing for me. Its a truly interesting and exciting experience. I think part of what is so compelling is that this is the closest I can get to those first few games that I played so many years ago where I did not understand anything and it was all so larger then life and exciting. Here I can experience that again vicariously through them.
One of the more fun moments for me took place with the decoy Sarcophagus. They figured out they could spin it and did so a few times after which one gets to the part where the floor collapses and bugs climb up the shaft making clacking noises on the wall that get louder as they approach the top of the shaft.
'Course the characters can't see whats coming up so it becomes a bit of a scare scene. Immediately the players are all yelling at each other stuff like "I told you not to spin the Sarcophagus!"..."Well you did not want to climb the chain to go down that other passage." etc. All the while their characters have fled back behind the Sarcophagus and have hid behind it peering over the edge to see what would emerge.
You don't see this so much in a veteran group - in the group I have a character in we'd have investigated the room, determined the various options on the table and considered if there was actual evidence for one action being good or bad. Since spinning the Sarcophagus does not come with evidence that it is either a good or a bad idea we'd have noted that and decided if it was reasonable to 'see what it does'. The results, good or bad, would not effect us emotionally because we would not have felt responsible without evidence that it was a bad idea.
Not only that but clacking noises from some unknown foe emerging from a tunnel would only be mildly disturbing for our experienced group - it certainly would not have effected deployment for tactical advantage in the coming encounter and we'd probably actually be better off since, given a round or two to prepare against a threat we expect is coming can provide a veteran group a huge benefit.
Anyway all in all its been good times so far.
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That sounds really cool, and I love that adventure.
When you say they keep using the same power, I assume you're referring to an at-will. I would hope that they see that their encounter and daily powers are little more powerful. All in all, though, I agree that it's probably not something to be too worried about.
I found the DDI character sheet generated cards more confusing then helpful for new players. First of all the print size in not friendly, and even with the color codes and checkboxes for the type of power, it is not always obvious.
I would prefer they expand on a basic stat block type character sheet (like the text version in DDI), with the powers listed as line items with brief descriptions, or allow you to print out larger cards (versus the standard card deck size).
At this point, you may even consider having the new players convert the DDI character sheet over to a standard player sheet.
I found the DDI character sheet generated cards more confusing then helpful for new players. First of all the print size in not friendly, and even with the color codes and checkboxes for the type of power, it is not always obvious.
I would prefer they expand on a basic stat block type character sheet (like the text version in DDI), with the powers listed as line items with brief descriptions, or allow you to print out larger cards (versus the standard card deck size).
At this point, you may even consider having the new players convert the DDI character sheet over to a standard player sheet.
My experience with new players is the opposite. Get them acquainted with how power cards are laid out ("Your attack bonus and damage bonus are here, and this is where the power's effects are explained.") and they'll have a very easy time of it.
That sounds really cool, and I love that adventure.
When you say they keep using the same power, I assume you're referring to an at-will. I would hope that they see that their encounter and daily powers are little more powerful. All in all, though, I agree that it's probably not something to be too worried about.
No - they use a favourite at will and only that favourite at will over and over again. They seem to grasp that the cards have different power levels - they'd use their daily's over and over if I'd let them.
I'm not clear on why but I have not done deep investigation. I'm planning on looking over their character sheets tonight or tomorrow to see what the deal is. I'm getting the impression that the encounter powers are not more powerful then their at wills or at least that they believe that is the case. That seems odd considering that I know for sure that they understand that their daily's are great - so they can (at this point) read the cards enough to understand gross power differentials.
There is a break down of how to read a power card in the PHB. I don't know if they'd understand it even if they looked at it. At session start they could not read 1d6+3 and understand it (whats a 1d6?).
I prefer the power cards because its easy for me to say - "here pass that over and I'll explain". Easier for me to deal with a power card then with a whole character sheet and its easier for them to highlight the power they don't understand since they can hand me the power that confuses them instead of a whole character sheet (with a power on it that they are now misnaming confusing the heck out of me while I search for it).
In essence they key is whats going to make it easier for the DM to teach. Bigger text would be marginally useful but lets be real here - these kids can see the words better then I can - the problem is not font size - its that the sentences are gibberish. All the action words are in some foreign lingo that makes no sense at all.
They grasp what hitting reflex is in using their powers only really after they grasp that they have defenses and that the monsters are hitting their reflex or AC defense. Once they get that its just a matter of reminding them where on the card to look and how to speak to me (i.e 14 vs. reflex) when they make their roll.
I think they grasped most of the details by the end of the session. They knew what sliding was, how to heal and what an attack bonus was. I've so far treated temporary hps as real hps because I don't want to introduce the rules surrounding stacking effects (or types or keywords) just yet. That crap is complex and I'm more concerned that they can correctly and consistently scoop up a d10 when called upon to do so for the moment - it may seem odd but scooping up a d10 consistently is much more difficult to learn then sliding or an attack bonus, or that has been my experience.
In regards to DDI character cards, maybe for a truely new player, it doesn't matter how the powers are presented because they are learning. When I thought about it more, my statements above are in regards to previous D&D players.
My opinion is the cards as presented wastes alot of paper, and space, unless you find the cards indespensible (perhaps younger players pefer it). I would prefer a line item listing, without the bling, where powers are listed concisely in regards to at-will, encounter, utility and daily. Similiar to how the DDI character sheet lists the checkboxes for powers used.
My comments on having players filling out a traditional character sheet allows them time to absorb the material as they write it. But I am old school in regards to that preference.
In regards to DDI character cards, maybe for a truely new player, it doesn't matter how the powers are presented because they are learning. When I thought about it more, my statements above are in regards to previous D&D players.
My opinion is the cards as presented wastes alot of paper, and space, unless you find the cards indespensible (perhaps younger players pefer it). I would prefer a line item listing, without the bling, where powers are listed concisely in regards to at-will, encounter, utility and daily. Similiar to how the DDI character sheet lists the checkboxes for powers used.
My comments on having players filling out a traditional character sheet allows them time to absorb the material as they write it. But I am old school in regards to that preference.
Well it sounds like your power layout really just comes down to preference - which is fine - I'm not about to argue preferences.
In character creation - well I already noted that the best option was probably pre-generated. After that though I think the DDI was pretty good because it forces one to deal with the task at hand and only that task - it makes each choice in character creation a choice among usually 1/2 a dozen options. That they can sort of kind of grasp. The feats I actually just told them - take X it'll be good for your character as there where to many options and they tended to be confusing to a newb.
I think a traditional character sheet would have slowed things down without actually making them understand anything - they won't really understand anything for the first few sessions in any case so getting to the end of this process is really the goal and pre-gen the best way to go about it.
With more experienced players that can grasp a character sheet a slower method might work better because they need info on how things work in this game as compared to other games they have played but understand once its explained.
Ah, I remember my Basic D&D days and trying to figure out when a Cleric got his spells.
Well session #3 went off last Sunday. Things are looking good. My players remain excited and keen to play. At this point I don't think I have to worry about loosing them because this type of game is not for them - though I suppose they could loose interest once the thrill of going through the dungeon starts to wear off...but I don't think thats a big danger D&D is really good about adding new layers of interest just as the old layers become old hat. In this case they'll begin to figure out they are in the centre of some big earth shaking conspiracy right about the time that killing things and taking their stuff stops being a self motivating agenda. Of course none of this would really save the game from something like a player moving away or getting a new significant other that wants the player free Sunday evenings. They've been resistant to the idea of bringing in another player as well which makes this more of a danger as loose even one player and the situation becomes very problematic.
Looked ovre my players characters and it seems like I was mostly wrong about them not using their encounter powers. They do use them except for the rogue who's encounter powers are not actually as good as his at wills - they'd be good if he was a Ruthless Ruffian but he is an Artful Dodger so they don't line up.
That said he finally figured out how good sneak attack damage is this session (which is to say he finally successfully made an attack with Combat Advantage). The result is that he shifts between his two at wills so its not to bad. His character is the one that needs the most fixes however - the small group (only 4 players) means that the rogue has no choice but to be in the combats - and often gets beat on when attempting to flank (if you can flank them often they can easily flank you). He needs to pick up durable and toughness I expect.
The players are still a bit uneven in how fast they are picking up the rules. Some of them have figured out the power cards while others still need help pulling it off. That said I'm no longer in charge of explaining this to them really - they explain it to each other most of the time at this point.
They have grasped, much better then originally how to use their characters tactically. The last session was mainly a series of blow outs where the players beat down on the unfortunate monsters. I'm a little surprised as most encounters are either their level or one level higher but this has ceased to be much of a challenge. I'm not too worried however as things will get a bit tougher as the adventure progresses.
My experience with new players is the opposite. Get them acquainted with how power cards are laid out ("Your attack bonus and damage bonus are here, and this is where the power's effects are explained.") and they'll have a very easy time of it.I found the DDI character sheet generated cards more confusing then helpful for new players. First of all the print size in not friendly, and even with the color codes and checkboxes for the type of power, it is not always obvious.
I would prefer they expand on a basic stat block type character sheet (like the text version in DDI), with the powers listed as line items with brief descriptions, or allow you to print out larger cards (versus the standard card deck size).
At this point, you may even consider having the new players convert the DDI character sheet over to a standard player sheet.
Actually, I have a specific example on how I prefer powers be displayed on the character sheet if everyone had a chance to look at the pre-generated characters for 4E game day. I loved how they still color coded the power, but kept the information minimal and to the point. I would be estatic if the DDI generator offered this as an option over the card format.
Session #4 took place last Sunday. They leveled up to 2nd level at the end of the session. They really are moving out of the 'newbie' stage at this point. During the level up process they were able to look at powers and even feats and contrast and compare them enough to choose things that would be good for their character. They can now read their powers more or less unerringly. Some wording or such might throw them for a loop but that can happen even to a veteran player.
Furthermore I allowed them to retrain one feat or power when they made their level and, because they now understand their characters, they were able to identify what power or feat had not been of much use and make a reasonable choice in regards to picking up something that would actually be useful.
I did introduce a couple of concepts this session - at one point the players were trying to be tactical and realized that their turn order made doing some combo impossible so I stepped in and explained the concept of delaying an action. They also learned about damage of the same type stacking. At this point they understand pretty much all the basic rules its only the more complex stuff like line of sight and line of effect as well as some the details around stacking effects that they have no idea about. Truth is they are not that far behind where I am (being a player most of the time can mean a lot of rules don't come up and you don't really learn them unless they effect your player). Of course one of my skills that they don't have is the ability to quickly and effectivly look up a rule and I've also learned to parse role play lingo so I can read such rules and comprehemd them very well.
There was a change up in this session as I finally started throwing some really tough 'you could seriously die here' type encounters their way. They seemed to have no real trouble adjusting to the fact that the gloves where coming off and I was perfectly willing to pick on a character that was already really badly beat up and force them to play back hard to stay alive.
Its been a great experience teaching some newbs to game and they seemed to grasp the game a lot quicker then I had expected - I'm guessing video games have prepared the groundwork for me in part.
I also think that having a lot of inexperienced players play together without any veterans around is really the way to go in teaching the game. In four sessions these players basically learned how to play - I've introduced newbs into a veteran group and played 16+ sessions with them and they never really grasp a lot of whats going on. Having a veteran around who will tell you what to do or what to roll seems to be a really bad crutch that keeps such players from truly learning the game and therefore holds them back from ever really being able to participate.
My little Role Players...I'm so proud of them.
We've just finished off session #6 today and it had some new milestones in it. I have to say that Whispering Cairn is really just an exceptional adventure in terms of introducing new players to the game.
I doubt its intentional or anything but Erik Mona's masterpiece really goes through the various steps of learning to play the game in a really great manner. I did not post about session #5 but thinking back there was an underwater fight scene in that session that introduced them to the idea of more complex combats which acts as a kind cap to the idea of combat.
The way the adventure unfolds its like layers of how to play D&D
* Basic exploration early in the Cairn with some wierd stuff.
* An early basic fight against wolves
* Puzzle solving and traps in the room of many passages
* Some more complex monsters in the giant bugs
* More advanced exploration in the sub levels including increasingly difficult combats.
* A complex fight underwater to really show off how rules can be layered on top of each other and provide a tactical element to a combat encounter.
* Out of the dungeon and on to some social encounters to show how those rules work.
Really its just an awesome introductory adventure.
So in this session my players interacted with the Ghost of Alaster Land.
They went to the Land's farmstead and discovered the Owlbears in the house. They realized that the wizard might be able to trick the Owlbears out of the house using his ghost sound power - there was actually some debate over whether to even bother 'because Jeremy would never let us get through this without a fight'. That was, of course, not true - they came up with a way of tricking the Owlbears out of the house and decided to go for it and of course it worked.
Then it was off to confront Kullen and his gang. Lots of role playing here when they considered following him back to his pad and ambushing him in his sleep - I choose to have Kullen's gang live on the Smenk premises though. Then they tried to bribe the bartender to spike Kullen's drinks but I had some expanded detail's on the bartender 'Chubb's' in my write up of the encounter and knew he was far to afraid of Kullen to ever cross him. Finally they confront Kullen and I lay into them with some major smack talk.
I think with a veteran group you'd never see the players let an NPC talk to them that way but but these newbs really surprise me when they offer Kullen 100 gp for information regarding the bones.
I'm actually brought up short on that one...I mean I expected either a skill challenge or a fight...but 100gp, and Kullen does not even like Filge.
So I thought about it for a second and figured at 100gp we just don't have a Skill Challenge and we don't have a fight - he rats Filge out and takes the money.
That is were I ended the session - lots of fun and not a single fight. I am a little bit let down in that I had the whole bar scene done up on a battle map I made in gimp and put extra special work to make it an awesome encounter and my players short circuited the whole thing...but that's what I get for choosing the life of a GM...especially with newbs - their so unpredictable...100 GP to an NPC that's been smack talking you - who'd figure that could happen.
Well I hit a sad milestone this session. I loose my first player at the end of the session as one of the players is moving to Germany. The players are crazy eager to game. I've missed like two weeks total since this started due to stuff like one player having 'unchangeable' summer vacation plans or the like. Needless to say the veteran group I game with is not nearly so reliable.
They had me up to 1:30 in the morning today as they kept insisting that the game go on. I'm a huge D&D fan and the DM usually loves to play but I don't think I can quite compete with that crack like excitement that is ones first D&D campaign.
They have a new player lined up to take the leaving players place but I'm now facing one of the challenges I was trying to avoid - bringing a new player into what amounts to a veteran group...and at this point they are veteran enough that there is a huge discrepancy between their skill level and the poor new girl who has never played D&D before. Worse yet the group is 8th level.
I've had bad experiences with this situation in the past...veteran players are a crutch that newbs instinctively rely on. The newb does whatever she is told, rolls whatever is indicated but never actually understands whats going on.
Just my $0.02, not sure if you were looking for advice or just lamenting the loss of a gamer.
Whenever I bring new players into an experienced group I try to make sure they get heard. I find that more experienced gamers tend to readily voice their opinions, but new players sometimes get intimidated and fall silent. With a new player, when it comes to their turn I look straight at them and ask "What would you like to do?"
It tends to help them see that overall the game is based on the choices they make, and that what they want to do is more important than what the group thinks they should do. Even break it down and make sure you let their turn not get rushed.
DM: What do you want to do?
Newb: I want to attack
DM: ok, who are you going to attack
Newb: [points] this one
DM: The Hobgoblin Commander? Ok, which attack power do you want to use?
Newb: Ummm, Crushing Blow
DM: ok you need to be next to him for that power, if you look at [location on sheet] you have your speed, move up to that much to get close to him.
etc..
If any of the other players start to suggest something else, let them know that on "newb's" turn you want to know what "newb" wants to do. Let them learn the game before working their tactics into the rest of the group's.
Then when you resolve the mechanics with them, play up the cinematics (even if you do for every attack, add a little more for them). That way they don't get lost in just the numbers at first, they have a chance to get lost in the visual as well.
I love teaching new players to play, and try to convert anyone that shows an interest into a gamer. These are just some things I have noticed with beginners.
Well I can't get her alone as I do not know this young lady and I'm sure all alone will just make her very uncomfortable.
I'm told that she is a 'gamer' in the sense that she likes MMO's (I assume that means she plays World of Warcraft) and I'm sure that she is not in a romantic relationship with any of my other players. Their actual girlfriends/boyfriends have been excluded from the game - presumably to make this a night away from said romantic partner, though I'm not really certain of the details - their is a significant age difference between myself and my young players and I don't hang with them socially outside of the game.
She gets the Defender role in this group because that is the role being vacated and this group, in particular, must have some one in the tank role - range cleric and wizard and a melee rogue - all being run by players for whom this is their very first character, they won't give them up.
I'm leaning toward giving her a fighter - the rest of the group has seen a Paladin and the other defenders increase the complexity level which I want to avoid for a first time player.
My plan at this point is to set up a special session with her and two of the other players. We'll have her make a 3rd level fighter and the other two players will get 1st level 'henchmen'. They'll go on a simple adventure...probably the one in the back of the DMG since I think that is a pretty good intro adventure...and if I change the white dragon to a black wyrmling I can tie it into the current campaign and give a story reason for her meeting up with the current group. I can get the henchmen players to mostly keep their traps shut and have all the decision making be up to her for this one session.
'Companion' character is a good idea but I don't think its the best option here. The session after this she plays at 8th so this seems like the best chance I have to get her to play a slightly more simplified version of her actual character. Give her more of a chance to learn that character a bit and also this gives her character a bit of history.
After that I think she levels the character up to 8th (with me around to advise) and we throw her in the deep end and hope it all works out.
Your group found this new player. From what you say, they've got a huge investment in keeping the campaign running, so it's likely they recruited with a bit of care. This is your golden opportunity to see how well you've taught that group. They are now going to be passing on their hard-earned knowledge to the new player and your only job, really, is to make sure that it stays fun for everyone. Easier said than done, but it will be made hugely easier because the group desperately want this to work out.
Running a short familiarisation adventurer sounds like an excellent idea, just to get the mechanics established. It gives her a chance to work out what's what and you a chance to assess her interests and play style.