Neither...MAIDEN! Up the Irons!
Or, from a hockey messageboard I've been visiting for a very long time:
Rush or Nirvana?
Oh, to clarify, it has been an ongoing debate about best rock trio, so Maiden is not an option. And as far as I'm concerned, Genesis and Peter, Paul & Mary are out as well.
Oh, to clarify, it has been an ongoing debate about best rock trio, so Maiden is not an option. And as far as I'm concerned, Genesis and Peter, Paul & Mary are our as well.Sign of aging. the classic rock station in Colorado Springs decided to declare Nirvana as 'classic'. They pushed Rush into the 'oldies'... I wanted to hurt someone.
Ah, TRIO.
Rush
Triumph
Prong
Hands down - Shonen Knife
Heh. LET'S KNIFE!
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Sign of aging. the classic rock station in Colorado Springs decided to declare Nirvana as 'classic'. They pushed Rush into the 'oldies'... I wanted to hurt someone.
See, I think bands should be officially done before they can be classified as Oldies. If Rush is still touring (which they are), they shouldn't be Oldies yet!
Also, Nirvana is around 15-20 years old now. That's a long time.
Aubrey,
To answer your original question, I think you can easily see why there are still edition wars going on. As vance points out, Some people just want them. If you look back through some posters' non-PBP postings, you will see each of them finds a way to work in direct attacks vs. either an individual, a group of like-minded people, or a company as a whole. These people aren't here for intelligent debate or well-formed rhetoric, they are only here because they want to "win" something. Well, victory for its own sake is an empty and false victory.
Personally, I find the labelling of posters as "4e haters" or "WotC cool-aid drinkers" to be the work of simple-minded folk. If you dislike one or the other edition, do everyone a favor: enjoy it and shut the h377 up on the boards. We got it. Insulting people who disagree with you solely because they disagree with you is the mark of an adolescent or socially immarture individual.
Just because someone doesn't wish to partake of one edition or another doesn't make them "haters" or "cultists". Some of us have other reasons for our decisions, ranging from friends decisions of what to play or simple adult fiscal responsibility (that means some of us would rather our money goes to something that improves the wider/non-game community). Don't attack them in order to appear superior. Any attack (and most of us are in some way guilty of them) makes you look quite inferior, actually. SO, as you should have learned in kindergarten, if you can't post something nice, don't post anything at all.
And as far as "self-moderating" being a fantasy, that's because "self-moderating" does not mean we moderate the boards. It means we moderate ourselves before we type and click submit.
In short, be constructive or shut the h377 up.
(sorry for the length)
Oh ... and RUSH for R&R Hall of Fame!!!!!!!!!!!
Okay, my shallow attempt at thread-jacking a flame war succeeded.
Hey, I like Shonen Knife. To varying degrees, I also like Primus, The Police, Green Day, Wolfmother, The Minutemen, Motorhead, Husker Du and, of course, The Beastie Boys.
But in terms of talent, influence, and impact, I think Nirvana beats them all.
Oh, to clarify, it has been an ongoing debate about best rock trio.
My vote would be for The Police!
You're only old if the music is too loud.
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There, that's better. Old, you say? All in the Attitude, Sonny. All in the Attitude."It's not the age... it's the mileage"
Doesn't help that my oldest girl just had her first job interview today. Ouch!
1-up! First grandson due 8/25 from my oldest daughter. I'm already starting to shop for appropriate nerd baby clothes. (anyone have good links? more threadjacking!!)
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Rush
Triumph
Prong
Triumph! Awesome band.
Coming from the mid-west, I had no clue who Rush was. Up here in New England, that's a stoning offense. Lots of Rush fans...
I'm already starting to shop for appropriate nerd baby clothes. (anyone have good links? more threadjacking!!)
I'm partial to this shirt, but it looks like one of those things you'd have to explain fairly often...
http://www.glarkware.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=8&idprod uct=2470
Greatest trio? Come on guys... surely someone out there is experienced? Have you ever been experienced? Well, I have.
Well, yeah, that's the easy answer. For some reason though, I just can't consider them a trio. It's really all about Jimi.
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Also, Nirvana is around 15-20 years old now. That's a long time.I know.. it's just that, as a kid, oldies were 'do-wop' bands from the 1950s, and 'classics' were Vietnam-era rock. Now 'classics' is anything more than two years old, and 'oldies' is anything before the 1990s.
Just.. kinda disheartening to feel this OLD sometimes when I'm just 36, ya know?
ROFL!
A while back (2000-ish) I'm stationed in Korea, listening to the radio and the DJ pops off with "This is for the geezers out there" and throws in Quarterflash.
My heart broke.
Why I argue is the seemingly inane thought that you can't have any real roleplaying in 4e, as though there's a page in the DMG that says adventures must be comprised only of dungeon crawls, when in fact the opposite is true!We role-played in Star Fleet Battles, probably the least RP-friendly game in the universe. Heck, one of our players role-plays an evil slumlord when he plays *Monopoly* and threatens to send 'his boys' around to 'teach a lesson' if people don't hand money over fast enough.
There's nothing any edition of D&D can do to prevent people from role-playing their characters.
That's exactly my point. You don't need a roleplaying section, hell the 3.5 one was incredibly piddly. And yet it's there in 4e and it's like people are completely ignoring it.
If you want heavy roleplaying, go play some other game, like the sad vampire one :PAnd there's the other side of it. Instead of refuting the, as you say, 'inane' notion that one can't role-play in 4E, the 'defense' degenerates into attacking other people and their style of play.
If the people at the table are having fun, then they aren't doing it wrong, even if they happen to like role-playing, or even if they've played that 'sad vampire game' or play games with girls at the table (some of whom kinda like 'sad vampire games' and role-playing more than action-adventure games with lots of dice rolling).
*I* don't really enjoy wargaming or simulationism or games where I have to keep track of many fiddly things each and every round (like tons of situational modifiers, I prefer 'buffs' or 'debuffs' that last an entire combat to those that are measured in rounds, and the turn towards spells and modifiers that last a single round kinda turns me off), but other people like that level of detail and round-by-round adjustment, and I see no need to disparage them, nor do I consider myself a better (or worse) gamer because of that.
I'm not trying to attack their style of play, I mean do what you want with the system, hell I've played entire sessions myself without any combat. What I don't like is when people start complaining that 4e doesn't lend to plot heavy campaigns, I don't think any edition of D&D ever really did that ('cept maybe a few campaign settings in 2nd ed). The majority of D&D campaigns I know of involve fighting in some form or another, and I think this applies for just about anyone.
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My vote would be for The Police!
Lensman wins! The correct answer is The Police. The Police are the best rock trio of all time.
More precisely, they are the best progressive punk/rock/pop/reggae/fusion trio of all time. That is, their sound is so unique, and so good it is a bit difficult to compare them to anything prior or since...
Just imho...
Oh, p.s. What is being labled an edition war is much less about editions, as it is a defining departure point for those wishing to play a simple game in the style of dnd. (I'm sure I'll follow up with more, but right now, I need to hit play on disk 4 of Message In A Box.... With one breath, with one flow, you will know...synchronicity.
I care about the Edition Wars. I find the hypocrisy amusing. The same arguments, the same strategies with only the names changed.
Oh, to clarify, it has been an ongoing debate about best rock trio, so Maiden is not an option. And as far as I'm concerned, Genesis and Peter, Paul & Mary are out as well.Hands down - Shonen Knife
Have you ever actually listened to Shonen Knife.
Its ... odd, is the best I can come up with. Its been a while but I distinctly recall listening to a Japanese Teenie Bop Ode to Bubble Gum.
I'm listing and thinking Geez I got to cut back on the hard drugs.
The reason I defend 4e is simple - I have little tolerance for the active spread of disinformation that is far too often the subject of many posts in this section of Paizo's boards.
Do you seriously believe that when Razz posts something about 4E that we believe it, and that we need your help to see the truth?
I'll keep on harping on 4e because i don't like the fact that the commercial power of hasbro/wotc is trying to force what is IMHO not D&D onto the gaming world.
How much force would you say they are using?
Not sure how much.. but it's definitely the Dark Side. :)
Ah, the old Force Push. Now I know what they meant when they said that the SW Saga rules were a test for 4E.
It's a trap! Our players can't repel system changes of that magnitude!
Damn you, vance. In another time and another place (and if I was twice my age), we could have been friends.
Damn you, vance. In another time and another place (and if I was twice my age), we could have been friends.But what... purpose... would the OGL's death serve?
The OGL can never die, just multiply.
But it would keep the Neutral Zone neutral :)
I can't abide Neutrals. With chaotic evil, you know where you stand. With Neutrals, you can never be sure...
That's one of the selling features of 4E. No more neutrals, just a lot of unaligned folk.
Get a room already. Damn.
Is that really a My Little Pony?
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except i get to hear the random trashy thoughts of the guys who just can't admit they Lost...
ahhh Logos, please have a cookie and relax. I didnt realize this was a win or lose situation....oh wait, you play 4e.....there has to be winners and losers there doesnt there.
...........I thought we were trying to have a kinder gentler conversation here.
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Do you seriously believe that when Razz posts something about 4E that we believe it, and that we need your help to see the truth?
The reason I defend 4e is simple - I have little tolerance for the active spread of disinformation that is far too often the subject of many posts in this section of Paizo's boards.
Nope - but others are more subtile and their bullshit more believable.
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I'll keep running my Pathfinder games and I'll have fun.
Woot!
I'll keep on harping on 4e because I don't like the fact that the commercial power of hasbro/wotc is trying to force what is IMHO not D&D onto the gaming world.
I'm not certain why you (or other folks) think harping on 4e on Paizo messageboard peoples will in any way affect Hasbro/WotC product efforts? And I'm not certain how much "Force" is involved here. Marketing, certainly.
i'm sure there's plenty of anti-4e/pro-everything else people out there who feel defeated and have given up posting. fine. it just sucks that people have to feel spiritually crushed by the release of a new version of a game they used to love...
People who feel spiritually crushed by the release of a new version of a game should probably reconsider their world view a bit. It's.. a game. Play the one you have, you're having fun with it.
You shouldn't need to work so hard at poking holes in other people's balloons if you're happy with yours and they're happy with theirs. Or to put it another way, you have 90% more in common with the person reading this posting then you do with the person sitting next to you on the bus. Maybe it's time to move on and remember we're all RPG nerds together here.
Gotta Run! Off to my 4E KotSF game! (with Sebastian mods, of course) :-)
You shouldn't need to work so hard at poking holes in other people's balloons if you're happy with yours and they're happy with theirs. Or to put it another way, you have 90% more in common with the person reading this posting then you do with the person sitting next to you on the bus. Maybe it's time to move on and remember we're all RPG nerds together here.
Some people are happiest when they are making other people unhappy. When I was a small child, my mother would carry a needle with her when we went to the swimming club and would surreptitiously poke holes in any air filled toy or mattress she could get near. She had a great time doing so.
since the thread has veered to music...I'll put this in as my opinion of D&D 4e...for those Pink Floyd fans out there, if you're old enough you remember when Roger Waters left the band and the ensuing legal battles. after it was all done, Waters said "They own the name "Pink Floyd" but it's not Pink Floyd anymore."
That's how I see WotC and "D&D" 4e.
Hey, that's my avatar!
It's.. a game.
Everyone, just keep repeating this...if it makes you feel any better, you can append ", I should really just relax" to it. Pete Apple speaks truth.
For Chrisssakes, I'm not really enamored of 4e and have no interest in playing it (my new drug--erm, game of choice is Castles and Crusades), but the back-and-forth on both sides is inching towards "Protestants v. Catholics in Northern Ireland" territory.
Nobody's life is on the line dependent on which edition you choose. Nobody's going to come and rip up my C&C books if 4e does go into the ascendant. Nobody is going to herd 4e users into re-education camps. Get over it. Pick up those damn d20s and roll 'em, will ya? However you care to roll 'em.