with Use Rope gone, how does a grappling hook work?
Tie a rope to it, swing it around a few times, and throw it at the top of a wall?
:-D
lol
Making a ranged attack might work as well, but I didn't see any answer to it in the release.
I guess you could just say that you automatically secure it too... not that big of a deal really.
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agreed either make it a touch attack against a target, stationary object should be the same as hitting a 5 foot square + cover bonus + size bonus, so lets say you are trying to hook onto the ledge it's diminutive size and its blocked by the wall so it has partial cover so a ranged touch attack at 5+2+3=10. Really not worth it though unless they are trying to avoid notice, if they are in any situation where they can try again without worrying about being spotted i'd just let it auto succeed and have climb checks do the work.
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I apologize if someone else has already answered this, or if I just missed it in the Alpha rules, but with Use Rope gone, how does a grappling hook work? Previously, it required a Use Rope check vs. a DC. Is it simply a straight Dex check now?
I'd make it a ranged touch attack, with the DC modified by distance (height), cover (of the spot you're trying to hitch to), and prevailing weather conditions (is it slippery from ice and rain?). You would use your BAB modified by your DEX (for accuracy) and STR (for distance).
Something like this:
BAB + STR + DEX + D20 vs. Distance (+2 to DC for every 5 feet) + cover + condition.
That's how I'd handle it. I don't think it really needs Use Rope.
Cheers,
Jaye
Making a ranged attack might work as well, but I didn't see any answer to it in the release.
No no no! I did this once and a guard in the tower screamed and fell dead at my feet with the hook right in his chest.
I apologize if someone else has already answered this, or if I just missed it in the Alpha rules, but with Use Rope gone, how does a grappling hook work? Previously, it required a Use Rope check vs. a DC. Is it simply a straight Dex check now?
So, keep the Use Rope skill. It's not as useless as some people think. Everybody carries 50' or more of the stuff around with them, somebody ought to know how to use it...
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I always hated use rope. Everyone who goes adventuring should know how to tie a basic knot. If you need a special knot or a special situation I would use an intelligence check or just assume the dude can do it. I doubt that a trained rogue would ever fail to tie a rope right. Especially straight to a grappling hook.
Now if you were tying someone up that's different, use an intelligence check or just make the assumption that it works. If you need to have the tied dude try to escape use the CMB guidelines 15+ whatever the person's tying up modifier. Or something.
I always hated use rope. Everyone who goes adventuring should know how to tie a basic knot. If you need a special knot or a special situation I would use an intelligence check or just assume the dude can do it. I doubt that a trained rogue would ever fail to tie a rope right. Especially straight to a grappling hook.
Now if you were tying someone up that's different, use an intelligence check or just make the assumption that it works. If you need to have the tied dude try to escape use the CMB guidelines 15+ whatever the person's tying up modifier. Or something.
You could say "everyone knows how to move quietly" too. They don't, but they can try. Sure anyone can tie a basic knot... I'm not sure I want to rappel down a cliff with my life relying on their knot tying ability though. Anyone can try to mess with rope. Not everyone is an expert, with a knowledge of numerous knots, the best ways to tie off lines, etc. If your PCs ever moved through caverns this was an important skill. Rogues needed it, even if they could climb up with out rope, as they often tied one off and dropped a line for the rest of the party. It's your classic dungeon crawl skill. You can assume everyone has it, but then it becomes more difficult, and arbitrary, to ajudicate it's success or failure. What did Sam Gamgee say about rope in LotR? Something about rope, needing it if you don't have it. That goes for the skill too. Damn it's late. I'm waxing nostalgic about the Use Rope skill... oh well, more papers to grade. Summer school...
But lots and lots noisier.
I'm not sure rope will lose out to chain for the ability to scale a wall quietly.
The problem with use rope as a skill isn't it's usefulness, it's with the extreme narrow-use of the skill.
You use it to secure a grappling rope.
You use it to tie someone up.
....
That's really about it.
I don't know off hand why you couldn't even take 20 at it to make sure it was good and tight.
But is it really worth its own skill for that narrow use?
-S
If the reason for dropping Use Rope was because it sucked up skill points and was only useful for one or two things then why not drop Swim, Jump, and Climb? They only do one thing as well. Each skill was made because it had a niche to fill.
Use rope could have been combined with something else but instead it was dropped when the same problem could have been said about the other three skills.
The problem with use rope as a skill isn't it's usefulness, it's with the extreme narrow-use of the skill.
You use it to secure a grappling rope.
You use it to tie someone up.....
That's really about it.
I don't know off hand why you couldn't even take 20 at it to make sure it was good and tight.But is it really worth its own skill for that narrow use?
-S
The utility of Use Rope is not as narow as it might at first seem. Sure you tie people (or things, up). You tie off ropes for climbing. You also: secure goods on a mule, tie up the horses at night, haul things (as was pointed out above), lower things, secure things, set snares / trip lines, do rope lines for "bridges" across chasms (one high to grab, one low to walk on), work the rigging on a ship's sails, etc. Even a good executioner should have rope use -- the hangman's knot. It may not be the flashiest skill, but it's certainly as useful as a lot of skills that were kept. I can understand the desire to reduce the sometimes overwhelming number of skills / choices in 3.5. That simplification comes at a price in flexibility and utility. It's especially tempting for a DM to want to simplify it (and that's all I've done for the last 15+ years is DM), but there are other ways to get around the variety of choices you get with NPCs. As for PCs, they only have one character to worry about. They've got it easy :)
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Ok as a genuine submission I would make it part of not one, but three different skills, so more often than not someone in the party will know how to die a know or set a grappling hook.
The three skills I chose were:
Escape Artist: Makes sense, if you know how to get out of a bind, you might have some rudimentary knowledge of how to tie them.
Survival: Seems like something a outdoorsy type of guy would know how to do.
and finally Sleight of Hand: It's dex based and it has to do with being good with your hands.
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Ok as a genuine submission I would make it part of not one, but three different skills, so more often than not someone in the party will know how to die a know or set a grappling hook.
Erm, I assume you mean tie a knot. I mean, I die knows all the time but it seems out of context. :D
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
However, I agree that the uses of Use Rope (hehe) shouldn't just be left out, but should be combined with some other skill. Just about all of the ideas proposed here would work. I'm still partial to Climb (would make the skill more useful, too) or Sleight of Hand (makes the most sense to me), but any of the others could work too.
I have rolled Use Rope into Escape Artist in 3.5E long before it was cut by PFRPG, though I also considered subsuming it within Profession: Sailor. An alternative solution would be to spread it out across multiple skills depending on the use - Climb for grapling hooks and climbing, Escape Artist for tying people and getting out of bonds and so on. In case a particular use of the rope can fall under several of those skills, the character can use the highest relevant skill.
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Ok as a genuine submission I would make it part of not one, but three different skills, so more often than not someone in the party will know how to die a know or set a grappling hook.Erm, I assume you mean tie a knot. I mean, I die knows all the time but it seems out of context. :D
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
However, I agree that the uses of Use Rope (hehe) shouldn't just be left out, but should be combined with some other skill. Just about all of the ideas proposed here would work. I'm still partial to Climb (would make the skill more useful, too) or Sleight of Hand (makes the most sense to me), but any of the others could work too.
Er.. yeah tie a knot. The only problem I have with climb, its that its strength based, so its a skill for the actual physical workings, its not so much knowledge like using survival (wis), or just being good with your hands (dex).
Throwing a grappling hook sounds like an excellent use for CMB.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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It strikes me that the rope is barely relevant to the attempt. Your character is trying to throw a grappling hook and attach it to something. There just happens to be a long rope attached to the grapple.
So (1) use a sling's range modifier of 50' (and I'd count every foot of vertical increase as 2' of range, so tossing a grapple 20' over and 30' up should be considered a range of 80'); (2) decide how would you handle throwing a rock that distance (perhaps a DEX check, using all the SRD Use Rope rules.)
Wait a minute... I thought Use Rope was gone and now it shows up in the Pathfinder RPG Beta Preview #4 under Grappling Hook. Is it in or out?
Well, they do say "Give a man enough rope . . ."
So (1) use a sling's range modifier of 50' (and I'd count every foot of vertical increase as 2' of range, so tossing a grapple 20' over and 30' up should be considered a range of 80'); (2) decide how would you handle throwing a rock that distance (perhaps a DEX check, using all the SRD Use Rope rules.)
Hi, Chris. Taking your idea a step further, treating it exactly as a ranged attack would seem like a viable, common-sense approach. I have a hard time imagining anyone throwing a hook 500 feet, though (or even 250); the world record for the hammer throw is less than 290 ft., and that's an object specifically meant to be thrown large lateral distances (and not to hit anything in particular). So I'd treat it as a thrown weapon (not a sling) and maybe use a range band of 20 ft. That way, a 100-ft. throw is (barely) possible.
Yes, it's silly that in 3.5, high Str adds absolutely nothing to the range of thrown objects/weapons, but that's a subject for a different thread!
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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So I'd treat it as a thrown weapon (not a sling) and maybe use a range band of 20 ft. That way, a 100-ft. throw is (barely) possible.
I was thinking of using the first couple of feet of rope to swing the grappling hook around to build up momentum, something that's hard to do with thrown weapons. A sling seemed the best analogy.
I was thinking of using the first couple of feet of rope to swing the grappling hook around to build up momentum, something that's hard to do with thrown weapons. A sling seemed the best analogy.
Hmmm... yeah, I can see where you're coming from. That's more or less how the Olympic hammer throw works as well (it's basically a weighted ball on a wire with a handle), just with less cord, so the range might still be adjusted downward.
But overall -- details aside -- a ranged attack certainly seems like the most logical mechanic.