Magic Items


Alpha Release 3 General Discussion


Sorry if this is in the wrong place but I couldn't find a spot for "magic item" discussion:

Regarding Stat bump items (Page 140-141):

You've got all physical stats on belt, all mental on headband. While I agree the old "wisdom/constitution neck slot collision" effect was a problem, the idea of sticking three stats on an item seems overkill. Plus, the current setup still causes problems for classes (like monk and ranger) that have more "prime" stats to feed than other classes (fighter, cleric, etc).

For example: it's now quite easy for a Cleric to grab a belt for Constitution and Wisdom (at easy base prices for each), while the poor Monk is trying to feed all three physical stats plus his Wisdom as well, at the exaggerated prices of the 3-stat physical belt.

Suggestion for alternate: allow for any torso-based slot item (head, neck, belt, vest only) to be imbued with a given single stat bump from +2 to +6 on base price. This allows people to find/buy/craft appropriate bumps (up to 4 of their 6 stats if they are willing to forgo other items from those slots) without collision, while hopefully preventing (as possible should someone run a "monty haul" pathfinder setup) people somehow getting +6 to all six stats in only two slots.

Yes, the classes requiring 3-4 "prime" stats are still penalized compared to the 2-"prime" classes, but at least they would have a little easier time of it.

Grand Lodge

In all honesty of all things to limit I just don't see why limit stat enhancements to certain locations.

Ok +4 STR to a headband seems odd, but really now, it's magic, like that belt is REALLY gonna make you stronger.

I houserule, and will houserule, that stat enhancements can go wherever. I also don't want to limit the stackability of them. So the +4 STR headband stacks with the +2 STR Codpiece (belt slot), along with the +2 STR Boots of Speed for a pretty +8 STR.

If I don't want them to have items that stack I just don't give them an item with the stat enhancement on it. The GM is in control of what they get to begin with so I just don't see why the additional limits.


Krome wrote:

In all honesty of all things to limit I just don't see why limit stat enhancements to certain locations.

Ok +4 STR to a headband seems odd, but really now, it's magic, like that belt is REALLY gonna make you stronger.

I houserule, and will houserule, that stat enhancements can go wherever. I also don't want to limit the stackability of them. So the +4 STR headband stacks with the +2 STR Codpiece (belt slot), along with the +2 STR Boots of Speed for a pretty +8 STR.

If I don't want them to have items that stack I just don't give them an item with the stat enhancement on it. The GM is in control of what they get to begin with so I just don't see why the additional limits.

The problem of stackability winds up hurting in an organized campaign, however. Plus, giving out too many stacking bonuses can be a big hurt to game balance.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Krome wrote:

In all honesty of all things to limit I just don't see why limit stat enhancements to certain locations.

Ok +4 STR to a headband seems odd, but really now, it's magic, like that belt is REALLY gonna make you stronger.

I houserule, and will houserule, that stat enhancements can go wherever. I also don't want to limit the stackability of them. So the +4 STR headband stacks with the +2 STR Codpiece (belt slot), along with the +2 STR Boots of Speed for a pretty +8 STR.

If I don't want them to have items that stack I just don't give them an item with the stat enhancement on it. The GM is in control of what they get to begin with so I just don't see why the additional limits.

On stat boosts being in whatever item, I'm mostly with you. Sure, it feels a little silly but whatever. Besides, while a hat of strength seems odd would a helmet of strength make thematic sense? Sure. Both on the head slot.

As for stacking items, though...

Sure, the DM controls what PCs find in the campaign, but PCs can't buy or make items in your campaign? I mean, here's the thing: I get my cleric or wizard or druid and take Craft Wondrous Item and then start churning out +2 stat items at a fraction of the cost of one big stat item. Or I commission an NPC wizard or guild to make them for me. Three +2 items costs 12K vs. one +6 item 36K (base cost, less if you make it yourself).

Even if you make them no-slot items (I'm trying to remember now whether this was revised in Alpha) and double the cost, it's 24K vs. 36K.

And the +8 you mention above is, in the "official" sense, only achievable via an epic magic item at a cost of 640,000 gp. That may be silly, but even if you just scaled it to 64,000, compare to 16,000 for a quartet of +2 items (32K if no-slot).

I just think the economic math breaks with that model unless you also houserule that magic items cannot be created or bought by PCs.

Liberty's Edge

Michael Ahlf wrote:

Sorry if this is in the wrong place but I couldn't find a spot for "magic item" discussion:

Regarding Stat bump items (Page 140-141):

You've got all physical stats on belt, all mental on headband. While I agree the old "wisdom/constitution neck slot collision" effect was a problem, the idea of sticking three stats on an item seems overkill. Plus, the current setup still causes problems for classes (like monk and ranger) that have more "prime" stats to feed than other classes (fighter, cleric, etc).

I think in order to understand the logic, you have to first understand the philosophy behind the change. I believe the change was to change the mindset of most players who use most of their body slots for magic items for the purpose of increasing all their stats. PF wants more diversity and variety in the types of magical items people wear.

Personally, I think it's a great idea - it winds up costing a character more to have multiple stat increases in the same item - so it is a slight deterrent from min/maxing or power-gaming crunching found among so many who just want better/higher stats - which I'll admit the stats are a staplepoint of the D20 system as everything is hinged on their modifiers; but I think this is a move in the right direction to make multiple stats cost more.

And the side-effect of it is - as I stated - it leaves alot of slots available to be used for other cool functioning magical items that just fall the wayside because the the person as a Belt of Con, Boots of Dex, Gauntlets of Str, Periapt of Wis, Cloak of Cha, and Headband of Int all one - leaving only 3 viable spots for anything else!

I think the change makes sense, keeps things more balanced, and provides good results in the end.

Robert


Robert Brambley wrote:
Personally, I think it's a great idea - it winds up costing a character more to have multiple stat increases in the same item - so it is a slight deterrent from min/maxing or power-gaming crunching found among so many who just want better/higher stats.

About the only thing I liked in the Magic Item Compendium was an "Official Rules Errata" that made certain bonuses, including ability score bonuses, not subject to the increased cost of secondary effects. So if you had a Hat of Disguise, you could add Intelligence +2 for the normal cost of 4000 (or vice versa).

This is an alternate solution to the same problem (all a characters item spots being filled with stat boosts, making it very boring/expensive to find other items). I don't mind the Pathfinder solution, but I think the cost increases can be done away with as well.

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