Just thought I'd toss this out since it's the house-rule my group has used.
INIT modifier is also included in the initiative check, so it seemed to us that it didn't make sense to use that as the tie-breaker because it is already factored into the tied scores.
So we decided that whenever initiative was tied, the person with the higher INT acts first under the idea that they're able to take in the scene and make the mental connection required to act just a little faster than the other guy.
Also gives the high INT person a bone from time to time :)
Contributor
|
I break ties as follows:
1) Init bonus. This gives an advantage to PCs who take improved initiative, which makes the feat slightly better, which is good IMO. It also favors high Dex over lucky roll.
2) Dexterity Score. Two characters might have the same bonus, but one has a higher (odd) Dex.
3) Wisdom Score. I see Wisdom as being part of perception, which has a bigger impact on initiative than any of the other stats IMO.
I've only once had to go further, but it was between two PCs, so I just let them decide, figuring one essentially delayed his action.
What you do with WIS is basically what we do with INT. As for INIT bonus and DEX, it makes sense, but both of those things are already figured into the initial die roll, so aren't you really counting them twice?
We used to use higher BAB to break ties previously, to account for experience giving the better fighter a slight upper hand.
Currently, we're trying to play with ties actually occurring simultaneously. We'll see if that creates problems, rather than cool situations.
|
Contributor
|
What you do with WIS is basically what we do with INT. As for INIT bonus and DEX, it makes sense, but both of those things are already figured into the initial die roll, so aren't you really counting them twice?
Sort of, but I don't mind throwing a bone to people who blew a feat on improved initiative and making the odd number stat value of Dexterity count for something once in a while.
BAB as a tie breaker is an excellent idea, and I may throw that into mix, possibly before wisdom.
I suppose if we're making the mistake of trying to make initiative more "realistic," it should be 10 + BAB + Dex modifer + feats (if any). A better-trained person will almost always react faster than a poorly-trained one, even if the latter is more nimble. Mechanically, this would be an enormous disadvantage to PC wizards/sorcerers in fights against monsters, though, so I wouldn't recommend it at all.
Wow ... I think WIS is better than INT for Initiative .
The high-Intelligence person is likely to act last because they will consider all of the various combinations and permutations of options for action, multiple cause-effect relationships of their actions and over-analyze everything.
The high-Wisdom person will have a gut feeling about what to do that is best in the current circumstances and act immediately on that feeling.
However, in my experience, animals react faster than people to almost any situation/stimulus. That should end the INT/WIS question there.
Think about the people at your table. Some are very intelligent but take forever to decide on their PC's actions when it's their turn to act, either because they are not paying attention to the evolving circumstances through the round or because they are over-analyzing every possibility to make the "right" or "best" choice of action.
Actually, the foolish/inattentive people often act the fasted in my experience. They do not make good decisions, but they do act swiftly on their bad decisions, and the speed of action rather than the quality of action is really what Initiative is all about.
Thus, the entire question is really a fallacy, IMHO. DEX is the only relevant stat because Initiative determines only who acts first, not the "correctness" of that action. INT and WIS are both irrelevant to the question of the order in which you act, but rather affect the choice of action when you finally do act.
Really, it's tempting to give a bonus to low-INT / low-WIS characters since they will think of fewer options to act and so have less to consider/evaluate/choose-between when it comes time to...
Rock on!!! So true, dex is the only stat that does matter. I perosnaly give a bone to people who have chosen improved initiative. And in a game of dice I'm surprised no one has just rolled another initiative check, whoever gets higher on this new check, wins the tie. (in the cases of the pc's tying just let them pick which one wants to go first)
Thus, the entire question is really a fallacy, IMHO. DEX is the only relevant stat because Initiative determines only who acts first, not the "correctness" of that action. INT and WIS are both irrelevant to the question of the order in which you act, but rather affect the choice of action when you finally do act.
I disagree. Dex is the most important, and that is reflected in the initiative roll. When the initiative roll is tied, you need some other factor to decide who goes first. INT works well for this. If you use Dex you're using information that was already subsumed into the initiative roll to begin with.
As for the "correctness" of the act, that's an irrelevant argument for purposes of what our group do, because the person acting is able to act in whatever manner he or she wishes. The INT score that breaks the initiative tie doesn't determine the correctness of the act. So your argument that initiative shouldn't determine correctness is beside the point because we don't use it to determine correctness.
This is incorrect. DEX is not "subsumed" into the roll, because the random 1-20 of the roll is far more significant than the +1 to +4 of the DEX modifier. This makes DEX a great tie-breaker.
No, it doesn't. The DEX mod is already part of the initial roll. Using it twice means you're giving that information more weight than it should have.
I don't find your arguments very compelling, and I don't want to reuse information that was already part of the initiative roll as the tie breaker. Doesn't make sense to do it that way.
As for covering whether intelligent people react quicker or slower, you covered it but you didn't cover it WELL. You discounted everything but intelligence in making your argument, but in the instance we're talking about the physical factors (DEX) have already been determined to be even. Your arguments fall apart at that point because they assume Intelligence is the only factor you're looking at.