0 level spells and cure minor wounds


Combat & Magic


First off, I think that making 0 level spells useable at will is a great idea. It gives lower level casters some more bite and high level casters some fun special abilities that are helpful at any level.

When I read the latest play test rules I noticed that Cure Minor Wounds had been replaced with a new spell "Stabalize". I know that this is what most of us used cure minor for, to stop a character who was bleeding from falling any further into the negatives. It makes sense to change the name and function of the spell to something more resembling what we all used it for. However, with the re-thinking of 0 level spells I think that it would be beneficial to keep Cure Minor Wounds as it is. Anyways, I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet but here are my thoughts on the issue.

1. It saves on down time. Instead of breaking between encounters to heal the party and decide which precious spells to use to get the groups preped for the next batch of baddies we can simply assume that the cleric takes the time to top off everbodies HP. After all, it doesn't consume any resources or spells per day. This also should cut down on the amount of times the party needs to camp. It's annoying to have to camp all the time, sometimes after a single encounter. With cure minor as a use at will ability, parties can skip a rather dull step and get on with whatever it was they were doing.

2. It wouldn't effect game balance. Allowing the party cleric to cure one HP per round at will isn't going to change to flow of any battle. I don't think that one HP a round is going to keep even a level 1 party afloat. In battle you need to use the more potent healing spells to keep people going. But if you just need to stabalize someone cure minor is still available.

3. It's kinda cool. The though of the cleric kneeling beside a wounded character and praying over them while their wounds begin to close is a fun mental image. Not the most compelling reason perhaps, but there you have it.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Sel Carim wrote:
1. It saves on down time. Instead of breaking between encounters to heal the party and decide which precious spells to use *snip*

Channel Energy.

Sel Carim wrote:
2. It wouldn't effect game balance. *snip*

Wrong, it does. Players get an inaccurate feel of being prepared for an effect. If the sorcerer is down a few spells but is good for a regular encounter he thinks he's ok because everyone has full hitpoints. If the cleric is down a cure serious or two because of a critical hit or two, the cleric thinks he's ok.

Then they go into the next encounter and get wiped because they were at 75% resources and not 100%.. ill prepared for the boss encounter.

Having all your HP doesn't mean you're ready to go on.

Sel Carim wrote:
3. It's kinda cool. The though of the cleric kneeling beside a wounded character and praying over *snip*

Channel Energy.


I'm not sure I get your reservations here, Urza. Channel Energy ain't for healing. It's a nice benny, but wasting your energy channels to heal means you get ete by some nasty undead critters without your prime weapon. That doesn't smack of tactical excellence. Likewise it's an area effect, so y'know if it's just one injured guy it's pretty ineffective.

Cure minor wounds fills a different niche. Having it be a cantrip doesn't feel unbalanced for the reasons above. It's a full action for one lousy hitpoint. All it does is give another option to having to camp or go all the way back to town if someone gets hurt.

Plus yeah, I agree, it's a cool image. I dig it.

That said, yeah if people think Minor Cure is in some way commensurate for real healing spells--or if they believe that other abilities that need to be restored after a night's rest somehow don't. Well then they're green or dumb and deserve a good whuppin'. Maybe it gives enough rope to PC's to hang themselves with, but unbalanced? No. When you have someting that having it makes you get your rear handed to you, that's not unbalancing...at least not in any bad way.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

In my opinion, it is unbalanced.

If it was available as an orison, then there should be no crippled or hurt people in the world. In a war, an acolyte could heal 400 1st level warriors from the point of death to perfect health, each day. How many acolytes would you need to keep your army in perfect health?

It means that players have no real concerns about their health. If they survive the fight, and can hide for a short bit of time, then, with no resources used, they are all again in perfect health. To me, that is unbalanced and broken.


That sounds like you want to play a Medieval game. D&D is not Medieval real world.

Just because there is no high level technology, doesn't mean there isn't a replacement: Magic. If you have magic to do a whole bunch of things (healing, regeneration, raise dead, transportation, etc), then it's no longer a campaign where people are scared of dying from an infected scratch.

Peasants will still die if they can't get to a cleric. Or if there is disease or poison.

I mean, look at people today, with readily available emergency rooms (1st level clerics for minor things, doctors with raise dead and regenerate for surgery things, etc) and over the counter medications (potions, etc).

If anything, a D&D campaign that has ANY appreciable amount of clerics would seem more similar to today's life expectancy. And yet we still have people dying on the street or in their homes, for simple things that we can easily cure.

Also, soldiers in combat that survive (don't go to -10), aren't really effectively showing the devastation of combat. Thinking of World War I, there was a lot more dismembering and long term damage that D&D basically hand waves as "you died". If a person survived enough that Cure Minor Wounds brings them back, they were only hurt enough to drop them unconscious or the "tired and demoralized" aspect of hitpoint loss.
It seems to me that D&D, even with at-will cure minor wounds, would be much more deadly than the Real World since raise dead costs a high level cleric and some cash, as opposed to the CPR and surgery we would have used in the Real World.

Sovereign Court Contributor

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As can be seen on these two links, I support unlimited CmW. Some don't like it for sure, but I think it is a benefit to design.

EDIT: Make that 3 Links.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Kaisoku wrote:
That sounds like you want to play a Medieval game. D&D is not Medieval real world.

Isn't DnD a medieval fantasy game?

Sorry, couldn't resist that one.

I like the new imagery of channeling positive energy, and how it will most likely "increase" attendance at mass and church functions. Also explain the devotion of the masses to their Gods. And the flip side, of a negative energy channeler trying to cause death, destruction and just generally being an evil person, channeling negative energy in the town square, city market, etc...

As others have already raised the points I would have about Cure Minor Wound, I won't waste everyones time here.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Grimcleaver wrote:
I'm not sure I get your reservations here, Urza. Channel Energy ain't for healing. It's a nice benny, but wasting your energy channels to heal means you get ete by some nasty undead critters without your prime weapon. That doesn't smack of tactical excellence.

Really? You fight undead that often? You fight undead more often then you fight orcs, goblins, trolls, etc. 90% of your D&D time is played fighting undead?

As to the rest of your message, it's clear you either missed or don't understand the concept of resource management. Free HP messes that up. PC should not be able to "hang themselves" because they look at their character sheet and think they're prepared because they're at full health.

Cure Minor allows the cleric to heal without spending resources. This is bad, now you're waiting for the wizard or sorcerer to tell the party it's time to rest and by then it'll be too late.

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