A better approach to Alchemy on Pathfinder

[Dread]

you could simplify it to a great deal....Have two Alchemy skills:

Craft Alchemy: and use it to make the multitude of odd alchemical items...like sunrods, thunderstones etc..

Profession Alchemist: and have 5 sub-skills
Healing: DC 15 (heals 1-4+1 per 5 levels of Alchemist)
Neutralize Poison: DC 18
Cure Disease: DC 20
Neutralize Spell/Spell Like Effect: DC 25
Mimic Spell (and give examples....) DC 30

[ledgabriel]

Wolvorine wrote:

The Alchemist can create things that relate to his field because instead of using his own ability to manipulate Magic (which he doesn’t have), the Alchemist utilizes the inherent flow of Magic found in his ingredients. This takes considerably longer, but does suffice.

Yes, that is my line of thinking also. That's how I started the whole concept of potion brewing with alchemy. Now I'd just have to playtest it, see how it goes.

I got the Netbook of Herbs (it's old, for AD&D still), it has a trillion of herbs, too much for actual gameplay I believe, but good as source material. You can get it HERE

Man, it'd be so nice if the devs gave a little more attention to Alchemy in Pathfinder... oh well..

[Shadowdweller]

I've used an expanded alchemy system in a few games I've run. I feel it has added quite a lot to play, has helped to keep non-casters viable, and wish there was something similar that was more mainstream. Some of the highlights:

* Save DCs based on skill and craft check result. This really had to happen to keep alchemical items useful past 5th level or so. Max save DC = 10 + 1/2 ranks in Craft (alchemy). I've treat base pricing as for potions, but allowed alchemical items that mimic attack spells. I never did get the pricing formula down to what I thought was appropriate and balanced. Increasing the items Save DC increased both base price and craft difficulty.

* A sampling of items I've allowed:
1) Flash-bomb. Creatures in a 10 foot radius must make a Reflex save or be blinded 1d4 rounds. (Priced as potion of Glitterdust)
2) Smoke-bomb. 10 foot radius cloud of smoke. (Priced as potion of obscuring mist).
3) Stink-bomb. Fortitude save or become nauseated 1d4 rounds. -2 Save penalty for creatures with the Scent ability. (Priced as potion of Stinking Cloud)
4) Oilslick. Treated as a potion of Grease. Lasts 1d4 rounds after having been interacted with, unlike Salve of Slipperiness.
5) Caustic tar. Causes 1d4 points acid damage per round to a creature it strikes until wiped off with a move-equivalent action. (100 gp base price)

[mindgamez]

ledgabriel wrote:

mindgamez wrote:

Converting my Alchemist and Herbalist Classes to PRPG has been a stumbling block. .........

.... I just really liked the idea of Infusions and made a couple of custom feats that let them use Artificer Infusions in the field by infusing vials of water and making instant potions on the fly. That is going to be hard to duplicate.

So you used Bastion's Press Alchemist and Herbalist classes or have made two of your own?

Like I mentioned in the start of this thread, wouldn't it be better Alchemy being a skill? Everyone could train in it, maybe even some feats (like Advanced Alchemy to make higher level potions... etc...).
Really, how much of alchemy is there to make a whole class based on it? Considering it's "weak-guy" style like wizards, so low BAB, low HP, it would have to balance out against the Wizard's spells by creating damn powerful potions by the lot... anyway.. I don't know the class.

They are both based on Eberron Artificers. Using the artificer they can "infuse" magic into objects. In the case of the Herbalist and Alchemist that is used to make potions on the fly. Heed a Bulls Strength=Infusion of bulls strength into vial of water then hand to fighter.

Herbalism and Alchemy were just Artifice with scrambled bonus feats. Eventually the artificer gets all creation feats free. I removed some and added new ones to focus them in their fields. Alchemy (non or quasi-magical oils and potions like alchemist fire) or Herbalism (non or quasi-magical healing or buff compounds), Laboratory Magic (a set of cantrip level powers that reduce the need for lab equipment) and brew potion (for full spell duplication compounds) and economy of scale (allows reduced cost for larger batches of potions and other alchemical items) were the first ones they learn.

Then they got other creation feats in a slightly altered order. Anybody can take these feats, the dedicated artificers just got them free. After they had the feat they had to invest skill points in each of a dozen or so "classes" of alchemy or herbal crafts. Alchemical formulas were researched like spells and unique to the Alchemist.

The artificer is a more robust combatant then wizards/sorcerers, Cleric 3/4 BAB, all simple weapons, light and medium armor and shields. But all their "field magic" are buffs of some sort or another. But given time to prepare and money to burn they are VERY powerful. Bag of holding +10th level Alchemist=Grenadier. They are as I have been using them slightly more powerful then core but should stack up to PRPG core classes nicely. When creating magic items they can with a roll of the dice duplicate any arcane or divine spell. Like I said VERY powerful.

Mix the order of acquisition of the creation feats and throw in a few custom ones and you can have a lot of fun with this class. I am now working on a PRPG drift of it for my house rules.

Eberron also offered an NPC class called magewright that was a spellcasting craftsman (it fits the setting) that also had access to these feats for NPC alchemists.

[Yasha0006]

I am going to go back and finish reading this thread in just a minute, but first let me say, "YES!"

I have never been satisfied with Alchemy as has been presented in the game thus far but I've never had the time to compile such things. To the OP, thank you for bringing up this thread. To Dread, I am starting to really really like you (from this thread and some things I've seen you post on others as well).

I am certainly going to adopt that list Dread and likely the mechanic the rest of you have introduced. Good work folks. And thanks to any other contributing posters on this thread too.

Since there are the obvious parallels and the comparison has already been made, the Eberron connection. While I don't really care for the feel of the setting, there are some things they did that I really like.

Do we really believe that every person who is part of a church is really a cleric or paladin? Not very likely IMO. Not to mention most higher ranked members of a priesthood would be more politician than priest (especially in more structured religions, I'd think). So there would be large amounts of experts and aristocrats and multiclass clerics in those organizations.
By using Herbalism and Alchemy in these ways can make churches much more active in the game by healing the sick with 'mundane techniques' while reserving actual blessings (magic) for the faithful and such. Part of the reason I suggest following this option is that the faiths in Pathfinder seem to be angling more in this way. More political. Which I think is good.

Handling things this way also opens the field more for apothecaries. Apothecaries seem to be used for nothing other than contraceptive and poisons in the current 3.5 rules. Introducing more advanced alchemy and
herbalism disciplines will let this be expanded upon greatly.