Caught Off Guard


Skills & Feats

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Caught Off-Guard (Combat)
Foes are surprised by your use of unorthodox weapons.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties for using
an improvised melee weapon. Unarmed opponents are
f lat-footed to any attacks you make with an improvised
melee weapon.
Normal: You take a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with
an improvised weapon.

I can accept the idea that the first time you whip out the barstool and clock your foe on the head you might catch them by surprise, but after they've seen you pull this trick, I don't think that your opponents are going to be slack-jawed the entire fight. It should be revised to indicate that your opponents will be flat-footed for one round. They will be immune to this effect for the rest of this encounter. The lack of attack penalty continues to apply.


I don't like this feat. I don't think you should need a +4 BAB to use improvised weapons. The other benefit justifies the +4BAB, but I want my barwench to be proficient in frying pan w/o 4 levels of fighter, or 6 levels of rogue.

Dark Archive

LazarX wrote:

Caught Off-Guard (Combat)

Foes are surprised by your use of unorthodox weapons.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties for using
an improvised melee weapon. Unarmed opponents are
f lat-footed to any attacks you make with an improvised
melee weapon.
Normal: You take a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with
an improvised weapon.

I can accept the idea that the first time you whip out the barstool and clock your foe on the head you might catch them by surprise, but after they've seen you pull this trick, I don't think that your opponents are going to be slack-jawed the entire fight. It should be revised to indicate that your opponents will be flat-footed for one round. They will be immune to this effect for the rest of this encounter. The lack of attack penalty continues to apply.

The feat only applies against unarmed opponents. Opponents with natural weapons count as armed as do monks. There might be some possible exploits by using disarm, but a disarmed foe is not that much of a threat anyway. It's main use might be against arcane spellcasters, but even than it's not that overpowered, compared to rogues flinging 5 acid bottles per round.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
LazarX wrote:
I can accept the idea that the first time you whip out the barstool and clock your foe on the head you might catch them by surprise, but after they've seen you pull this trick, I don't think that your opponents are going to be slack-jawed the entire fight. It should be revised to indicate that your opponents will be flat-footed for one round. They will be immune to this effect for the rest of this encounter. The lack of attack penalty continues to apply.

A couple of thoughts...

1) It should be called Catch Off-Guard, not Caught Off-Guard.

2) The no penalty for improvised weapons thing is the best part of this ability. That is probably enough for a feat all by itself, called Resourceful Fighter or something. THEN there should be a second feat called Catch Off-Guard that gives you a single attack where your opponent will be flat-footed the first time you use an improvised weapon (i.e., you can't have been using the beer mug the whole time).

3) Why is this only usable against unarmed opponents? I see it as usable against any opponent. Plus, how often do you fight unarmed opponents (you big bully, you)?

Scarab Sages

I agree with Mosaic. I think that this should be split into 2 feats. One that gives the benefit of not taking penalties to use improvised weapons, the second giving the flat footed bonus.

I also agree that there should be some provision for barmaids and other such people. Barmaids should be able to use frying pans/serving platters/mugs and be armed!

*Save the BarMaid! Stop Barmaid oppression! Give them proficency frying pan so that they can defend themselves from patrons and adventurers alike!* ;)


Mosaic wrote:
LazarX wrote:
I can accept the idea that the first time you whip out the barstool and clock your foe on the head you might catch them by surprise, but after they've seen you pull this trick, I don't think that your opponents are going to be slack-jawed the entire fight. It should be revised to indicate that your opponents will be flat-footed for one round. They will be immune to this effect for the rest of this encounter. The lack of attack penalty continues to apply.

A couple of thoughts...

1) It should be called Catch Off-Guard, not Caught Off-Guard.

2) The no penalty for improvised weapons thing is the best part of this ability. That is probably enough for a feat all by itself, called Resourceful Fighter or something. THEN there should be a second feat called Catch Off-Guard that gives you a single attack where your opponent will be flat-footed the first time you use an improvised weapon (i.e., you can't have been using the beer mug the whole time).

3) Why is this only usable against unarmed opponents? I see it as usable against any opponent. Plus, how often do you fight unarmed opponents (you big bully, you)?

agreed


LazarX wrote:


I can accept the idea that the first time you whip out the barstool and clock your foe on the head you might catch them by surprise, but after they've seen you pull this trick, I don't think that your opponents are going to be slack-jawed the entire fight. It should be revised to indicate that your opponents will be flat-footed for one round. They will be immune to this effect for the rest of this encounter. The lack of attack penalty continues to apply.

I do not even think that experienced but unarmed opponents could be surprised that much by some weapon improvising. I think eliminating the penalty is far enough for a feat like this.

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