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Robert and DeadDMWalking--that's some outstanding thought and work. Jason should really appreciate it. The math in the final Suggestion looks solid.
The one hitch with the limits on spending rage by Con modifier would seem to be the present Alpha 3 costs of some rage abilities; they'd be impossible to access without an extremely high Constitution.
Maybe limit the per round expenditure to 1/2 character level + (modified) Con bonus instead? [To the "too much math!} concern, this'd only have to be calculated under two circumstances: leveling up, or effects that affect Con.] That way, a moderately experienced 10th level Barbarian with a raging 20 Constitution (very likely higher, but that's skewed towards low fantasy, low magic) could spend up to 10 rage points per round. With a quick re-read through the Rage Powers (p. 14 and 15), it seems they'd then be able to access most/all of the powers at reasonable levels and with a respectable Constitution score. Con damage/drain would be very much feared by barbarians....
'dwarf, I like the "flavor" of being able to burn off HP to fuel rage, but I worry that with HP being a resource that's readily replenished, things might get dicey. Factor in magical regeneration effects or, worse yet, a monster Barbarian with the same ability, and... yikes. A troll with even one level of Barbarian would be sick.
'dwarf, I like the "flavor" of being able to burn off HP to fuel rage, but I worry that with HP being a resource that's readily replenished, things might get dicey. Factor in magical regeneration effects or, worse yet, a monster Barbarian with the same ability, and... yikes. A troll with even one level of Barbarian would be sick.
Agreed - that's one of the reasons I don't like posting mechanical suggestions without throughly testing them first. I have a keen eye for balance but not as keen as some. I think it also doesn't help that I'm blessed with a group who aren't interested in abusing the rules. ;oD
I guess I'd say HP is a better resource than ability burn because there are more points to be spent. I was thinking that the HP burn could 'lock out' the HP, i.e. you couldn't heal them, regenerate them etc. Effectively it'd lower your overall HP total. For simplicity, you'd gain all these locked out HP back (but not restored, healing would be at the usual rate) at once, after 8 hours of rest a la the standard mechanics for class features.
When I discussed this with my group we agreed it is an awesome idea, and set the rate at 5HP/1RP. Although we posted this in our playtest reports, no one picked up on it, so I've not much more to say than that on the subject. Could someone take a look at it and other 'burn' mechanics from 3.X to come up with a workable version? Like I said above, HP are a better mechanic because there are more of them - we like the feel of the Barbarian slowly exhausting as they spend everything to keep in the fight. Of course, it could be much quicker if the Barbarian has very few HP left....
Peace,
tfad
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DeadDM - I agree with the assessment that the Greater Rage etc should only cost the same as typical rage. Even though per your calculations such a character would wind up with a lot more "rounds" of such rage - the costs of using the powers commensurate of a 20th level barbarian (12 rage points) it will greatly close that gap. And to any who feel that this is appropriate and that a barabarian is supposed to choose more rounds, or cool abilities - but not both: well, most of the other classes have gotten a lot of new abilities that have not potentially dwindled on the number of times they can be done: Rogues get a lot of talents (which can be traded for feats - no limit on the number of times they can be used), sorcerers/wizards now have an "at will power" and several powers that can be done several times per day, the cleric can now do things like that with his domain powers and his channeling of positive energy can now heal as well as turn - and has not been dwindled in the number of times - just by choosing to do so.
IMO, the powers of the barbarian to there to be used and add his abilities - even though they're a finite per day - he still deserves to have enough "points" to be able to use them - and in your calculations 20th level barbarian using his highest level of rage doesn't last nearly long enough - especially if he wants to use his abilties - and whats the point of taking all those cool powers if it causes severe hesitation to use one for fear of burning your points too fast. Furthermore, it becomes more of a math issue to worry about "which str and con bonuses am I adding this round - do I want to spend 2 rage points? 1 rage point or 4 this round? Do I want +4 to STR and CON this round or +6 or +8? What will my attacks be this round? If it was one univeral cost per round - the bonuses would not change once you've acheived a particular rage benchmark.
That being said - I believe CON should remain as a factor in the number of points one gets. In 3.5 the CON does provide a bonus to the number of rounds one can rage per rage - so it seems to be the M.O. I have no problem with it helping. The paladin abilities solely rely on CHA now, as a comparison - his lay on hands, smite evil, Divine Grace and now even the modifier for his spellcasting - so I'm not opposed to an ability score being that primary for a character. I will admit that the CON mod does make a significant differnce (10 points or 10 rounds of raging at 10th level - just for a modifier difference of +1) but I'd rather CON make a big difference than no difference at all.
Ultimately a change in allowing all rages cost the same would make for a much more diversifying encounters in regards to what the barbarian would be able to do.
Robert
Keep the rage points. Meesa like.
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I like Rage points for the following reasons:
- Allows for better resource management of Rage powers - eg, YOU decide which powers and how many times per day. Someone suggested using glass beads to count Rage point expenditure, I like this idea;
- Consistent with Ki points, a similar Pathfinder mechanic for Monks;
- Provides a consistent mechanic which future sourcebooks can add powers to the game, without adding new sub-systems (eg, new Rage powers thematically tied to individual Barbarian tribes). As a comparison, I think turning undead was abused by so many "chanelling" variants, when in hindsight, it should have been written more flexibly in the first instance ("Chanelling points" maybe?).