If my information is correct, the categories were:Paralysis, Poison, or Death magic
Petrify or Polymorph
Rod, Staff,or Wand
Breath Weapon
Spell That would mean that breath weapons are as important as spells, that petrify and polymorph comes up about as often as effects from majick sticks.
Actually the positioning of the savings throw just follows the order listed in the book, not how important they are. A save VS Spell is the most common save used in 2E with each class having a different focus as to which save would be lower unmodified. It's not all that complicated.
Actually the positioning of the savings throw just follows the order listed in the book, not how important they are. A save VS Spell is the most common save used in 2E with each class having a different focus as to which save would be lower unmodified. It's not all that complicated.
If my information is correct, the categories were:Paralysis, Poison, or Death magic
Petrify or Polymorph
Rod, Staff,or Wand
Breath Weapon
Spell That would mean that breath weapons are as important as spells, that petrify and polymorph comes up about as often as effects from majick sticks.
My point is that many of those old saving throws are for really weird stuff, often quite rare, so saying that something that was once a save is all-important to the game is an exaggeration.
In what way have you found it wanting?
I didn't discuss my mechanical objections here because I discussed it on the appropriate thread in the playtest boards. Here I was discussing the spell as a matter of the spirit of the game. Obviously that's a highly subjective evaluation, given that there are people who say 4e continues the spirit of D&D.
The only rationale you have given for why death magic should exist is "it did before, so clearly the designers felt it was at the core of all D&D design principles".
No, that's a misrepresentation of the only rationale I've given as to why it is inconsistent with the spirit of D&D. I confined my other objections to the change, again, to the discussion of save or die spells in general, rather than the thread where the question was whether the Pathfinder RPG carried on the spirit of D&D.
Coincidentally, invoking Monte Cook's name like some sort of holy grail doesn't strengthen your argument.
I suggest you carefully re-read my statement, since I did not invoke Monte Cook for my side. I tried his change (10 hp/level) back when he published it, and found it wanting; I am objecting to Pathfinder being changed to use this same mechanic. I mentioned his name simply to point out where I'd already been able to playtest this exact change, long before the Pathfinder RPG was announced.
I have thought of it a bit, and I start to like the rule of death spells not automatically killing. Beyond stuff like "just dying from one failed save is no fun", it does decrease the potency of death effects a bit. You often hear people complaining that higher-levle play consists of people trying to deathspell enemies, with damage spells being sub-optimal choices. This change can counter that a bit.
Also, as I said, this change is so easy to undo that I don't have a problem with it.