Do we need Weapon Finesse? Really?

[Saurstalk]

Is Weapon Finesse really necessary? I’ve house ruled that Str or Dex work for Grapple (in the spirit of Star Wars Saga), and suspect that I’ll do the same for Pathfinder’s CMB. (Note that Star Wars Saga still have Weapon Finesse as a feat.) Still, this got me to thinking - do we really need weapon finesse? Why not just allow a player to use whichever is his (or her) favored ability score? I’m not worried about backward compatibility, because whenever we come up with weapon finesse as a feat, we can just replace it with another. And if weapon finesse is a requirement for some PrC, we can just ignore it. It seems to me that if someone is proficient with a weapon, then he or she would be able to handle the weapon in a fashion best suited to his or her fighting style, be it through brawn or agility.

[Ceiling90]

Hmmm... that's a good question. I like weapon finesse a lot, though it's kinda silly if you think about it that way...though I'd keep it, with that house rule and allow it to add dex instead of str to damage.

[airwalkrr]

I guess we don't really NEED it. If I understand correctly, you are saying we should basically assume everyone has Weapon Finesse, hence making the rules for the feat part of a character's attack bonus calculation. Rogues would be better in melee and rangers wouldn't have to focus as much on Strength. We do need to think about how this would affect monsters with high Dex though. Although most monsters with high Dex already have the feat, it might require a bit of conversion work.

[Freesword]

I would like to speak in favor of keeping Weapon Finesse. It adds a touch of realism and helps to offset the straining of suspension of disbelief.

Have you ever handled a two-handed sword, large axe, or sledge hammer (maul)? Hitting with these things is all about strength. There is very little finesse involved. That is why weapons like these are not listed as finesseable (able to be used with the weapon finesse feat).

Also, anyone can pick up any weapon and swing hard. Finesse takes training and practice. Combined with my point above, this is why I think it needs to remain a feat.

Granting the ability to use Dex instead of Str for finessable weapons automatically is fine for a house rule, but with the additional number of feats Pathfinder characters get, I see no reason to eliminate this feat.

[LazarX]

Yes we need weapon finesse. Fencing with a rapier is a different set of skills than the standard hacking with a broadsword. A Finesse fighter is someone who obviously would not be going the Power Attack/Cleave route. Dex Fighting is a martial skill not a peasant move.

Weapon Finesse as it was presented in 3.5 is fine as it is.

[Malkari Durant]

I'll throw my lot in with those for keeping weapon finesse. A nice change in the direction of unifcation would be rolling Agile Maneuvers into Weapon Finesse

[Golarion Goblin]

Malkari Durant wrote:

I'll throw my lot in with those for keeping weapon finesse. A nice change in the direction of unifcation would be rolling Agile Maneuvers into Weapon Finesse

Wake the kids, phone the neighbors, I think we have a winner...

[Baquies]

I lean towards keeping Weapon Finesse, it seems that if you took it out, that would make Dex too good an ability score. I mean it already improves AC, Init, a bunch of skills, ranged attack and saves.

[Pneumonica]

Baquies wrote:

I lean towards keeping Weapon Finesse, it seems that if you took it out, that would make Dex too good an ability score. I mean it already improves AC, Init, a bunch of skills, ranged attack and saves.

Dexterity as an ability score hovers somewhere around the area from very powerful to overpowerful as-is. Freely handing it attacks means too much power being given it. I don't mind Weapon Focus and Agile Maneuvers being Feats, but giving those out for free adds too much.

I'm also doubleplus on keeping Weapon Focus and Agile Maneuvers separate Feats, simply on grounds of too much mileage to a single Feat. With two Feats you've converted an important ability score to something that hovers a half-step above dump stat. I think that's good enough - no need to ramp it up any.