I was thinking of the Girdle of Femininity/Masculinity thing and how a cursed vs a non cursed one would work....
Bob the Adventurer is a straight male on donning the girdle he is turned into something that he does not identify as and is uncomfortable as, he can not take the girdle off and must get a remove curse cast to be free.
Bobs best friend Brenda (formerly Brendan) is pre transition trans woman she picks up the girdle and puts it on... Brenda does not change in fact her masculine features are enhanced and she has to get a remove curse to remove the cursed item.
Later after all is said and done Bob buys Brenda a non cursed girdle - Brenda can change gender at will and can remove the girdle with no problem... and she has on occasion allowed Bob to borrow the girdle to sneak into town.
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Just wanted to say something:
For those claiming that homosexuality is a choice:
Prove it. Choose to be homosexual (or if you are homosexual choose to be heterosexual).
If it's a choice you shouldn't have any problems proving it.
Perhaps you could also tell me when exactly you choose to be whichever you claim because I certainly can't remember making that decision for myself.
There was never a point in my life when I just said, "Yup, I decided today, I'm going to be heterosexual. Now that I have decided that what will I wear today?"
I swear that has to be one of the dumbest arguments I have ever heard.
Just wanted to say something:
For those claiming that homosexuality is a choice:
Prove it. Choose to be homosexual (or if you are homosexual choose to be heterosexual).
If it's a choice you shouldn't have any problems proving it.
Perhaps you could also tell me when exactly you choose to be whichever you claim because I certainly can't remember making that decision for myself.
There was never a point in my life when I just said, "Yup, I decided today, I'm going to be heterosexual. Now that I have decided that what will I wear today?"
I swear that has to be one of the dumbest arguments I have ever heard.
This argument is the one I usually hear the the LGBT community use to deride the B portion as being 'insufficiently devoted' to the cause.
I find it silly as well.
But then again, I find that defining one's self by one's orientation, more than anything else one does, on par with wrapping the entirety of one's self-identity in ethnicity. It's as irksome as the 'acting white' argument.
Agreed, what happens with my genitala is not where I start my discussions of who I am.
With that said I have been fortunate in that that part of me and what I do with it hasn't been a source of discrimination towards me either, and I haven't been denied participation in the various parts and privileges of society based on those criteria either.
As such I have more room for those that have suffered persecution for such to be touchy on the subject than I do on those who claim that it's a huge inconvenience for them to have to deal with other people being able to have the same status I enjoy in society.
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This argument is the one I usually hear the the LGBT community use to deride the B portion as being 'insufficiently devoted' to the cause.
I hate this!
I'm like, let's say 95% attracted to women. I'm also in a long-term monogamous relationship so I don't really find myself seriously sexually attracted to other people. But man, I totally dig David Tennant. There's also a really cute guy in one of my tutorials at university that I most definitely enjoy sitting near. I have merry conversations with my gay male and straight female friends about various quite attractive men.
I wouldn't call myself bisexual because, well, as I said, 95%. But that 5% counts too. I don't choose to be attracted to David Tennant, he's just an amazingly beautiful and funny man. :P Saying that I have to deny that 5% part of myself is just as bad as saying I have to deny the 95% of myself. Sexuality's not black or white, it's a varying shade of grey.
(This is also why I use 'queer' rather than 'lesbian', because I feel that it more accurately describes the 'greyness'.)
This argument is the one I usually hear the the LGBT community use to deride the B portion as being 'insufficiently devoted' to the cause.
I find it silly as well.
Amen. I swear, if I have one more homosexual tell me that bisexuals don't exist or that I'm just trying to have sex with everyone I can...
On the topic of Pathfinder, I've noticed that a lot of my characters aren't heterosexual--I think only two so far are hetero, with the rest being either gay, bisexual, asexual, or I have no freaking idea (pretty sure one of my characters is pyrosexual or something...).
Does that mean that safe sex for him/her means using protection from fire?
(This is also why I use 'queer' rather than 'lesbian', because I feel that it more accurately describes the 'greyness'.)
For the 'greyness' I personally thought that the literal translation of the tagalog word bakla worked well. The way it was described to me was neither here nor there.
I will say the one rule which should not be crossed for people playing homosexual characters is the same one that exists for people playing heterosexual ones.
If your hitting on another character and they ask you to stop--you stop. If a female is playing a female character at a table and a male playing a male character keeps hitting on her--it can make her uncomfortable.
The same would go if a male playing a male character was hitting on another male playing a male character. If it bothers them--stop.
You don't have a right to roleplay your character (taking actions to include another character) that crosses over onto rude. A male character who was bothered by your male character hitting on him is no more homophobic than a female character who was bothered by the male character would be heterophobic. It is basic courtesy in both cases.
The person making the unwanted advances is the one being rude and intolerant.
so long as you don't cross that line (either homosexually or heterosexually), then have fun and play your character.
Yeah for sure. Taking a game that is meant to be about adventure, and then playing a character that bothers others with attempted seduction, trying to "convert" them to a different sexuality is a specific type of annoyance and disruption of play.
I was chatting to another dm yesterday, and he was saying that the only time he has seen someone play a trans character, they were being a disruptive nuisance. Yes, yes, your flipping gender and orientation are very interesting, now can we get back to the game--was how it went, unfortunately.
Turning the game into a showcase for identities that didn't help the game in the slightest. Urgh.
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Huh.
My girlfriend is Filipino (although she doesn't really speak much tagalog)... she told me the word 'bakla' is more... insulting. As in, used similar to "f--" I guess. Could just be how her mother and father use it, as both are, uh, shall we say, not very well predisposed towards homosexuality...
(This is also why I use 'queer' rather than 'lesbian', because I feel that it more accurately describes the 'greyness'.)For the 'greyness' I personally thought that the literal translation of the tagalog word bakla worked well. The way it was described to me was neither here nor there.
I had some really good baklava yesterday. That stuff is great. Here nor there, no settled identity, well that certainly happens in people. A friend had the perfect summarisation for such people, but it escapes me at the moment. Neither here nor there works though.
Huh.
My girlfriend is Filipino (although she doesn't really speak much tagalog)... she told me the word 'bakla' is more... insulting. As in, used similar to "f--" I guess. Could just be how her mother and father use it, as both are, uh, shall we say, not very well predisposed towards homosexuality...
Yeah - the word is used as a derogatory term against the subculture in some regards, which is why I referred to the literal translation.
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3.5 if you don't like it you don't have to participate. Like Sarah Palin the thread can simply be ignored.
Hey spalding, just contributing. I've actually seen gay characters come across a bit better than what I've heard of the one trans character.
Sometimes a player will play it quiet, sometimes louder.
Pretty much - which is why the first chapter or two of the Hobbit takes on a whole different meaning depending on how you translate the use of 'queer' :)
got something a bit queer in his make-up from the Took side, something that only waited for a chance to come out.
Contributor
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Pretty much - which is why the first chapter or two of the Hobbit takes on a whole different meaning depending on how you translate the use of 'queer' :)
got something a bit queer in his make-up from the Took side, something that only waited for a chance to come out.
Yep. Never settled down and got married, just off and had adventures with elves and hirsute dwarves, and didn't really fit in. Ran in the family, as Frodo was a bachelor as well.
But Samwise strayed, he has a wondering eye, the bi hoobit.
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Funniest conversation came up in game. My character is a LG Cleric of Iomedae of traditional Cheliaxian descent. So he is openly gay a very masculine character and recently while visiting his mother she mentioned a certain girl he should marry.
The players immediately stopped and said but your character is gay he wouldn`t marry a woman. To which my response is that the GM is playing my mother very validly, I am the only child remaining in the family and carrying the families namesake and while yes he is gay and the mother knows this he still must continue the family bloodline. Meaning he should marry a woman and father a child, regardless of his sexuality.
What are your guys and gals opinions on this?
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Funniest conversation came up in game. My character is a LG Cleric of Iomedae of traditional Cheliaxian descent. So he is openly gay a very masculine character and recently while visiting his mother she mentioned a certain girl he should marry.
The players immediately stopped and said but your character is gay he wouldn`t marry a woman. To which my response is that the GM is playing my mother very validly, I am the only child remaining in the family and carrying the families namesake and while yes he is gay and the mother knows this he still must continue the family bloodline. Meaning he should marry a woman and father a child, regardless of his sexuality.
What are your guys and gals opinions on this?
People who were gay basically had two options - adopt an heir into the family line, or "think of England."
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I get the impression that 3.5 likes to poke with sticks until he stirs up a reaction. It is a very antagonistic way of communicating with people.
I would be nice if he could realise these are very serious issues for the people involved and show some empathy and compassion and not constantly pick at the topic.
Funniest conversation came up in game. My character is a LG Cleric of Iomedae of traditional Cheliaxian descent. So he is openly gay a very masculine character and recently while visiting his mother she mentioned a certain girl he should marry.
The players immediately stopped and said but your character is gay he wouldn`t marry a woman. To which my response is that the GM is playing my mother very validly, I am the only child remaining in the family and carrying the families namesake and while yes he is gay and the mother knows this he still must continue the family bloodline. Meaning he should marry a woman and father a child, regardless of his sexuality.
What are your guys and gals opinions on this?
It mirrors they way the world was until recently, children were expected to continue the family line (regardless of who they were) and provide care for thier parents in old age.
Spinsters and Bachelors (to a lesser extent) were considered burdens.
I think you were playing true to the atmosphere of the setting.
There is a lot of RP potential and plot hooks in that relationship...
Funniest conversation came up in game. My character is a LG Cleric of Iomedae of traditional Cheliaxian descent. So he is openly gay a very masculine character and recently while visiting his mother she mentioned a certain girl he should marry.
The players immediately stopped and said but your character is gay he wouldn`t marry a woman. To which my response is that the GM is playing my mother very validly, I am the only child remaining in the family and carrying the families namesake and while yes he is gay and the mother knows this he still must continue the family bloodline. Meaning he should marry a woman and father a child, regardless of his sexuality.
What are your guys and gals opinions on this?
I like that you played in character.
For a noble, the line must continue, even if by doing so he will go "ewww".
I get the impression that 3.5 likes to poke with sticks until he stirs up a reaction. It is a very antagonistic way of communicating with people.
I would be nice if he could realise these are very serious issues for the people involved and show some empathy and compassion and not constantly pick at the topic.
I consider empathy and compassion the opposite of doubt, and doubt to be far more important in discussions.
Basically don't try and force me to be NG, and complain when I am not.
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I get the impression that 3.5 likes to poke with sticks until he stirs up a reaction. It is a very antagonistic way of communicating with people.
I would be nice if he could realise these are very serious issues for the people involved and show some empathy and compassion and not constantly pick at the topic.
I consider empathy and compassion the opposite of doubt, and doubt to be far more important in discussions.
Basically don't try and force me to be NG, and complain when I am not.
Alignments are not real and I don't use them to judge people as it is not the most mature of ways to interact.
Paizo is a community and it has a diversity of people from all different walks of life. I consider the most important factors in interacting with the community is empathy and compassion.
I have no problems with asking questions or challenging people, in doing so I apply empathy and compassion when framing the question (I am not perfect and can often come across as a pompous arse) but I know I am doing my best to treat the members of my community with dignity.
I used to be like you in some ways - arguing for the sport of it even if I didn't believe in the side I picked just to see if I could win. Cicero was my favourite Roman writer/personality in the end I grew up and realised Cicero got it in the neck because he was an annoying prat.
Funniest conversation came up in game. My character is a LG Cleric of Iomedae of traditional Cheliaxian descent. So he is openly gay a very masculine character and recently while visiting his mother she mentioned a certain girl he should marry.
The players immediately stopped and said but your character is gay he wouldn`t marry a woman. To which my response is that the GM is playing my mother very validly, I am the only child remaining in the family and carrying the families namesake and while yes he is gay and the mother knows this he still must continue the family bloodline. Meaning he should marry a woman and father a child, regardless of his sexuality.
What are your guys and gals opinions on this?
I met a guy almost like this once. A gaming friend tried to set me up with this German guy he knew who was a real life Junker aristocrat. And gay. His ancestors probably persecuted mine; it's the right part of Poland. (I thought that was a funny coincidence.) We did not hit it off because it turned out that some good role-playing he did about the glories of militaristic dictatorships was less role-play and more his real opinions. He had some angst about how he was the last of his line. I suggested that he could adopt, but that would not work because Germany upholds traditional house law for inheritances like his. He could legally have an adopted child, but said child couldn't carry the family name or associated titles, I guess.
I felt a bit bad for him, because it was clearly a big deal to him. But then he started getting really belligerent. That was that.
As expected of a pure quality Junker. Shame he was so belligerent.
Guess he will have to breed or that is that. :)
There is an old saying that everyone while find an Attractive Person Attractive. If that person matches what they find Attractive.
I'm Straight, but I still find guys like David Tennant and such Attractive because their personality is what I like. Would I date them? No. That doesn't mean they are Attractive.
Ahh, I see you are the other person who has used this avatar. Hello! :D
Hey!
The funny part was I left my friend alone with my Laptop and she asked if she could change the Avatar and gave me this.
Where is it from? Is he a Stated out NPC or just an Image?
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I will say the one rule which should not be crossed for people playing homosexual characters is the same one that exists for people playing heterosexual ones.
If your hitting on another character and they ask you to stop--you stop. If a female is playing a female character at a table and a male playing a male character keeps hitting on her--it can make her uncomfortable.
The same would go if a male playing a male character was hitting on another male playing a male character. If it bothers them--stop.
You don't have a right to roleplay your character (taking actions to include another character) that crosses over onto rude. A male character who was bothered by your male character hitting on him is no more homophobic than a female character who was bothered by the male character would be heterophobic. It is basic courtesy in both cases.
The person making the unwanted advances is the one being rude and intolerant.
so long as you don't cross that line (either homosexually or heterosexually), then have fun and play your character.
Yeah for sure. Taking a game that is meant to be about adventure, and then playing a character that bothers others with attempted seduction, trying to "convert" them to a different sexuality is a specific type of annoyance and disruption of play.
I was chatting to another dm yesterday, and he was saying that the only time he has seen someone play a trans character, they were being a disruptive nuisance. Yes, yes, your flipping gender and orientation are very interesting, now can we get back to the game--was how it went, unfortunately.
Turning the game into a showcase for identities that didn't help the game in the slightest. Urgh.
it isn't just about homosexuals and converting. I have seen male characters of male players hit on female characters of female players even when it was obvious the female did not want that kind of attention for her character. It is about respect in general.
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There has not been much on demihumans (to use an old term) and how it flies there amongst those cultures.
An interesting extract from Orcs of Golarion:
Those who constantly defy their culture’s gender expectations and manage to resist the tenacity and violence so often forced upon them eventually can win a measure of independence. Known to their tribes as “cross-souls,” such females are eventually accepted as having the spirits of males, and of stubborn warriors, even reincarnated champions, at that. Once acknowledged as such, orc males typically have little problem accepting these females as fellow fighters and peers—most simply ignore any obvious gender differences. Cross-soul females often go to great lengths to blend in among other males, sometimes even adopting the garb of men, physically altering themselves, or claiming females of their own. In battle, however, all gender related barriers break down, and only viciousness and bloodlust remain.
Progressive orcish culture in at least one direction?
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Azaelas: Avatar source below:
Awesome.
What a coincidence I chose a CE cavalier as my new long term pic.
Good find Mark.
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Mikaze, your post from earlier this evening disappeared, but we're still holding you to your word about the promised story!
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Mikaze, your post from earlier this evening disappeared, but we're still holding you to your word about the promised story!
I promised to start writing it after work tonight, I didn't say anything about finishing! ;)
(I will say that something mentioned on this page does play a part though!)
I am also eager to see how it goes.
:{D>
I had some really good baklava yesterday. That stuff is great. Here nor there, no settled identity, well that certainly happens in people. A friend had the perfect summarisation for such people, but it escapes me at the moment. Neither here nor there works though.(This is also why I use 'queer' rather than 'lesbian', because I feel that it more accurately describes the 'greyness'.)For the 'greyness' I personally thought that the literal translation of the tagalog word bakla worked well. The way it was described to me was neither here nor there.
A person whose gender identity is inconsistent or varies is often referred to as genderqueer or genderfluid.
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I have no problems with asking questions or challenging people, in doing so I apply empathy and compassion when framing the question (I am not perfect and can often come across as a pompous arse) but I know I am doing my best to treat the members of my community with dignity.
Pomposity is sexy.
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Let's take my PFS character Nisha: CG female tiefling (protean bloodline) sorcerer/rogue. She's both a port of a Xaositect NPC I used in two Planescape campaigns, and in this current iteration, she's more or less a complete self-insert of myself mentally. Obviously I'm not a tiefling, and sadly from my perspective I'm outwardly male, but in terms of personality and attraction, it's a spot on match for myself.
The character's sexual orientation has never actually come up in a PFS game, and if it ever even mattered such as an NPC hitting on her, it would be ignored or not returned if the NPC were male, or probably glossed over if the NPC were female. For organized play it's mostly a non-factor, but knowing the character's inner feelings and motivations, and even some head-canon regarding her history makes it easier for me to RP her, with some more depth, and it's easier to get inside of her head.
In a home campaign if I played the same character I'd play out her attractions or not as it became relevant in the game, assuming that the GM and players didn't mind PC/NPC or PC/PC romance to happen. If it didn't fit the style it wouldn't be a major deal, but again, knowing the characters motivations (of which orientation is one) helps in getting a deeper, immersive play experience.
I have a ported over character from the Blackmoor campaign. As part of "his" story in a character conversion in BM he woke up wearing a girdle of opposite gender as a male, meaning that he would be female without it. when he was transferred to a PFS character he came into this world without his gear and is traumatized not only to be female but a delicate extreme beauty of a muse touched aasimar. The idea of attraction/sexuality has not come up yet but the fact that this woman is completely masculine in attitude and movements has been played up, except for a new vulnerability as he finds himself using male friends to hide behind in dealing with other men that might come on to him.
I have no problems with asking questions or challenging people, in doing so I apply empathy and compassion when framing the question (I am not perfect and can often come across as a pompous arse) but I know I am doing my best to treat the members of my community with dignity.Pomposity is sexy.
Its a pity I am on my phone or I would have linked "Right Said Fred's - I'm too sexy"