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Okay. It's been a while, so I think I can go here at this point. It may seem like heresy, but I'd rather have Pathfinder than the "official" mags. No, really. Pathfinder is ad-free, has a setting I actually care about showcased, and has top-notch editing and production values. The monsters are unique and cool, the setting is both fresh and familiar, and the whole thing is just so much more compelling. I'm glad Paizo didn't decide to just publish "wyvern" and "labyrinth" for instance. Because what we got was far superior.
I don't think it's heresy at all.
However, what I miss most from the Dungeon magazines are the varied adventures that I'd be able to incorporate into my games, which for that past several years have been the Adventure Paths.
I loved the Adventure Path idea, and I love the Pathfinder Adventure Paths, as well. But I wish I had the side quests to go along.
I love Kobold Quarterly, and I know that I would love "Wyvern" and "Labyrinth" if they were real. I wouldn't want them to replace Pathfinder, however. I'd happily subscribe to both.
As for the on-line versions of Dragon and Dungeon, I can't say I'm happy with them. I don't find the on-line version useful to me, as I don't enjoy reading off the computer screen, and I don't want folders filled with loose-leaf printed material that is inconvenient to read anywhere else.
I really want Dragon and Dugeon to be great. I wish I felt no mental anguish over deliberating to subscribe to get them.
It's not that I don't like the articles they've posted. It's not that I don't like the adventures I've seen.
It's mostly that Dragon and Dungeon are more than the sum of its parts, but what I feel I've been getting for the past months has been "the parts" and not the whole. Even the compiled issues have lost some of their luster for me, because by the time they're compiled, it just seems like a collection of on-line content, not the coherent magazines that I liked with new material each month.
[Attempt at humor] Maybe if they put NEXT MONTH: SEX AND D&D on the cover every month, that would help. But honestly, who would do that. :) [/Attempt at humor]
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I don't think it's heresy at all.
However, what I miss most from the Dungeon magazines are the varied adventures that I'd be able to incorporate into my games, which for that past several years have been the Adventure Paths.
I loved the Adventure Path idea, and I love the Pathfinder Adventure Paths, as well. But I wish I had the side quests to go along.
I love Kobold Quarterly, and I know that I would love "Wyvern" and "Labyrinth" if they were real. I wouldn't want them to replace Pathfinder, however. I'd happily subscribe to both.
Oh, so would I. But that's likely never going to be an option. I have a KQ subscription, though. Does that count?
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I believe that Pathfinder and it's associated products are the best work done for D&D to date. I said long agao I would follow Paizo in the edition decision and I have and will. I love getting the PDFs with my subscriptions. I find that I actually am printing all the material and putting it in notebooks and using those to run my campaigns. I am a very happy camper.
When all this first started I was a voice for change being good and defended WotC for the decisions they made. I have been very disappointed with what has come out in DDI as Dragon and Dungeon. At first I thought it would be great - I find that my magazines sit in a platic crate in the garage and I rarely pull them out. I have most Dragons on PDF and I have many Dungeons in that format. I would rather print the one adventure or article I want than have the magazine sitting around (I also do not like reading off the screen).
A couple things have disappointed me. The first is that in the 7 months we have had DDI they have not even really done three issues of each. These past few months has been their chance to really sell us all on DDI and they have fallen short. I may pay for it anyway and see if there is an improvement. I am a bit of a completist.
I have no desire to subscribe to the new Dragon and Dungeon, even though I'll probably eventually pick up 4th edition (won't play it for quite a while though).
Pathfinder on the other hand is definitely the one gaming supplement I subscribe too. If I could I'd subscribe to more of Paizo's fine work, but family and mortgage come first. :)
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I have absolutely NO intention of buying 4th edition. If its GSl is anything like the d20 SRD, I might download it, but there's really little initiative to do anything with it.
Frankly, I can't get excited about 4e. I read about all the new ideas and think how easily 3rd edition pretty much can play out with those ideas - talking fluff primarily - points of light.
But Pathfinder?
I look forward to my white cardboard package just as eagerly as I did to Dragon and Dungeon . . . if not more so. The amount of care that goes into the product and story are ausgezeichnet. (Granted, I was more of a Dungeon fan than Dragon fan. Frankly, I just got overwhelmed with the torrent of Dragon content.)
That said, I'm really looking forward to Pathfinder RPG. I already imagine that I'll be dropping in some house rules, but that's no biggie.
Again, what impresses me is the care that's going into the product line. And the communication.
Paizo is whupping WotC on one major front, IMO, and that's customer relations. I feel like Paizo really cares about us . . . just as much, if not more, than it cares about the game. THAT'S IMPORTANT.
Keep up the good work, Paizo.
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I have absolutely NO intention of buying 4th edition. If its GSl is anything like the d20 SRD, I might download it, but there's really little initiative to do anything with it.
Frankly, I can't get excited about 4e. I read about all the new ideas and think how easily 3rd edition pretty much can play out with those ideas - talking fluff primarily - points of light.
You know, 4e may be an awesome game. It might wind up being superior to 3.5 by any reasonable standard. (I doubt it, but it might happen.) You know what I say to that? So what. I have my system and my company. WotC has lost its proverbial chance to keep me as a customer. I'm playing PRPG regardless of what 4e is like.
The combination of Pathfinder and Kobold Quarterly is truly stellar. I hope that Wizards can pull together DDI, and if so, I will give it an open-minded evaluation. But there is no gap in what I need, thanks to the masterful stuff from Paizo and Open Design.
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I loved the Adventure Path idea, and I love the Pathfinder Adventure Paths, as well. But I wish I had the side quests to go along.
Then Pathfinder must really be making you happy with the announcement of the side trek adventures to become part of the mag in the future, starting with Second Darkness I think? 8 or 9 pages adventures to go with the Adventure Path but also transportable.
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I believe that Pathfinder and it's associated products are the best work done for D&D to date.You have no idea how good that makes us feel.
Well, maybe you do, but in any case: Thank you. :)
You are welcome. I have been playing for over 25 years and I will be playing your APs as long as you publish them.
Then Pathfinder must really be making you happy with the announcement of the side trek adventures to become part of the mag in the future, starting with Second Darkness I think? 8 or 9 pages adventures to go with the Adventure Path but also transportable.
This is indeed exciting news! I can't wait to see it!
I agree that Pathfinder is superior to Dungeon and Dragon. One reason for that is probably that the format allows for longer and more in depth articles/chapters. In any case I'm very happy with my subscriptions at the moment.
It was originally my intention to buy 4th edition, but the more information I get about it the less interested I get. As it looks now I will probably make a full conversion to PRPG for my next campaign instead.
Okay. It's been a while, so I think I can go here at this point. It may seem like heresy, but I'd rather have Pathfinder than the "official" mags. No, really. Pathfinder is ad-free, has a setting I actually care about showcased, and has top-notch editing and production values. The monsters are unique and cool, the setting is both fresh and familiar, and the whole thing is just so much more compelling. I'm glad Paizo didn't decide to just publish "wyvern" and "labyrinth" for instance. Because what we got was far superior.
I for one am glad to follow Paizo in they're endeavors. They have long ago proven to be more willing to work with, and listen to, they're fans then WotC.
I am not a fan of the all digital format of the "new" Dragon and Dungeon e-mags... I do not subsribe to them, and probably never will. I do enjoy having a digital copy of my existing books however as it is quicker to transit, and works better with my career choice. (I am in the Army).That said, I am happy to know I have my archive of hardcopies in acid free 3ring binder sleeves sitting in my home, waiting for me to get home and lovingly re-pour over.
I will not be buying 4e, or any other WotC product released after the Rules Compedium. I was frankly disgusted by the RCs use of recycled art from Dungeon and Dragon magazines, and various other books from WotC, and the book would never have entered my collection had it not been such a quick reference tool. As such, it sits in my bag, away from the cherished Shelf, in shame...
My Pathfinder material, sits on the shelf above my 3.5 books, which in turn sit above my AD&D gear. I still reference all three, and will continue too. But if somone were to ask me the path that Dungeons and Dragons took in 2008... I will tell them that Paizo Publishing launched Pathfinder, an OGL 3.5 compatible game, to counter a money grab by WotC,
Whether or not Pathfinder is here to stay is still not for me to say. I am sinply a consumer... however, so long as I manage to remain online, and so long as I manage to have money to pay for it.
Pathfinder is my game of choice.
Shadows hide you...
~Elvnsword
I might go one further and say that Pathfinder is creeping up my "favorite settings" list with quickness.
There are some things I like about three settings and I would like to point them out.
1) Forgotten Realms: If you want a setting with massive info and lots of history, the realms are it. The realms shine not only in scope of info, but in NPC character creation as well. Some of that has to do with so many novel-characters in the realms, but either way the realms has history upon history, and such a large amount of info it's almost hard to decide where to start when looking at it all.
2) Eberron: Now some people don't like Eberron and to those people I say you are wacked out of your skull! Not because of the fluff and warforged, I can see the theme putting people off, but Eberron shines in two areas that cannot be overlooked.
The first is conpiracy. The game is set up open ended and their are too many ties, binds, and deals to keep track of. The potential for conspiracy and shading dealings is excellent... hell even the church that represents "ultimate goodness" has a dark side and shady dealing bred into its creation.
The second is gameness... gamiosity if you will. Eberron is game-tastic, and if there were a gamerific award Eberron may win first place. Everything in the entire setting seems to be presented as if you are going to use that to play a game with, and this is by far the most DM-friendly campaign setting that you will play in that regard.
3) Greyhawk: Greyhawk has an "old" feel to it, and I'm not sure how to describe that any other way. Monsters seem more dangerous in Greyhawk, terrible evils more ancient and evil, and death seems darker and more unplesant. You get the feeling of being "alone" in Greyhawk somehow, and something terrible and other-worldly might or might not be behind the next dungeon door.
Well I feel that Pathfinder has taken some of the best from these three and are making a campaign setting out of it. I certainly get the "old" feel especially in the Classic monsters Revisited, and the first three Burnt Offerings books were killer in this regard. The detail you put into Karvosa and Sandpoint as well in the first Burnt offerings book gave me the same kind of "realms" feel that I enjoy. The setting so far has also been very gamer-friendly. I could easily take what I know from Sandpoint and spin an entire adventure off of just what's going on in that town, which gives me a bit of that open-ended conspiracy and DM friendliness I enjoy from Eberron.
I guess I have to say that I'm impressed.
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I have been thinking about this ever since Pathfinder was announced. IMHO, Pathfinder is a much better product than the old Dungeon & Dragon magazines. Sure there was some things I liked the magazines, and I do miss the nostalgia of the old Dragon magazines, but Pathfinder is a better product.
As an aside, the current content of the online magazines is terrible. Hopefully WotC will be improving it.
As i just said this morning on another thread, i miss Dragon & Dungeon magazines.
Pathfinder vs their current reincarnations ?
No match. Pathfinder wins, by far. No doubt about that.
This being said, as good the Pathfinder line can be, it is still dedicated to a specific setting and scenarii.
What i enjoyed in Dragon was the multitude of articles, fluff or crunch, about races, classes, magic, equipment, atmosphere, and all that stuff.
Whatever was inside could be used one way or another.
It was a source of inspiration.
I miss Dragon :(
/cry
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I look forward to my white cardboard package just as eagerly as I did to Dragon and Dungeon . . . if not more so.
My thoughts exactly. Even moreso than when the mags used to arrive I tear into Pathfinder and Gamemastery modules with great anticipation, and the best part is they just keep getting better or retain the quality.
-DM Jeff
Agreeing with Saurstalk and DM Jeff. I really look forward to the emails from customer service letting me know that I will be getting a package of Paizo goodness in the next few days.
Once again proving that Paizo has the best customer service in the world! Not just going out of their way to make customers happy, but really caring if that is so!
What i enjoyed in Dragon was the multitude of articles, fluff or crunch, about races, classes, magic, equipment, atmosphere, and all that stuff.
Whatever was inside could be used one way or another.
It was a source of inspiration.I miss Dragon :(
I also miss Dragon for the same reason.
But if I had to choose between Dragon or Pathfinder - make mine Pathfinder! This is hands down the BEST setting I have seen for the D20 system, and as a MAJOR Freeport fan, that's really saying a lot!
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I believe that Pathfinder and it's associated products are the best work done for D&D to date.You have no idea how good that makes us feel.
Well, maybe you do, but in any case: Thank you. :)
I agree. Even dipping back into time, to what I'll call the Golden Age of Dungeon and Dragon magazine, it's all been getting better and better.
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I might go one further and say that Pathfinder is creeping up my "favorite settings" list with quickness.
There are some things I like about three settings and I would like to point them out.
1) Forgotten Realms: If you want a setting with massive info and lots of history, the realms are it. The realms shine not only in scope of info, but in NPC character creation as well. Some of that has to do with so many novel-characters in the realms, but either way the realms has history upon history, and such a large amount of info it's almost hard to decide where to start when looking at it all.
2) Eberron: Now some people don't like Eberron and to those people I say you are wacked out of your skull! Not because of the fluff and warforged, I can see the theme putting people off, but Eberron shines in two areas that cannot be overlooked.
The first is conpiracy. The game is set up open ended and their are too many ties, binds, and deals to keep track of. The potential for conspiracy and shading dealings is excellent... hell even the church that represents "ultimate goodness" has a dark side and shady dealing bred into its creation.
The second is gameness... gamiosity if you will. Eberron is game-tastic, and if there were a gamerific award Eberron may win first place. Everything in the entire setting seems to be presented as if you are going to use that to play a game with, and this is by far the most DM-friendly campaign setting that you will play in that regard.
3) Greyhawk: Greyhawk has an "old" feel to it, and I'm not sure how to describe that any other way. Monsters seem more dangerous in Greyhawk, terrible evils more ancient and evil, and death seems darker and more unplesant. You get the feeling of being "alone" in Greyhawk somehow, and something terrible and other-worldly might or might not be behind the next dungeon door.
Well I feel that Pathfinder has taken some of the best from these three and are making a campaign setting out of it. I certainly get the "old" feel especially in...
I've been a FR fan since my first Drizzt book. (Not that I'm a fan of that boring whiny dark elf anymore, but that's another post.) I really like the immersive environment. My players are also big FR readers, and so, there isn't much background that I need to throw out to get the adventure going. They know the geography and some of the politics. We also like the magical richness of the setting. When they come across an adversarial adventuring party - if they survive, they have some pretty darn good loot to stuff into their bags of holding.
Eberron? I really like alot of the crunch, but am not a fan of the fluff. This isn't a poor reflection of Eberron itself, but rather my sense that the campaign setting itself really has little more to offer that I can't draw out of Forgotten Realms. (But yes, changlings, shifters, warforged, and action points do exist in FR.)
Greyhawk? Never really played it, but for the modules of old that had it as a backdrop. Not memorable for me.
Golarion? Hard to say. I like some of the themes, but am still getting a feel for the setting. I don't take it as the setting so much as its creators to include the dark gritty nature that I appreciate.
Still, favorite settings of all time? I'd keep FR at the top, but there are others that bear mentioning.
Dark Sun. Now that was a gritty setting. In fact, I envision that during the Runelords reign, the oppresive feel of Dark Sun could be fairly well imitated . . . but not so much the devastation.
Planescape. That had everything, but unless your players were familiar with Planescape, it was easy for them to lose any sense of foundation.
Ravenloft. Dark, dreary, deadly. (Or at least, it could be.)
Spelljammer. Never played it, but I really liked the fantastic feel for it.
d20Modern/UrbanArcana/DarkSun. Okay, not D&D. But regardless, I'm running a couple of campaigns in the gloom of the modern era and they are going wonderfully. (Side Note: I REALLY HOPE PAIZO STRETCHES BEYOND JUST GOLARION!)
I'm definitely a dissenting opinion - the old (read: 3.5, printed) Dungeon magazine blows the living hooey out of Pathfinder... twice on Sundays. Dungeon had the APs as well as other adventures, Maps of Mystery, backdrops... and were all much easier to integrate into any campaign you wanted (and weren't saddled with all this Golarion stuff) and didn't (seem to) have much wasted space like the "iconics", bleh.
Pathfinder, while great, doesn't hold a candle to the printed Dungeon mag, AFAIC.
But the 'new' Dungeon and Dragon? Hoo boy - Pathfinder kicks the poo-poo out of that mess.
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Another vote for Pathfinder filling the addiction that used to be Dragon/Dungeon. Even having the PDF ahead of time, I'm still excited to get the print edition a few weeks later. While I have not run either of the adventure paths yet, I have made use of some of the monsters (Wendigo, Carrion Golem) and had inspiration from some adventures (said Carrion Golem caused an outbreak in the PCs base-town, a la 7DttG). Any of the "extra fluff" that isn't folded into the Pathfinder proper is around in the companions (can't wait for "Classic Monsters Revisited 2", even if it hasn't been officially announced yet, it's gotta come!).
Keep up the good work!
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Pathfinder, Gamemastery, PAIZO... these are the names I associate with the highest quality dungeons and dragons materials I've ever seen. Beginning with Erik Mona's work with the magazines (before they went away) I've see him and the PAIZO team usher in the new Golden Age of dnd. We may not be able to use the logo, but make no mistake. PAIZO is where dnd truly continues.
Thank you PAIZO for continuing the excellent work you started, except now on your own.
3.5 Never Dies. PRPG Forever.
