Monk Special Weapons and Unarmed Strike


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So... I had this long eloquent post that the boards just ate, so here's the down and dirty version!

One idea that I had for the 3.p Monk was for Special Monk weapon damage to equal unarmed strike damage. This will allow monks to bypass damage reduction dependent on material, damage type, alignment, etc without losing alot of damage output. It also allows monks to make use of the more interesting weapon enhancements and for legendary/epic monk weapons, which I think would really boost the martial arts feel of the class. While the paladin is out looking for his Holy Sword or the wizard his Staff of Power, the monk can quest for the legendary Kama of the Lost Masters.

The only caveat is that a high level monk with two-weapon fighting and flurry of blows could kick out a LOT of damage, 2d10 base from each of possibly eight attacks for a -4 penalty to hit. To alleviate this you may have to make Flurry and Two-Weapon fighting mutually exclusive.

As an aside, and possibly thread-jacking my own thread, if you add one line to Razor Sharp Chair Leg that makes improvised weapons special monk weapons, you can get a Drunken Master feel without a need for a prestige class.

Ryn, who saved this post as a word document in case the boards are still hungry

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Rynthief wrote:

So... I had this long eloquent post that the boards just ate, so here's the down and dirty version!

One idea that I had for the 3.p Monk was for Special Monk weapon damage to equal unarmed strike damage. This will allow monks to bypass damage reduction dependent on material, damage type, alignment, etc without losing alot of damage output. It also allows monks to make use of the more interesting weapon enhancements and for legendary/epic monk weapons, which I think would really boost the martial arts feel of the class. While the paladin is out looking for his Holy Sword or the wizard his Staff of Power, the monk can quest for the legendary Kama of the Lost Masters.

The only caveat is that a high level monk with two-weapon fighting and flurry of blows could kick out a LOT of damage, 2d10 base from each of possibly eight attacks for a -4 penalty to hit. To alleviate this you may have to make Flurry and Two-Weapon fighting mutually exclusive.

As an aside, and possibly thread-jacking my own thread, if you add one line to Razor Sharp Chair Leg that makes improvised weapons special monk weapons, you can get a Drunken Master feel without a need for a prestige class.

Ryn, who saved this post as a word document in case the boards are still hungry

Well, first of all, remember that a sufficiently high level monk's unarmed strikes are treated as magical / axiomatic / adamantine weapons. This is specifically in there so that monks aren't dependent on using weapons to bypass several kinds of DR.

However, you thinking in the right direction. It was not clear to me (or my players) why a 15th level monk loses so much damage potential when he picks up a kama or a butterfly sword or somesuch.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Rynthief wrote:

So... I had this long eloquent post that the boards just ate, so here's the down and dirty version!

One idea that I had for the 3.p Monk was for Special Monk weapon damage to equal unarmed strike damage. This will allow monks to bypass damage reduction dependent on material, damage type, alignment, etc without losing alot of damage output. It also allows monks to make use of the more interesting weapon enhancements and for legendary/epic monk weapons, which I think would really boost the martial arts feel of the class. While the paladin is out looking for his Holy Sword or the wizard his Staff of Power, the monk can quest for the legendary Kama of the Lost Masters.

The only caveat is that a high level monk with two-weapon fighting and flurry of blows could kick out a LOT of damage, 2d10 base from each of possibly eight attacks for a -4 penalty to hit. To alleviate this you may have to make Flurry and Two-Weapon fighting mutually exclusive.

As an aside, and possibly thread-jacking my own thread, if you add one line to Razor Sharp Chair Leg that makes improvised weapons special monk weapons, you can get a Drunken Master feel without a need for a prestige class.

Ryn, who saved this post as a word document in case the boards are still hungry

Oh, and...2WF and FoB do not stack. A monk can execute one feat or the other but not both in the same Full Attack.

Liberty's Edge

Since the Monk isn't in the Alpha release 2, please contain all such posts to this board.

The Exchange

Azzy wrote:
Since the Monk isn't in the Alpha release 2, please contain all such posts to this board.

Sorry for the mis-post. Vic (or whom this may concern), can we get this post moved to the appropriate board? I have a couple more ideas that expand upon this one...

Ryn, who might just be onto something


delabarre wrote:
Oh, and...2WF and FoB do not stack. A monk can execute one feat or the other but not both in the same Full Attack.

They do, at least in 3.5 RAW, and this is explicitly clarified on the wizards site, though I forget if it is in the FAQ or a sage article, etc.

Edit:
Clarification is in the faq.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
nebosuke wrote:
delabarre wrote:
Oh, and...2WF and FoB do not stack.

They do, at least in 3.5 RAW,

Edit:
Clarification is in the faq.

The FAQ contradicts the PHB in this instance*. From PHB pg. 41, in the description of the monk's Unarmed Strike:

"A monk's attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed." (emphasis mine)

Mechanically, the Flurry of Blows ability is Two-Weapon Fighting that improves as the monk advances and allows the monk to split the attacks between monk weapons and unarmed attacks in any combination.

*- There are other instances where the FAQ contradicts the 3.5 rulebooks (or even common sense): stacking of two defending weapons for AC when Two-Weapon Fighting is not allowed (even though the description explicitly says the bonus stacks "with all others") while a magical shield with defending shield spikes (and Improved Shield Bash/Two-Weapon Fighting) is OK; someone fighing with two speed weapons can't gain an extra attack with both weapons, but a monk can use a flurry with a speed monk weapon and gain "off-hand" unarmed strikes with Two-Weapon Fighting (or vice versa).


Irrelevant. Even if you disagree with the FAQ's clarification of the exact point you raise, which would be fair, all that would mean is that a monk would have to use a monk weapon for the off-hand twf attacks rather than an unarmed strike.

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