Ok, lots of flavor changes here. Unfortunately, substantial mechanical problems are unchanged:
-Sorcerer Tax: Sorcerer still get spells a level late for no reason. It wouldn't even be hard to make it backwards compatible in old adventures since you'd take a Sorcerer and just drop his level by one. Just remove the 2nd level from the game. Getting spells at the same rate as a Wizard or Cleric is not unreasonable, considering the power of both.
-Still No Reason to Stop PrCing Out: The abilities are very flavorful, they they don't actually make you win encounters and there are still problems that are only addressed in PrCing like:
-Need a bonus known spell when you gain a spell level. Its a cruel joke to let a spontaneous caster get his choice of one spell to cast with his new level of slots.
-Need some ability to use metamagic. Sorcerers still have no reason to take metmagic.
-Bloodline abilities are not equivalent to spells gained at that level (which is the standard that Wizards and Clerics use in (Pathfinder), or even increase your spellcasting ability in any way (we don't count an extra check vs. SR once a day). The Arcane Bloodline almost does this, but its laughable that they get normal metamagic use at 20th level. The Universalist Wizard still mocks him. A lot.
Some new flaws have been introduced:
Bonus Feats a joke: Diehard...Endurance...Iron Will. These are the feats that make people laugh when they see it on a character sheet. I think that each Bloodline has maybe two feats that would work with a specific build. In short, free junk is still junk.
In short, while the Wizard has received substantial boosts in ability to use his spells, the Sorcerer is still PrCing out as soon as possible. Each bloodline is basically worth a single casting of a shapechanging spell.
Alas, it is true. If the sorcerer got the powerful paint coat that the wizard got, it would be smooth sailing for 'em from here on out. But, since they didn't, it looks like we will have to wait it out for Paizo to make improvements or wait for somebody to make their own feasible sorcerer fix.
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Ok, lots of flavor changes here. Unfortunately, substantial mechanical problems are unchanged:
-Sorcerer Tax: Sorcerer still get spells a level late for no reason. It wouldn't even be hard to make it backwards compatible in old adventures since you'd take a Sorcerer and just drop his level by one. Just remove the 2nd level from the game. Getting spells at the same rate as a Wizard or Cleric is not unreasonable, considering the power of both.
-Still No Reason to Stop PrCing Out: The abilities are very flavorful, they they don't actually make you win encounters and there are still problems that are only addressed in PrCing like:
-Need a bonus known spell when you gain a spell level. Its a cruel joke to let a spontaneous caster get his choice of one spell to cast with his new level of slots.
-Need some ability to use metamagic. Sorcerers still have no reason to take metmagic.
-Bloodline abilities are not equivalent to spells gained at that level (which is the standard that Wizards and Clerics use in (Pathfinder), or even increase your spellcasting ability in any way (we don't count an extra check vs. SR once a day). The Arcane Bloodline almost does this, but its laughable that they get normal metamagic use at 20th level. The Universalist Wizard still mocks him. A lot.
Some new flaws have been introduced:
Bonus Feats a joke: Diehard...Endurance...Iron Will. These are the feats that make people laugh when they see it on a character sheet. I think that each Bloodline has maybe two feats that would work with a specific build. In short, free junk is still junk.
In short, while the Wizard has received substantial boosts in ability to use his spells, the Sorcerer is still PrCing out as soon as possible. Each bloodline is basically worth a single casting of a shapechanging spell.
While I don't agree with all of this, I do want to know what's with sorcerers not getting the cantrip/orison ability like the rest of the primary spellcasters?
While I don't agree with all of this, I do want to know what's with sorcerers not getting the cantrip/orison ability like the rest of the primary...Ok, lots of flavor changes here. Unfortunately, substantial mechanical problems are unchanged:
-Sorcerer Tax: Sorcerer still get spells a level late for no reason. It wouldn't even be hard to make it backwards compatible in old adventures since you'd take a Sorcerer and just drop his level by one. Just remove the 2nd level from the game. Getting spells at the same rate as a Wizard or Cleric is not unreasonable, considering the power of both.
-Still No Reason to Stop PrCing Out: The abilities are very flavorful, they they don't actually make you win encounters and there are still problems that are only addressed in PrCing like:
-Need a bonus known spell when you gain a spell level. Its a cruel joke to let a spontaneous caster get his choice of one spell to cast with his new level of slots.
-Need some ability to use metamagic. Sorcerers still have no reason to take metmagic.
-Bloodline abilities are not equivalent to spells gained at that level (which is the standard that Wizards and Clerics use in (Pathfinder), or even increase your spellcasting ability in any way (we don't count an extra check vs. SR once a day). The Arcane Bloodline almost does this, but its laughable that they get normal metamagic use at 20th level. The Universalist Wizard still mocks him. A lot.
Some new flaws have been introduced:
Bonus Feats a joke: Diehard...Endurance...Iron Will. These are the feats that make people laugh when they see it on a character sheet. I think that each Bloodline has maybe two feats that would work with a specific build. In short, free junk is still junk.
In short, while the Wizard has received substantial boosts in ability to use his spells, the Sorcerer is still PrCing out as soon as possible. Each bloodline is basically worth a single casting of a shapechanging spell.
You know, I didn't even notice that. Why exactly is it that sorcerers wouldn't gain such benefits? Did they honestly think the sorcerer more powerful than the wizard?
K you nailed it with this thread. Anything was an improvement but the class is still crippled and with backwards compatibility there is really no reason not to PRC the cost just isn't that high for what the PF sorcerer provides with it's specials.
Really dislike how the bonus feats are limited and pidgeonholed. Really think most of the L15 abilities are lame for when they are being acquired. Flying wings which are apparently permanent but SU. Limited duration Incorporeal Form without spellcasting.
Noticed the class still doesn't get Diplomacy despite being a Charisma based class. Actually another yard stick of how useless the other class specials are in game that the PF sorcerer class doesn't pick up a skill (UMD) that doesn't cost PC resources to use effectively in game. UMD is nice but to really use the skill in any but a limited form costs the PC magical resources.
I really had high hopes for the class with so much room for improvement and I am disappointed.
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K you nailed it with this thread. Anything was an improvement but the class is still crippled and with backwards compatibility there is really no reason not to PRC the cost just isn't that high for what the PF sorcerer provides with it's specials. Really dislike how the bonus feats are limited and pidgeonholed. Really think most of the L15 abilities are lame for when they are being acquired. Flying wings which are apparently permanent but SU. Limited duration Incorporeal Form without spellcasting.
That undead bloodline ability with the skeletal clawing hands is just awesome, though.
I disagree, but I don't really see the sorc as crippled to begin with. As with the wizard, druid, and cleric I felt they needed fluff and not bang. The wizard didn't really get a boost in power, just some more consistant abilities to make up for the fact of running dry. The specialist actually got powered down by comparison.
I did not notice that they do not get cantrips though...that sucks and should be changed
That undead bloodline ability with the skeletal clawing hands is just awesome, though.
That is at L9. I could have a Sorcerer - 1, Binder -1, Anima Mage -4, 3X-PRC or go Beguiler -1, Wizard - 4, Ultimate Magus with -4 for lots of spellcasting. So many options with that single Vestige. I could be calling down lighting bolts anywhere underwater, underground etc when I run out of spells
Consider the first level ability Grave Touch. This is cool looking but basically worthless IMO.
I must play in really different games.
Why in the world is the Sorcerer mixing it up in melee combat with a Melee Touch attack when he doesn't wear armor and only knows 2 first level spells?
Why isn't the ability Ray of Enfeeblement or something comparable?
I disagree, but I don't really see the sorc as crippled to begin with. As with the wizard, druid, and cleric I felt they needed fluff and not bang. The wizard didn't really get a boost in power, just some more consistant abilities to make up for the fact of running dry. The specialist actually got powered down by comparison.
I did not notice that they do not get cantrips though...that sucks and should be changed
The Sorcerers one claim to fame was that he got more spells per day than the Wizard. Now that the Wizard has a pile of spell-likes, he doesn't even do that anymore. The Sorcerer will run dry of spells before the Wizard, and the Wizard can use a Bonded Object to spontaneously cast any spell he knows (which can be one of the hundreds of spells he could have learned).
Seriously. The Wizard got a can of awesome and the Sorcerer just got a bigger reason to PrC out.
I have to agree. Despite its failings, sorcerer has always been my favorite class. I absolutely love Pathfinder, and was hoping that the changes the class needs would be made. This just seems to fall short.
Despite the added survivability gained from the bloodline traits/abilities, this doesn't address the lack of options that has been corrected in the wizard/cleric revisions. If the new sorcerer were to use all of his spell slots for the day, none of the abilities would offset this or allow the class to progress during the adventuring day like the rest of the party. I would have like to see more abilities similar to the wizard/cleric here. The feats also seem lackluster, and do not normally extend the adventuring day.
The lack of cantrips seems to be a large oversight or a glaring mistake. Also, the sorcerer needs to have a slight increase in spells known, especially at levels where new spells are gained. More spell slots can only get you so far, and can even be pointless if there are no options for those slots. I would not be bothered by gaining spells a level behind the wizard if this was corrected. I suggest adding one spell known per spell level (having found this works well in play).
Overall, this has disappointed me. I have developed a version of sorcerer our gaming group uses, but wished to devote my confidence to the Pathfinder revisions. Now, it seems that more needs to be done to make the class viable amongst the other Pathfinder classes.
The added effects for the wizard are fundamentally multiple low level effects and a few added additions that still don't replace the 1/spell level of the specialist and still certainly don't match with the sorc in a number/power comparison at something like 12th level.
I guess I'm just the opisite(from the op). I'm actually happy to see only a few changes to Sorcerers.
I've played several, and they don't need much help. By the time they reach 7th or 8th level, many are 'howitzers on legs' (As a friend of mine one put it). All they really need are a handful of offensive spells, and they are good to go.
Oc that may just be me, as I tend to play sorcerers as roving engines of destruction.
the cantrips need added other then that i dont see anything that jumps out at me
I would like to see the ability to cast 0 levels though, and am not sure why that was left out.
It makes alot more sense for the Sorcerer to have the ability to cast Osirions as for free than the wizard, why they decided to not give them that makes no sense.
Considering what many of the bloodlines get at 20th level, namely a transformation that often negates various energy and/or crits and in many cases provided DR, i dont see them as crippled as a whole. Short term perhaps, but some of their higher level bloodline abilities are not to be sneered at. And the bonus feats are a nice advantage that also fills in quite a bit of color. While a wizard also gets bonus feats they are tied into magical use. The sorcerer as an intuitive caster is still not the arcane powerhouse that wizards are, nor are they meant to be. An intuitive grasp of magic is still not going to match the often obesessive study that wizards carry out. Also, the ability to spontaneously cast is actually a major advantage.
Personally, I love the new sorcerer and their bloodlines.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
The added effects for the wizard are fundamentally multiple low level effects and a few added additions that still don't replace the 1/spell level of the specialist and still certainly don't match with the sorc in a number/power comparison at something like 12th level.
Have you looked at the Wizard spells? They get a level-appropriate spell as a spell-like every time they get one. For example, the Evoker gets magic missile(1st) when he's casting 1st level spells, scorching ray(2nd) when his best spells are 2nd level...and and it continues like this. At 12th level, he's casting a 6th level effect (chain lightning at 6th) an at 18th level he's casting meteor swarm which is a 9th level effect.
On the odd levels, the Wizard has better spells because they have more spells levels. On even levels, they actaully cast only one spell less per spell level.
Really, the Sorcerer has been left behind.
I agree with K.
Supposedly half the games are below L10.
Even a super L20 capstone ability won't keep a PC in the class when there are so many better options for PRCing. Limited Wish and Wish like the Universalist Wizard would go a long way towards addressing that for capstone abilities.
No reason not to go Beguiler and Ultimate Magus with a Wizard and dip Binder for Persisted Shapechange at L19 lasting 24 hours which is way better than going PF Sorcerer- 20. Erudite with the Spells to Power variant works well with a Beguiler or Binder.
I was expecting something along the lines of the Beguiler or the Erudite with the Spells to Power variant.
Standard spellcasting progression. More useful known spells. More skill points. More useful class specials like No ASF in light armor. Something along the lines of a Reserve Feat like Fiery Burst so they can go all day.
Here's the thing the sorcerer used to be my favorite class before the Beguiler killed it. Paizo only needs to fix this single class for me to buy the book reflavoring isn't enough though. It should be better than the UA/SRD Variant Spellcaster IMO which can pick it's spellcasting attribute, cherry pick spells from all spell lists and have good feats at 1, 5, 10, 15 and 20 because just choosing Intelligence will get the class more skill points since it gets D6 by default now.
Considering what many of the bloodlines get at 20th level, namely a transformation that often negates various energy and/or crits and in many cases provided DR, i dont see them as crippled as a whole. Short term perhaps, but some of their higher level bloodline abilities are not to be sneered at. And the bonus feats are a nice advantage that also fills in quite a bit of color. While a wizard also gets bonus feats they are tied into magical use. The sorcerer as an intuitive caster is still not the arcane powerhouse that wizards are, nor are they meant to be. An intuitive grasp of magic is still not going to match the often obesessive study that wizards carry out.
You do know that Fortification armor is cheap at 20th level, right? And now that Wizards can wear armor without ASP by spending two feats, they can get this for a paltry sum....and laugh with their free wishes.
Otherwise, making an argument of "but this is more flavor" is not meaningful. Flavor doesn't make you more valuable as a party member.
Also, the ability to spontaneously cast is actually a major advantage.
Which is offset by the fact that the Wizard can potentially have a choice of hundreds of spells to choose from each day. So this is just a kick in the jimmy.
The added effects for the wizard are fundamentally multiple low level effects and a few added additions that still don't replace the 1/spell level of the specialist and still certainly don't match with the sorc in a number/power comparison at something like 12th level.Have you looked at the Wizard spells? They get a level-appropriate spell as a spell-like every time they get one. For example, the Evoker gets magic missile(1st) when he's casting 1st level spells, scorching ray(2nd) when his best spells are 2nd level...and and it continues like this. At 12th level, he's casting a 6th level effect (chain lightning at 6th) an at 18th level he's casting meteor swarm which is a 9th level effect.
On the odd levels, the Wizard has better spells because they have more spells levels. On even levels, they actaully cast only one spell less per spell level.
Really, the Sorcerer has been left behind.
Yes, and they aren't nearly as powerful as his spells or the sorc's because to do so at the same power would mean the wizard would need a second primary stat. The spells are weaker, they are gotten a level behind when the original specialists got them and you cannot take any spell in a given school.
Yes, and they aren't nearly as powerful as his spells or the sorc's because to do so at the same power would mean the wizard would need a second primary stat. The spells are weaker, they are gotten a level behind when the original specialists got them and you cannot take any spell in a given school.
Most of the Wizard spell-likes don't even need a save. The Diviner has zero spells as spell-likes that need a save. The Conjurer only has one. Most are some mix of the two.
And why should the Sorcerer care that the Wizard's extra spell is not as powerful as it could be? The Sorcerer's one claim to fame is already meaningless because the Wizard gets spells earlier as well as having nearly as many.
Considering what many of the bloodlines get at 20th level, namely a transformation that often negates various energy and/or crits and in many cases provided DR, i dont see them as crippled as a whole. Short term perhaps, but some of their higher level bloodline abilities are not to be sneered at. And the bonus feats are a nice advantage that also fills in quite a bit of color. While a wizard also gets bonus feats they are tied into magical use. The sorcerer as an intuitive caster is still not the arcane powerhouse that wizards are, nor are they meant to be. An intuitive grasp of magic is still not going to match the often obesessive study that wizards carry out.You do know that Fortification armor is cheap at 20th level, right? And now that Wizards can wear armor without ASP by spending two feats, they can get this for a paltry sum....and laugh with their free wishes.
Otherwise, making an argument of "but this is more flavor" is not meaningful. Flavor doesn't make you more valuable as a party member.
Which is offset by the fact that the Wizard can potentially have a choice of hundreds of spells to choose from each day. So this is just a kick in the jimmy.
Also, the ability to spontaneously cast is actually a major advantage.
Wish as a class ability is dubious in its usefulness. Considering a good DM is likely going to screw the wizard insane enough to make use of this ability regularly.
As for fortification ability, does no good if you are not wearing it. Innate ability trumps a tool that does the same thing.
As for flavor versus valuable, seen a person play an expert npc class and be more productive than a wizard for party survival.
As for wizards number of spells, take away the spell book and you limit him quite a bit, even with school abilities and bonded item (which can also rather easily be taken away with a simple disarm maneuver). The sorcerer keeps access to all of his spells without the need for a spell book.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
Wish as a class ability is dubious in its usefulness. Considering a good DM is likely going to screw the wizard insane enough to make use of this ability regularly.
As for flavor versus valuable, seen a person play an expert npc class and be more productive than a wizard for party survival.
As for wizards number of spells, take away the spell book and you limit him quite a bit, even with school abilities and bonded item (which can also rather easily be taken away with a simple disarm maneuver). The sorcerer keeps access to all of...
I don't know what kind of game you are playing in where just using Wish and Limited Wish as a Spell Like Ability to duplicate spells will have a DM mess you over since that is 100% safe according to the rules.
Regarding your second point probably a skilled player playing a skill monkey using UMD and Diplomacy (Not on the sorcerer list) and other skills to balance out the party.
In most games DMs do not steal wizard's spell books routinely just like most DMs do not pick Cleric or Druid's daily spells on a routine basis or deny them spells on a routine basis. Quite sure the thieves in those games target other player's gear also.
Wish as a class ability is dubious in its usefulness. Considering a good DM is likely going to screw the wizard insane enough to make use of this ability regularly.As for fortification ability, does no good if you are not wearing it. Innate ability trumps a tool that does the same thing.
As for flavor versus valuable, seen a person play an expert npc class and be more productive than a wizard for party survival.
As for wizards number of spells, take away the spell book and you limit him quite a bit, even with school abilities and bonded item (which can also rather easily be taken away with a simple disarm maneuver). The sorcerer keeps access to all of...
So your argument is "if your DM goes out of his way to make Wizard abilities bad or the player is incompetent, then the Sorcerer is better."
Seriously?
Wish as a class ability is dubious in its usefulness. Considering a good DM is likely going to screw the wizard insane enough to make use of this ability regularly.As for fortification ability, does no good if you are not wearing it. Innate ability trumps a tool that does the same thing.
As for flavor versus valuable, seen a person play an expert npc class and be more productive than a wizard for party survival.
As for wizards number of spells, take away the spell book and you limit him quite a bit, even with school abilities and bonded item (which can also rather easily be taken away with a simple disarm maneuver). The sorcerer keeps access to all of...
So your argument is "if your DM goes out of his way to make Wizard abilities bad or the player is incompetent, then the Sorcerer is better."
Seriously?
I never said go out of the way. Not tha hard to mangle a Wish spell. And as I said, the advantages of the sorcerer are considerable especially now. How well any class contributes to a party depends on the player as much is not more than the class itself. Two players can both being playing wizards of the same level and one could be extremely useful to the party while the other is just a drain on the party resources. This applies to any class. There is only so much handholding that can be done through a class to make the player and thus character a conrtibution to the party.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
The added effects for the wizard are fundamentally multiple low level effects and a few added additions that still don't replace the 1/spell level of the specialist and still certainly don't match with the sorc in a number/power comparison at something like 12th level.Have you looked at the Wizard spells? They get a level-appropriate spell as a spell-like every time they get one. For example, the Evoker gets magic missile(1st) when he's casting 1st level spells, scorching ray(2nd) when his best spells are 2nd level...and and it continues like this. At 12th level, he's casting a 6th level effect (chain lightning at 6th) an at 18th level he's casting meteor swarm which is a 9th level effect.
On the odd levels, the Wizard has better spells because they have more spells levels. On even levels, they actaully cast only one spell less per spell level.
Really, the Sorcerer has been left behind.
Okay I'll grant that, but all of the school powers (with only a few exceptions) have a limited number of uses per day. usually about 1-3. The only school powers that don't have that limitation are the capstone powers, and the first level powers.
Most of the bloodline powers affect changes on the sorcerer. while I do think it'd be better if the first level power wasn't a hand-to-hand combat ability. I still think they are strong class abilities.
Ditto on sorcerers needing unlimited cantrips.
Also, each 1st-level bloodline ability needs to be something that can be used both at will and multiple times on the same target. It would be really lame for a sorcerer low on spells to get only one use his bloodline power in a solo encounter before having to bust out a crossbow. (Infernal bloodline corrupting touch, I'm looking at you.)
Yes...this I agree with.
Okay I'll grant that, but all of the school powers (with only a few exceptions) have a limited number of uses per day. usually about 1-3. The only school powers that don't have that limitation are the capstone powers, and the first level powers.Most of the bloodline powers affect changes on the sorcerer. while I do think it'd be better if the first level power wasn't a hand-to-hand combat ability. I still think they are strong class abilities.
Check out the Sorcerer Bloodline abilities. Most of them can only be used once a day. The ones that aren't are less powerful versions of equipment or spells you can own or cast.
I'll take the school powers.
Okay I'll grant that, but all of the school powers (with only a few exceptions) have a limited number of uses per day. usually about 1-3. The only school powers that don't have that limitation are the capstone powers, and the first level powers.Most of the bloodline powers affect changes on the sorcerer. while I do think it'd be better if the first level power wasn't a hand-to-hand combat ability. I still think they are strong class abilities.
Check out the Sorcerer Bloodline abilities. Most of them can only be used once a day. The ones that aren't are less powerful versions of equipment or spells you can own or cast.
I'll take the school powers.
Look again. out of all of the bloodline traits, only Destined has three per day abilities. most of the others only has 1 or 2 per day abilities (and yes I'm counting the limited by round use as a per day ability).
the cantrips jason...would it be 4? I'm guessing it is
Noticed the class still doesn't get Diplomacy despite being a Charisma based class. Actually another yard stick of how useless the other class specials are in game that the PF sorcerer class doesn't pick up a skill (UMD) that doesn't cost PC resources to use effectively in game. UMD is nice but to really use the skill in any but a limited form costs the PC magical resources.
Diplomacy just doesn't fit the idea of sorcerers. They're innately magical beings... not social butterflies. To give it to them just because its a CHA based skill and sorcerer is a CHA based class is rather silly. By that logic, Perception and Survival should be cleric skills and Ride should be a rogue skill. Sorcerers who want to pick up Diplomacy should pick up a level in a complementary class that features it, such as bard or maybe rogue.
Use Magic Device, on the other hand, is a skill that was originally denied to sorcerers in the original D&D 3.0 release... which made no sense since they were charisma-based spellcasters with an innate control of magic. It may not seem like much to some people, but the skill fits with what the sorcerer class is.
Why the hell is the sorcerer expected to be in melee? So many of these bloodline abilities involve claws or melee touch attacks, which is the last place a sorcerer wants to be.
And wow, most of the abilities are... bad. The feats are also largely bad, with the exception of a tiny handful, like Improved Initiative.
Quicken spell in particular is odd, since sorcerer's explicitly can't use it, and there isn't a pathfinder version of the feat to replace that rubbish.
Really, this reads like a thin coating of really, really generic flavor pasted over the flaws of the class in hopes you haven't noticed them in the last 9 years.
Sorcerers (and wizards, too) are often forced into melee combat when foes engage them... or when they desire to cast spells that have a touch range. It happens.
Director of Games
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I was hoping not to have to make this sort of post so early on after the release, but here we are.
The tone in this and other threads has to come to an end. I would appreciate a kind and civil discourse when discussing these rules. Far too many of you seem to be making strong claims without even having remotely playtested these rules. I ask that you try them out and see where they take you. I am not saying I do not want your speculation, but please, remember that some of these are brand new, and more than likely subject to change.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Good about the cantrips...so that's not an issue at least.
Not agreeing that this is a bad change, I did indeed see the quicken spell on the feats list.
What gives with that?
This thread should have been called "Sorcerers ,Still Redundant".Honestly i don't see why a spontaneous casting Wizard is even needed.They cast the same spells.All of the same spells.If you need some wierd unexplained source of your magic power houserule it in and quit whining.Just call your Wizard a Sorceror.Or whatever.
The Sorceror is a waste of page count.
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Director of Games
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This thread should have been called "Sorcerers ,Still Redundant".Honestly i don't see why a spontaneous casting Wizard is even needed.They cast the same spells.All of the same spells.If you need some wierd unexplained source of your magic power houserule it in and quit whining.Just call your Wizard a Sorceror.Or whatever.
The Sorceror is a waste of page count.
The Sorcerer is not leaving the game. Nor are any of the other classes.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
I want to say nice job jason and crew. this will be playtested ya just cant make some folks happy
good call.
I will give it a play and see what it's like.
Second Seeker's thanks, Jason. This is shaping up to be a superior game in my estimation. 3rd and 3.5 brought me back to D&D and this game is likely to keep me playing (nevermind the name change). My groups as a whole is very excited about this.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
So many of these bloodline abilities involve claws or melee touch attacks...Which brings up a question that's relevant to sorcerer playtests: for bloodlines that grant claws, how many claws attacks can the sorcerer make per round? Just one, or one with each hand?
I say they could but thats TWF just like punching someone with each hand.
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Director of Games
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I say they could but thats TWF just like punching someone with each hand.So many of these bloodline abilities involve claws or melee touch attacks...Which brings up a question that's relevant to sorcerer playtests: for bloodlines that grant claws, how many claws attacks can the sorcerer make per round? Just one, or one with each hand?
Correct.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
So many of these bloodline abilities involve claws or melee touch attacks...Which brings up a question that's relevant to sorcerer playtests: for bloodlines that grant claws, how many claws attacks can the sorcerer make per round? Just one, or one with each hand?
Unless it directly states otherwise, my assumption is he makes one attack per round. If he takes two weapon fighting then he comes equiped with his own light off-hand weapon and the feat operates normally.
-Weylin Stormcrowe