Hey there. Days after Pathfinder RPG was announced, it inspired me to do something I hadn't done since getting out of the Army in 2003. Play Dungeons and Dragons. There isn't a group handy to play with where I live, so I set up an IM game, which plays on Fridays. Last Friday was our first test run.
Part of the deal with my party is that they have to write up weekly evaluations of the sessions. Part of this is to help me DM better, since I've nearly always a player and still wish I was. But the other part was to take part in this mass playtest of the Pathfinder game system.
Initial Game Request Thread
Character Thread and Game Log
Complete Feedback Thread
I'm going to be periodically posting the Playtest relevant feedback that I get on this thread, but I figured I'd provide those interested with links to the game.
Alright. My analysis of the game.
First, let's start with the Pathfinder stuff.
Races. Every player race got another +2 bonus to an ability score. I agree with this. It supports a wider range of 'archetypes' for the races, rather than shoehorning them into a singular path.
However, I disagree with where some of those races got their ability score.
Dwarves I can get behind. They have +2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha. However, I would have went with +2 Str/Con and -2 Dex. I don't find a dwarf's gruffness to be adequately represented by a Cha penalty. However, dwarves are the race I probably have the least problem with. Ironic since I don't have a single dwarf in the party.
Half-orcs. Once again, we've gotten a 9/10 orc. Although this time, it is probably more of a 4/5 orc. +2 Str, +2 Wis, -2 Int. I'm good with +2 Str. I'm good with -2 Int. I dislike the +2 Wis. Unless orcs now sport a Wisdom bonus, this is not only ridiculous but out of type. When have orcs or half-orcs (other than in WarCraft) been particularly wise or perceptive? And again, nothing human is in the entire race.
Why not take a page from the human play book and give half-orcs a +2 bonus to an ability score of their choice in place of +2 Wisdom? They could even apply it to Int, effectively canceling their penalty if they wanted to show that half orcs are supposed to be smarter than full blood orcs.
Half-elves are pretty good. They blend some human and some elven traits. They are more playable than either the 3.0 or 3.5 version.
Gnomes. +2 Cha? Why? No. +2 Int, if anything. The special stuff is all appropriate.
Halflings. I'll be up front, halflings are vermin. There is no reason other than game balance to try and make such an obviously inferior race equal to others. Halflings are the humanoid kobold. Give them -4 Str, -2 Con and -8 Wisdom. That said, I can't believe they have a +2 Int. Halflings are lovable, to a certain extent, they have a certain charm...they would be my candidates for the +2 Cha. Not the underestimated super geniuses. And I wouldn't give them the slow speed. They've always been pick pockets and nimble...why not a proper movement rate to go along with it? The other special qualities I think I agree with, although I think their keen sense of smell would make more sense than a keen sense of hearing.
Humans are pretty basic. The favored class rules actually makes this ability valuable, and the weapon proficiency is good, although I can see this leading to the disuse of longswords in favor of bastard swords, greatswords in favor of fullblades, etc etc. They should have been able to treat an exotic weapon as martial or gain proficiency in a non-exotic weapon. Which still leads to human paladins abandoning longswords in droves. Hmm. Maybe a choice between skill and proficiency? Skill Focus (something) vs Weapon Proficiency (something)? At least it would make more sense than all bakers being proficient in the bastard sword or dire flail.
Elves...well, I can see why they would get +2 Int (the 'stereotypical elven wizard'), but anyone who has seen my paragon elves or primordial elves knows that I favor Wisdom as their secondary ability score. Fits in with what I consider a more compelling stereotype, that of the elven ranger. But the elven race is pretty solid regardless. It isn't the travesty that +2 Wis half-orcs or +2 Int halflings is.
The new classes I am much less mixed feeling about. Nearly every change I support. Chief is the cantrips at will. The bonus powers for specialized and universal wizards, the better domain powers...this is all great. We'll see if the fighter changes play out nicely, but at least the dead level problem has been fixed. And making sneak attack apply to more creature types is probably a needed change.
The best change is that of specialist wizards. No longer does choosing Enchantment as your prohibited school make you forever incapable of charming a captured enemy for information. Instead, it nukes your ability to make use of your specialist powers for the day. Which means the specialist wizard has access to all schools of magic, but not convenient (and probably not combat) access.
One thing I really wish had been taken into account. Trapfinding should have been made a bonus feat that rogues get for free, like Rangers and Track. The nonsense of every adventuring party needing a rogue when every other class has at least one or two others that can fulfill its party role has gotten quite old enough.
The skill folding was inevitable, but I would have placed Sense Motive under Perception, not Deception. I realize the concept “you can't b!%%~!*~ a b$!!~#@%ter”, but it seems odd that a paladin needs to take Deception to spot demonic lies, or a monk to realize the men surrounding him are seeking to test his Bruce Lee fiber.
And one skill set that didn't get folded, but might as well...Diplomacy and Intimidate = Persuasion.
The Fly skill is interesting. I assume it replaces maneuverability to an extent, but why would a Sor/Wiz have it as class skill? Just because they can fly via magic?
Weird. For some reason, this thread isn't actually showing up. But I can reply to it. Maybe. Is there a reason for this? I don't want to take a bunch of time to type something up that will get eaten.I can see it...
Guess it just took some time. I've replaced that post with game analysis anyways.
Not sure if Kain cares either way, but I am going to start by talking about the process by which I decided to create my character.
My initial decision when the game was first announced was to play a half-orc. I think they are very awesome conceptually, but they always manage to fall flat mechanically. Unfortunately, nothing really changed with Pathfinder's version. They still seemed more like 9/10 orcs than half-orcs, with the last 1/10th being made of suck and lame. Intelligence penalties are always a turn-off with race selection, and I don't really think a half-orc needs one either; lacking the bonus skill of humans is more than enough to make them "dumber" while not making them an unattractive choice.
Eventually I learned other members of the game were going for martial classes, so I fell back to my secondary choice; wizard. Looking over the different choices for the specialists and the generalist, I eventually decided to go with the evoker. Mostly I just like playing engines of mass destruction, but I was also looking ahead; 20th level evokers get the ability to bypass energy resistances and immunities, which is a highly attractive ability in a game where high level monsters seem to have more immunities than hit dice.
Having decided on my class, I then looked over the racial options again, and quickly determined that the elf, half-elf, and human were the only viable options. More than the Int bonus (or potential Int bonus in the case of the half-elf and human), was the fact that sticking to one's favored class gave an additional hit point each level. I don't consider myself a power gamer, but I have a hard time saying no to such a tangible benefit. Out of my three options I settled on the elf, seeing a further benefit with their bonus to overcome spell resistance. While I like the idea of the races having strong built-in advantages to playing towards type, I find that awarding bonus hit points for doing so is just going too far, and instead seems to be a punishment for not sticking with your favored class rather than a reward for doing so; the racial abilities are enough to want to play archetypal roles.
I statted my elf evoker out, named him Artrarien Galanodel (ripped straight from the Player's Handbook), gave him history, and began to wonder how he would act. Character creation completed.
The combat itself was a welcome change from the last time I played a wizard, since my evoker abilities let me blast away at will with rays of minor damage without worrying about running out of spells. I see myself using these often in the future, and saving my spellslots for utility spells and some high-damage effects for special occasions. I think I'll take Point Blank Shot as well to make them more useful.
It was a fun game. I really approve of Paizo's decision to give spellcasters at-will abilities at first level, because even if the damage is minor firing off a energy burst is about a thousand times cooler then piddling around with maces and crossbows and such. And it makes for cool flavor descriptions.
I also approve of Paizo's change to the way favored classes work. I've always felt that the XP penalty was lame and that it would be better to give difference PC races specific bonuses for going into their respective race's iconic roles.
That said, its a tad generic, and its something that a lot of people will lose out on. Take me for example! Gnome cleric. Not getting anything. I think it would be better to start giving races more then one favored class. Ranger fits the elven archetype just as well as wizard does. Half-orcs could easily be fighters or barbarians iconically, dwarves (especially in light of their new wisdom bonuses) take well to being clerics and between that, their new charisma bonus and knowing Sylvan I'd say gnomes fit perfectly as either sorcerors or druids. Also I like the idea of halfling monks. Just saying.
The new turning healing thing, what even needs to be said? Kind of a low amount healed, but between the number of turning efforts per day and the range its pretty clearly an out of combat thing anyway, unless you want to heal the people you're fighting at the moment, and it stops the actual healing spells from becoming obsolete.
Also if I'm reading the changes to how turning resistance works it now also pulls the teeth of spells that use positive energy to hurt undead, examples of which do not immediately spring to mind.
Kain, pretty sure you'll agree now that you've had time to review the rules, but I'd say allowing Deadly Aim to work with the Air domain first level power is kosher. Its a ranged touch attack and those are valid candidates for things like Weapon Focus and Precise Shot already. It even makes perfect sense flavor-wise.
Running a Fighter, I'm kind of glad that they expanded on the Fighter class in the Paizo version of the game, allowing Fighters to pull more weight in combat (moreso than usual). The fact that Fighters get a feat every level (either Naturally or from the class progression itself) make each level of Fighter worth while. The bonuses gained from using certain weapons and armor not only make stereotypical fighters more attractive, but they also help out Fighters of all spectrums, such as spear fighters, Dex Fighters, Two-Weapon Fighters, Bow Fighters, Etc.
However, it seems like Humans have a lot of bonuses, but not a lot of penalties. While Humans are more of an 'average' race, it seems like a player will ALWAYS choose their first class as their favored class and will ALWAYS choose a strane, exotic weapon as a proficiency as their free proficiency. Most noteably would be my Fighter who picked up Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword). For free. So any human character could, legally, pick up that same feat. For free. Basically, the ability promotes Bastard Sword wielding humans all over the place. That plus the free skill and free feat make humans VERY attractive races to play, almost to no failing.
I too shall begin with some general thoughts on the system changes.
Races; I agree with switching of the Gnome and Halfling mental stat boosts. Half-orcs should get either the variable second score like humans, or a bonus feat. Should get a penalty to Charisma instead of Intelligence. Having one core race naturally more stupid than the others is a bad precedent, and sets them even further apart from their human half. Alternatively, drop them entirely and make Orcs core. Half-elves are actually good now! Depending on the Elf archetype you're going for, I could see them having any of the mental stats boosted. Strength or Wisdom both work for Dwarves.
Regarding skills; this is one of the very few 4e/Saga changes that I agree with. I like how they did most of it, but disagree in a few specific cases. Fly needs to go, or only be available to things with natural flight. Remove Deception. Fold Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Intimidate into a new Persuade skill. Sense Motive goes into Perception. Take Jump out of Acrobatics, and put Escape Artist into it. Merge Jump, Climb, Swim, and Ride into a new Athletics skill. Unsure about merging Concentration and Spellcraft. I only wish I could justify merging some Knowledges as long as we're streamlining. Oh, and Theft is a lousy name.
Feats. Oh, God, how I wish they'd gotten rid of those +2/+2 feats, the useless pieces of crap that they are. Have them make the affected skills permanently class, or give a bigger bonus if they're already class. The new combat feats look fun, might actually let Fighters keep up with other classes.
Speaking of Fighters. There really hasn't been enough time into the game to let me judge the balance of the classes yet, especially as there's pretty much no difference with mine. I approve of the changes to Turning, so it actually fits with the rest of d20 now. Giving casters things they can do at will is a good, solid move, that shouldn't prove overpowering; not like running out of steam hampers them much anyway.
Session 2
I learned a great deal in this session, lessons that I will carry with me for a lifetime.
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Leveling up in Pathfinder doesn't seem to be any easier or harder than leveling up in D&D. The way skill points work makes that part a great deal easier, but there were a number of little details concerning my wizard's class abilities that balanced out what simplicity there was. With 2nd level, I can already see a definitive improvement in Art's abilities. His BAB went up, which means hitting things more often, his at will rays have a point of damage added to them, he has more spells of course, and now he has magic missile as an SLA 1/day. Cannot wait for 3rd level when I get to start whipping out the bigger spells, and get a hold of the awesome Deadly Shot feat, which is an incredible feat to use in conjunction with ranged touch attacks.
Oh, that reminds me. The changes to the skill point system are easily my favorite thing about Pathfinder. Its golden. Doing it point by point is so damned tedious, this is a hundred times more streamlined.
Not really a whole lot to say on the mechanics from my point of view; Fighter isn't really any different from SRD at this point, with the feats I've chosen. I love being able to take Diplomacy, though. Half-elf is finally good for something! Or, well, it was before they switched back to the rank system and made the awesome racial feature into a crappy feat instead...