I still use 3.0 ones fixes a lot of that
Last until after the next encounter?
Enter teleport-minion-in-there-and-then-mop-the-floor-with-them-after-their-spell s-have-gone-out.
What I was getting at was 3.5 made it a headache really. case in point
Bull’s Strength went from and hour to a minuet alot of spells where done this way .that is what makes em such a pain.yours seems to nerf times just as bad but is easier on the book keeping. all in all I dont care much for it.
never been an issue for me but I understand were you are comeing from
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As many of you will agree, keeping track of spell durations can become a chore, especially at higher levels. Also if fully buffed party A gets the jump on unprepared party B, it's mostly game over, giving birth to tactics like Scry & Fry.
What do y'all think of this solution:
1. Spell durations are measured in encounters (I know, I know, that's 4E, but bear with me).
Spells that in 3.5 have a duration of
1 hr/lvl are on for the whole day;
10 min/lvl can be cast at any time and will last until the end of the first encounter you face that day. So a Druid who knows a tough fight lies behind the next door, can cast Barkskin before entering the room, but not Animal Growth. You can also cast a 10 min/lvl buff quickened during an encounter, in which case it lasts until the end of the next encounter (so two encounters total).
1 min/lvl cannot be cast before an encounter. Instead, you can cast it quickened during combat. It lasts until the end of the current encounter.
1 r/lvl cannot be cast before an encounter, nor can it be cast quickened. It lasts until the end of the current encounter.
Exceptions might be needed, like for the invisibility spells. It doesn't make much sense to not be able to cast them outside of battle. ;P
To my mind these modifications provide more player options during combat ("shall I cast Bull's Strength, Aid, Bless or True Seeing as a quickened buff this round?"). At the same time it lessens bookkeeping (no more "when did I cast Haste again? Oh damn, then it ended two rounds ago.") and makes "getting the jump" less important.
Thoughts?
In my campaign we use the "1 hr/lvl = all day" rule and it has greatly simplified bookkeeping. We also assume that any buff cast in combat lasts until the end of the battle. Spells like Mage Armor, if cast on self, last all day as well.
Last until after the next encounter?
Enter teleport-minion-in-there-and-then-mop-the-floor-with-them-after-their-spell s-have-gone-out.
Good point. It does assume quite some advantages for whoever teleported the minion in, like perfect knowledge of the PCs whereabouts and active spells.
Even quite shoddy knowledge will do. "Do they have spellcastars?" If yes: Send in the blind kobold we have lying around from the last exploit, let them butcher it to take care of any long buffs they might have cast, and go in to clean up a second later. You don't even have to scry. Just put him into your anteroom. Hear him end his miserable life in a damp squeak, wait 10 seconds, and go out and rip them apart.
Or peak at them from behind one of those paintings.
We have played multiple high level camps and this has never been a problem as long as your players are honest and do there own paper work
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I was thinking of the following as a possible solution to these issues:
Duration= 1 Round of Usage/Caster Level. ((or Maybe 2 RoU/Lvl??))
The idea here, is that (buff/defense) spells can be cast early in the day and then used as needed. Say a 5th level caster casts Bull's Strength on the party fighter as the adventuring day begins. As they aproach the dungeon, they are ambushed by a bunch of kobolds. The fighter doesn't bother using up his Bull's Strength on these pesks, as his normal strength is enough to deal with them. Later, facing an animated kettle, he spends 2 rounds of the spell, because the thing's hardness needed some extra oomph. Then, they find a locked door, and, lacking a rogue, he decides to use up another round's worth to bash the door open. He uses the last 2 rounds in another tough fight past that door.
Advantage: Use as you want, and don't worry about "did we spend three minutes searching that room or five?"
Disadvantage: Bookeeping. Could easily be solved with "Spellcards" or Poker Chips, or something else, but multiple buffs/defense spells might get messy.
Also, this allows all of those spellcasting villains to cast their buffs and defensive spells early in the day, so the old buff and teleport gag won't be as effective, in that they will always be ready for the PCs to crash their party.
Or peak at them from behind one of those paintings.
Peak? What the hell was I thinking?
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This is an interesting idea, but it doesn't sit well with me in the realism department. Being able to switch Bull Strength on and off at will seems weird... either you're stronger or you're not. And yeah, then there is the bookkeeping. One of my players had Boots of Haste, which does what you propose, and he was always forgetting to tick off uses. If all buffs worked like that, it would become a nightmare.
Re: "Realism"- I see it more as "you've been given X doses of magical strength that you can use as you choose" in this version. Also, as you pointed out, there is a precidence for it in the game already with various other effects. I do think it solves some of the problems mentioned above, such as having to keep track of time between encounters and dealing with the "catch him with his buffs down" buff and 'port syndrome or wait till his buffs run out then come after him issues that really screw up some high level encounters.
The bookeeping and "convenient" forgetfulness are problems. I think a checkoff (wet/dry erase?) set off cards or some kind of chits/chips you hand in each round you use the bonus could help with this aspect... but if that's necessary, is it really worth the cost for the benefits gained?
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Thanks for your comments so far. I'm still curious though: what do you think about allowing buffs with a duration of 1 minute/lvl or more to be cast as quickened spells? Just to make sure: you don't need the Feat, nor a higher spell slot.
This makes unprepared spellcasters stronger, since they can catch up on their defenses while still doing other stuff. To my mind, that's a good thing. It gets rid of the extremes (the fully buffed 9th level cleric vs the completely unprepared one) and makes it less mandatory for everyone to walk around fully buffed.
It would be simpler to change their Casting Time than to say they were quickened, and more accurate. Either change them to free actions, immediate actions, or swift actions (the better choice, since it limits it to 1 per round and is what happens to a spell when it is quickened.) This eliminates the need to say "you don't need the Feat, nor a higher spell slot."
This solution helps an unprepared spellcaster to get off one buff/defensive spell as soon as they can act, and one a round thereafter, but still does not address the issue of timekeeping (which, in my opinion, is just as tricky and tedious as bookeeping.)
Although, I have rarely had the problems with buffing and durations in the campaigns I play. Mostly, because we play low-magic campaigns and usually never exceed 10th level. However, after reading this thread and some of the primers of 4th ed, I can see many games facing this off-balancing question.
Of the examples and suggestions above, I like the idea of quick buffs. Especially, catagorized into swift/move/standard actions. IDK if I really care to change the durations of the spells. Even in 3.5ed I noticed a number of useful OUT-OF-COMBAT spells have been relegated to COMBAT-ONLY spells (such as invisibility). I think shortening buff spells to encounter only severly limits the power of magic.
Perhaps another way to handle the problem of book keeping and out of balance buffs would be to limit the number of "Buff" spells or for that matter spells in general, a character can have running at the same time. This would also limit the need for "Dispelling wars" to occur, moderate the spell power of the characters, and maintain the core 3.5 rules intact.
Perhaps the limit of spells could be tied to the level of the caster(s) or the recipient of the spell. I personally prefer the caster level limit. As it would make sense he or she could control a limited number of spells or spell levels of spells at one time. Say, your Ability modifier + 1/ per 3 levels of the caster in spell levels. For example, a 9th level Cleric with a 18 Wisdom could only control 8 levels worth the spells.
This option would still allow multiple casters to cast many buff spells on the same recipient. If you want to avoid this then having each character be limited by either an ability score or level or combination of both in either number of spells or spell levels may be a better idea. Perhaps the magic is anchored to the characters aura or limited by his or her racial make-up or whatever!
In this case, you could use the same formula as above. However, the character receiving the buffs would be limited to 8 spells levels in total. Regardless of the number of casters buffing him or her.
Anyway, just an idea. I'm intrigued by this thread and curious to see what the community thinks of the great ideas presented in this thread so far.