Thoughts on Two-Weapon Fighting / Sword & Board


Skills & Feats


(Originally posted this in the wrong area, whoops. Fixed it!)

I have been looking over the two-weapon fighting feats, and would like to suggest a couple of things. TWF is an incredible feat-sink in 3.5, with little benefit for anyone whose not a rogue, and Pathfinder doesn't seem to do anything to address that. I think the following changes/additions would make Two-Weapon fighters and sword-and-board users a bit more appealing:

1. Add a feat that allows a hit with both weapons as an attack action in conjunction with Spring Attack and/or similar feats (like the Tempest class feature from CA, but just available as a feat).

2. Two-Weapon Rend is a nice feat, but I think the requirements are a bit steep. I would remove the requirement of the new "Weapon Swap" feat at least - that feat is neat stylistically and handy if you are stuck with only one weapon but otherwise not part of a good two weapon build (which will usually involve using either a double weapon or two of the same or similar light weapons). Maybe reduce the damage die as a trade-off? Also, the text needs clarification as to how many times it functions per round.

3. Remove the TWF and Dex. requirements from the Shield related feats. This gives "tank" characters who rely on heavy armor much better options as they don't have to waste Ability points on Dex, which they really don't need to have higher than 13 otherwise.

Comments/feedback/complaints?


I don't like the two-weapon system of 3.5 I think it's too powerfull with sneak attack and too weak with everything else, so I houseruled a bit:

I treat two-weapon fighting (almost) like two-handed fighting with double weapons.

This means the two-weapon fighting feat becomes:
- an exotic weapon proficiency "dual-wield weapon X and weapon Y" where you have to choose X and Y. If you are not proficient with one of the weapons you still don't know how to use that weapon alone, so the untrained penalty still applies if you use weapon X without weapon Y.
- you don't gain additional attacks from the feat
- you still get the -x to attack (-2 with 2 light weapons, -5 with one light and one medium weapon)
- instead you gain the base damage from both weapons + the bonus from one of the weapons (your choice) at every attack
- you gain 1.5 str bonus to damage as with twohanded weapons

an example to make it easier:
-----------------------------
you are wielding a flaming longsword and a frost shortsword:
3 attacks per round: +13/+8/+3
-5 from wielding a medium weapon in one of the hands (other hand has to be small, no exception)
Strength modifier is +3
longsword: 1d8 + 1 fire dmg
shortsword: 1d6 + 2 cold dmg

1st attack:
choose your "leading weapon": longsword + 1 fire
attack bonus +13 +1(enh) +3(str) -5(dual-wield) = 12
damage 1d8 + 1d6 +1(fire) +4(str*1.5)

2nd attack:
choose your "leading weapon": shortsword + 2 cold
attack bonus +8 +2(enh) +3(str) -5(dual-wield) = 8
damage 1d8 + 1d6 +2(cold) +4(str*1.5)

3rd attack:
choose your "leading weapon": shortsword + 2 cold
attack bonus +3 +2(enh) +3(str) -5(dual-wield) = 3
damage 1d8 + 1d6 +2(cold) +4(str*1.5)
-----------------------------
This way choosing between two-handed or two-weapon should be almost strictly identical (you get slightly more damage but slightly less attack bonus)

Improved and Greater two-weapon fighting is now useless thus disappears.
Two-Weapon Rend also disappears since there is no justification for it any more.

Double weapons aren't treated like 1dX/1dX any more, they all become 2dX now and considered stricly identical to dual-wielding.

Two-weapon Defense already applies to double weapons and can apply the same way to dual wield, you get a shield bonus and that's it.

So what do you think about this? I'd love to see a total rewrite of two-weapon fighting rules in Pathfinder to make two-weapon fighting viable.


When I first started DMing 3.0, I misintrepreted Two Weapon Fighting as that it provides an off-hand attack during a standard action. It didn't seem overpowered, and with Spring Attack was very effective. As a result, my group still plays that way, even though we all know the feat now.

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