In a small way, I kinda understand Nick and his epic delays, for I'm delayed by close to a year with illos commission and believe me, I'm not fooling around and its in my best interest to fulfill these commissions.
Sometimes life just does not let you move on with the "hobby" and I'm sure this goes for 98% of us, Family and dayjob comes before the hobby, even when the hobby is as important as this.
The one thing I don't agree with this situation is Nick's long absences... A constant communication is extremely important, even if its to repeat the same things over and over... Well, that's what I think...
Anyways, I just hope tha RC does not take another year to arrive
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Sometimes life just does not let you move on with the "hobby" and I'm sure this goes for 98% of us, Family and dayjob comes before the hobby, even when the hobby is as important as this.
I would agree with this, but the moment one starts taking money (even for a "hobby"), then one has elevated that "hobby" above one's commitment to friends and family. And if one cannot make such a commitment, because it does take time away from these important things, then that person should not be accepting the money in the first place...
Of course, that is just this elf's opinion...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
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Aubrey the problem is that he took preorders on some of those other books. IMHO if he took preorders then it is on him to get them out as fast as possible. I get you disagree and thats fine. I am just saying thats how I feel. He made a promise by taking their money and should do what he can to deliver. Luckly I only preorder RC at the time i said i wouldn't preorder more till RC was out. I am glad I did that now.
I would agree with this, but the moment one starts taking money (even for a "hobby"), then one has elevated that "hobby" above one's commitment to friends and family.
That's most true too! I was thinking on non-contractual commissions, which in a way are a bit more "hobby-like". Of course if you take people's money, then you have a huge commitment there , just as important as family and dayjob.
My point here is that if you get into this kind of problems, the most important thing is not to ignore them. In my case (which is almost as bad as Nick's), I try to keep mailing them and let them know the schedules as often as possible without having the to contact me. So far, it has worked fine, but still is a situation one must avoid at all costs.
So, all in all, no justification in such delays, but "damage control" must be REAL GOOD if you want to keep it up.
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Aubrey the problem is that he took preorders on some of those other books. IMHO if he took preorders then it is on him to get them out as fast as possible. I get you disagree and thats fine. I am just saying thats how I feel. He made a promise by taking their money and should do what he can to deliver. Luckly I only preorder RC at the time i said i wouldn't preorder more till RC was out. I am glad I did that now.
Yeah, and if I had laid out money I'm sure I would be feeling differently. I can't remember why I didn't at the time (it was a long time ago). Breaking a promise isn't good but taking money and failing to deliver for two years is poor, I totally agree (on the plus side, interest rates are so low the opportunity cost isn't that high - well, OK, I know it's not much of a plus). On the other hand, it is moving. More broadly, Nick never learnt the basic lesson in business - under-promise, so that when you achieve only mediocre performance you look like a star. Sadly, he did the opposite.
I'm just not excited about it anymore...
Sadly, the same goes for me and I shelled out the pre-order money. But after waiting this long...I'm kinda over it. That's why I asked for a refund and got no response. None. Not even, "Sorry, we've already spent your money so you're in whether you want to be or not!" At least some type of response would have been something.
Breaking a promise isn't good but taking money and failing to deliver for two years is poor [...] Nick never learnt the basic lesson in business - under-promise, so that when you achieve only mediocre performance you look like a star. Sadly, he did the opposite.
Exactly my thoughts.
I'm just not excited about it anymore...Sadly, the same goes for me and I shelled out the pre-order money. But after waiting this long...I'm kinda over it. That's why I asked for a refund and got no response. None. Not even, "Sorry, we've already spent your money so you're in whether you want to be or not!" At least some type of response would have been something.
Finances have been a little tight for me lately, and I've thought several times of asking for a refund for both of the Sinister books I preordered, but your experience is sort of what I predicted would happen, so I never bothered. I'm sure when the books eventually come out I'll be glad I got them, but I'm not waiting in line to preorder the next one.
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The latest from Nick over at Sinister.
Hi Everyone!
Again, I apologize for the delays. I am going to refund preorders for Endzeigeist, Abzeranzorax, and anyone else who wants them refunded. Just shoot me an email: nflogue@hotmail.com
I have also disabled the ability to pre-order any products.
Tim Hitchcock (of Paizo and MANY OTHER PUBLISHERS' fame) is stepping in for a heavy re-write of Chapter 5. After that it goes back to layout and then press.
I will be hiring editors to speed the process for Ebon Shroud and Anarchist Gamemaster's Cookbook as well.
I DID mean the academic year (mine ends in the first week of July).
I was originally supposed to write the ENTIRE Sixfold Trials adventure path episode. I backed out to try and get some work done on Sinister and only wrote the play (which took me a day of work).
I have not worked for Paizo since in any capacity as doing so would be ridiculous with Sinister floundering. Besides the play in Sixfold, I have not written a single gaming product since Sinister fell into dissarray.
Once the books announced already on Sinister are finished, I will be shutting down Sinister and retiring from the game-writing community. Taking pre-orders was a HUGE mistake, and I apologize for it. I am committed to finishing ALL the announced products as quickly as possible and am hiring help to get them done.
Sorry for all the trouble I've caused.
Nick
And the lesson is that writing is one thing and publishing is another. Once can be a great writer, but not everybody is a great publisher at the same time. Some folks can combine both roles with ease (Wolfgang Baur is a great example), some struggle (Nick).
I do feel sorry for Nick. This is a tough business even as a side hobby thing, as I am sure he just found out.
...or he could reconsider LPJ's offer to let him buy Sinister instead of letting it die completely.
EDIT: And speak of the devil, he snuck in a post as I was typing mine! Heh.
Sad to hear the result of all this is Nick's premature retirement from rpg writing. I think Sinister has produced and could continue to produce some incredible stuff based on existing and announced material, so it's a shame to see it close up entirely. The company just needs someone dedicated to cracking the whip and keeping things on schedule. Hope things get better for you, Nick, and that you find a way to make it work without going to the extreme of hanging up your design dice forever.
Ah geez, Nick retiring is a loss. I'm sorry to hear how things went. Maybe someday after he is in a different place, he'll come out of retirement. But yeah, taking on things in addition to academia can be HELL.
Ah geez, Nick retiring is a loss. I'm sorry to hear how things went. Maybe someday after he is in a different place, he'll come out of retirement. But yeah, taking on things in addition to academia can be HELL.
So that's a 'no' for your RPG authoring future? ;)
Ah geez, Nick retiring is a loss. I'm sorry to hear how things went. Maybe someday after he is in a different place, he'll come out of retirement. But yeah, taking on things in addition to academia can be HELL.So that's a 'no' for your RPG authoring future? ;)
Don't put words in my mouth. I'm still an adjunct. :D
Let's just say that as of now, I have no announcements to make.
Double Honors and a mere adjunct? Is that like saying you're Summa and not Magna?
Please do not quit, Nick. Just because you had a bad time does not mean that you should totally give up. ~sighs~ Time to e-mail him.
Double Honors and a mere adjunct? Is that like saying you're Summa and not Magna?
No. More like saying the job market sucks. Also, community college sucks. Lucky bastards better love me while they have me.
PS Summa is better than Magna.
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Please do not quit, Nick. Just because you had a bad time does not mean that you should totally give up.
I totally agree.
Nick dropping RPG-writing entirely because of this is a pretty good blow to the community, he's got an amazing mind for the macabre and I don't think I've ever written anything by him that I didn't like.
...or he could reconsider LPJ's offer to let him buy Sinister instead of letting it die completely.
+1!
As fans we need to step up to the plate and show Nick that we still want him around, despite the SNAFU that occurred.
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Please do not quit, Nick. Just because you had a bad time does not mean that you should totally give up. ~sighs~ Time to e-mail him.
Yeah I emailed him as well to express the lose the hobby would have if he left it completely. Hopefully he changes his mind. And to bring attention to it, is why I posted it here.
Dark_Mistress, do you have a viable e-mail addy that you can leave here for the rest of us?
Double Honors and a mere adjunct? Is that like saying you're Summa and not Magna?No. More like saying the job market sucks. Also, community college sucks. Lucky bastards better love me while they have me.
PS Summa is better than Magna.
Whoops. I did get that backwards. At least I didn't throw in egregia or maxima.
PS I like egregia, personally.
Dark_Mistress, do you have a viable e-mail addy that you can leave here for the rest of us?Just the one he left in the post I quoted above. Since he told people wanting a refund to contact him there I presume that means he checks it fairly often. So i just used that one.
Thanks. I think that that is the one that I sent the e-mail to. For everyone else, here is the e-mail to contact Nick Logue...
nflogue@hotmail.com
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Well, it would be a loss if he gave up completely. But I bet this whole thing is stressing him big-time and he has his job, relationships and so on to think about. I personally respect his decision - we can't really give him a hard time but then complain again when he decides to call it a day. But I hope he reconsiders on the freelancing side.
Well, it would be a loss if he gave up completely. But I bet this whole thing is stressing him big-time and he has his job, relationships and so on to think about. I personally respect his decision - we can't really give him a hard time but then complain again when he decides to call it a day. But I hope he reconsiders on the freelancing side.
+1. I agree. Hell, breaks are sometimes the best thing that a stressed out person can do. HOWEVER, I for one am going to show my support and do my best to let him know that we will be here for him when he comes back.
Contributor
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...and I think that Nick should probably have returned what he received, frankly (although that might be prohibitively expensive, I don't know how the finances of Sinister work)...
zzzzzt
Lou here.
Just an FYI. It's a standing offer from the Sinister site: if you want your money back, email Nick and he'll send it to you. You can get his email in the Sinister forums.
Also, despite what the site says, preorders have been dismantled.
That is all.
zzzzzzt
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I'm just not excited about it anymore...Sadly, the same goes for me and I shelled out the pre-order money. But after waiting this long...I'm kinda over it. That's why I asked for a refund and got no response. None. Not even, "Sorry, we've already spent your money so you're in whether you want to be or not!" At least some type of response would have been something.
zzzzt
Lou, here.
Hey Hedgeknight: I strongly urge you to ask again. Not that you should have to, but I'm sure Nick will give you your money back.
That is all.
zzzzt.
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...and I think that Nick should probably have returned what he received, frankly (although that might be prohibitively expensive, I don't know how the finances of Sinister work)...zzzzzt
Lou here.
Just an FYI. It's a standing offer from the Sinister site: if you want your money back, email Nick and he'll send it to you. You can get his email in the Sinister forums.
Also, despite what the site says, preorders have been dismantled.
That is all.
zzzzzzt
Actually if you look up, I posted his post over here so people could see it Lou. BTW slap him around till he agrees not to retire. :)
Finances have been a little tight for me lately, and I've thought several times of asking for a refund for both of the Sinister books I preordered, but your experience is sort of what I predicted would happen, so I never bothered. I'm sure when the books eventually come out I'll be glad I got them, but I'm not waiting in line to preorder the next one.
Hey Mark - you gonna ask for a refund or just wait it out? Drop me an email at
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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If you don't need the money back I recommend hanging in there. Tim Connors writes great stuff, and when he polishes chapter five off the finished product should be all we ever hoped for. I say that not as a fanboy (though I am that) but as one of the proofreaders.
It's great to see this all finally getting back on the rails (Lou cracks a mean whip, Nick seems to have found thirty or forty free seconds every few days) and I am quietly optimistic that the finished product will meet the expectations.
I got over spending my cash about eighteen months ago - and then went ahead and did more preorders, of course. The money is as spent as the beer I had in 2008, so when RC finally arrives it'll be like a free gift!
Now to mail Nick and add my voice to the "don't hang up your pen completely" crowd.
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Actually if you look up, I posted his post over here so people could see it Lou. BTW slap him around till he agrees not to retire. :)...and I think that Nick should probably have returned what he received, frankly (although that might be prohibitively expensive, I don't know how the finances of Sinister work)...zzzzzt
Lou here.
Just an FYI. It's a standing offer from the Sinister site: if you want your money back, email Nick and he'll send it to you. You can get his email in the Sinister forums.
Also, despite what the site says, preorders have been dismantled.
That is all.
zzzzzzt
Ah, yep. You beat me too it. Want to give me something to slap him around with? ;)
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If you don't need the money back I recommend hanging in there. Tim Connors writes great stuff, and when he polishes chapter five off the finished product should be all we ever hoped for. I say that not as a fanboy (though I am that) but as one of the proofreaders.
It's great to see this all finally getting back on the rails (Lou cracks a mean whip, Nick seems to have found thirty or forty free seconds every few days) and I am quietly optimistic that the finished product will meet the expectations.
I got over spending my cash about eighteen months ago - and then went ahead and did more preorders, of course. The money is as spent as the beer I had in 2008, so when RC finally arrives it'll be like a free gift!
Now to mail Nick and add my voice to the "don't hang up your pen completely" crowd.
Actually, it's Tim Hitchcock and I who'll be collaborating to finish Chapter 5, carborundum. Caught you in a typo. I don't know man, you're proofing...
:^p
Yoda and I talked and both of us are gonna hang in there and wait for the finished product. After that...who knows?
Not to sound like a jerk or anything,
meps.
meh.....all I can say is baby steps, Nick. Baby steps.
It'll be all good.
Not to sound like a jerk or anything, but are we really discussing Nick taking time off after waiting two years for something to come out?!?!??!
Actually, I think this is hilarious. :)
Patrick
*shrugs*
I'd rather he take the time off, collect himself, get organized, and start Sinister afresh, with perhaps a less sweeping agenda. As the poxy mutant leprechaun said, 'baby steps'.
Actually I find it distressing when one of my favorite authors hits a snag. I feel bad for George R.R. Martin, I feel bad for Patrick Rothfuss. I feel bad for Nick now too ... :(
Another Patrick
If I die before Razor Coast comes out, is my pre-order transferrable to my heirs?
I would hope so. But I already bit on the pre order so I'm committed. Many have said that I should be committed but this is neither here nor there. As far as I'm concerned, I've paid for it and am just waiting for the result of my investment. I am a neo-pagan as well as anything else and may Pele the Goddess of Hawaii help this book on its merry way and may it give here the love and attention she deserves.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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Actually, it's Tim Hitchcock and I who'll be collaborating to finish Chapter 5, carborundum. Caught you in a typo. I don't know man, you're proofing...:^p
D'oh! Forgot to proof my own post :-)
So many Tims - inconvievable!
How did I...?.... ahh... I'd just been reading the Tales of the Old Margreve forum - that was why.
I'm just not excited about it anymore...Sadly, the same goes for me and I shelled out the pre-order money. But after waiting this long...I'm kinda over it. That's why I asked for a refund and got no response. None. Not even, "Sorry, we've already spent your money so you're in whether you want to be or not!" At least some type of response would have been something.
Hi Hedgeknight!
Not sure why I didn't get your email. Shoot me one again on nflogue@hotmail.com - I'll refund you immediately.
Nick
I'm just not excited about it anymore...Sadly, the same goes for me and I shelled out the pre-order money. But after waiting this long...I'm kinda over it. That's why I asked for a refund and got no response. None. Not even, "Sorry, we've already spent your money so you're in whether you want to be or not!" At least some type of response would have been something.Hi Hedgeknight!
Not sure why I didn't get your email. Shoot me one again on nflogue@hotmail.com - I'll refund you immediately.
Nick
I'm good, Nick. I posted just above that I was going to stick with the order.
But now that you have shown up here...can't you see how much we respect your work? Lots of folks on here don't want to you to give up gaming. Take some time off, give yourself a break, and then come back in force. We'll still be around.
...or he could reconsider LPJ's offer to let him buy Sinister instead of letting it die completely.+1!
That is something I would be very interested in speaking to Nick about doing.
I'm waiting on a Pathfidner version whenever that happens to come out. I paid my money so I have a place in line. Nothing much more to do but wait.
Re:Razor Coast Updates from Lou Posted at 2010/06/16 20:36
Hey all, for the first time since I took on Razor Coast I have some delays to report.Tim Hitchcock is still working on Chapter 5. It's going a little slower than expected as he has to absorb the over 150 pages of text (without the appendix) and digest the very non-linear sandbox setting/adventure that is RC.
Adam Daigle just got hit with a huge project, which will delay his super-secret monster contribution by about 2 weeks or so.
Fire as She Bears is tremendous. Maybe too tremendous, and I haven't had the time to dig into the draft and help it reach the next level. So I'm going to request a third draft from the author (poor guy doesn't know that) then tackle it. That'll take a bit. However it does mean that RC will have an entire d20 subsystem for ship-to-ship combat on the high seas, including new feats, skills, magic items, etc. It really has become a Chapter 6, 50 odd pages in its own right.
Still, neither FaSB nor Adam's secret monsters will delay the book on their own as both should finish by about when Tim finishes. Should either FaSB or Adam's monsters look to delay RC, Nick can always release RC without them and both FaSB and the monster(s) as Indulgences. I'll discuss the best options with Nick as we get toward the end of June.
No promises, but my gut tells me a 2 week delay or thereabouts. That has me turning over the ready-to-go RC manuscript to Nick sometime in mid-July.
On an quasi-unrelated note, the Ling9000 reports that Pathfinderization of the Intro - Chapter 2 is nigh complete and Chapter 3 is in his sights.
And that is the update.