I don't want to drag out the Summon Nick ritual but I'd love to know what his time table is right now on this and the GM book I also pre-ordered.You never know who you might get!Maybe I need to start testing the Nicks. It involves a flame thrower.
I know the real Nick would laugh be annoyed at his singed clothes. Fake Nicks usually become blackened and crispy.
The goggles! They do nothing!
I haven't chimed in on the Razor Coast yet, I am looking forward to it, glad I wasn't a pre-order, but I'll be picking it up eventually.
Nick what are some main differences between your Razor Coast RPG, and Pathfinder?
I haven't chimed in on the Razor Coast yet, I am looking forward to it, glad I wasn't a pre-order, but I'll be picking it up eventually.
Nick what are some main differences between your Razor Coast RPG, and Pathfinder?
Are you wondering about system differences? Because RC is non-system specific (sorta). They are going to put out rules for 3.5, PFRPG and Savage World, at least that was the plan. Really, Razor Coast is just a Campaign Setting with an integrated adventure arch. At least that's how I understand it.
Are you wondering about system differences? Because RC is non-system specific (sorta). They are going to put out rules for 3.5, PFRPG and Savage World, at least that was the plan. Really, Razor Coast is just a Campaign Setting with an integrated adventure arch. At least that's how I understand it.I haven't chimed in on the Razor Coast yet, I am looking forward to it, glad I wasn't a pre-order, but I'll be picking it up eventually.
Nick what are some main differences between your Razor Coast RPG, and Pathfinder?
Yeah, Razor Coast isn't an RPG, it's an adventure/setting. It was originally for 3.5e but is also going to be released in Pathfinder and Savage Worlds editions.
Lou, you rocketh mightily. Bring us home, bay-bee!
I've been waiting for a bit as I did preorder. And if given a choice of system, I'd prefer Pathfinder. For no other reason than PFRPG is the system that mirrors what I like to play as a player and a GM.
Good luck, I have two books on pre-order with Nick now. This and the GM book
I don't expect it until late Summer...if then.
I don't expect it until late Summer...if then.Summer of '69. 2069. :)
Congratulations Gorbacz! You're the six hundred and sixty 6th post in this thread.
That makes you the Son of Nick! And when the day it does ship, you'll get yours first.
so, when was RC announced, 2008? We are soon celebrating 2 years :D
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Quick update, because I'm on the run. Bad and Good.
BAD
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For the first time since I took this on, the pace has slowed a little. Chapter 5 is proving tough to rework without unduly affecting the previous 4 chapters. No worries -- we shall prevail! Until I can finish off chapter 5, I've got a proofer idle. This irritates me no end, as I despise inefficiency.GOOD
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The idle proofer is taking at crack at the Fire as She Bears challenge.I've received my first response to the Fire as She Bears challenge, and it looks pretty interesting. We'll see how it plays.
Chapter 3 is back from the proofing pipeline. Chapter 4 is back from the 2nd proofer in the proofing pipeline. I expect Chapter 4 to go to the last proofer this week.
As a reminder the workflow looks like this: writer --> editorial1 + stat block --> editorial2 --> proofer1 --> editorial3 --> proofer2 --> editorial4 --> senior editorial --> layout.
Writer = Nick
Editorial 1-4 = Lou
Proofer 1 = mxyzplk
Proofer 2 = Carborundum
Senior Editorial = Nick
Layout = B-Chapter 5 was sent back to writer
The intro and chapters 1, 2 & 3 are in editorial4
Chapter 4 is in editorial3
The Appendix is in editorial2As soon as Chapter 5 hits editorial2, then all chapters (intro, 1-5, appendix) will enter pathfinder conversion.
All maps are done.
And that's the status to date...
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so, when was RC announced, 2008? We are soon celebrating 2 years :D
It was announced April 1st of 2008 and Nick swore then it wasn't a april fools joke but it is seeming more and more like it is the longest running one instead. :)
I love nick to death(literally), I am still looking forward to the book but the waiting is getting bad. At this point it's worse than a donkey punch.
At this point it's worse than a donkey punch.
Wow, that's pretty bad. Not that I would know or anything..
(stupid post monster)
Huzzah! The unwashed masses will worship Lord Pett now that all this dastardly Loguery has been exposed!
Huzzah! The unwashed masses will worship Lord Pett now that all this dastardly Loguery has been exposed!
ALL HAIL LORD PETT!
Huzzah! The unwashed masses will worship Lord Pett now that all this dastardly Loguery has been exposed!
Sorry, not interested in anything petty
Posted at 2010/03/19 12:45
Writer = Nick
Editorial 1-4 = Lou
Proofer 1 = mxyzplk
Proofer 2 = Carborundum
Senior Editorial = Nick
Layout = B-Chapter 4 has advanced to Proofer 2
Nick and I are now collaborating to expand/revise Chapter 5 in record timeAnd that's the update...
Huzzah! The unwashed masses will worship Lord Pett now that all this dastardly Loguery has been exposed!ALL HAIL LORD PETT!
Long live the Pett!
Oh, Nick! I just got a weird idea that I thought I'd share with you. If you can converse with the lovely people who set up Golarion as to where the Razor Coast could be, might I suggest you turn part of the Razor Coast adventure into an Adventure path? Just a suggestion as I think the epic scale of Razor Coast would work well with an Adventure Path structure. Plus you could throw in the indulgences in as extra articles to go along with the Adventure Path. Again I'm just suggesting this as a possible idea.
Not that I want to be pushy but how is progress on Razor Coast?
From the forums on the Sinister site it seems to be mostly done, except for chapter 5, which Nick needs to rewrite. There's some playtesting needed on a rules section, but most of it depends on Nick producing that chapter so the rest can be done based around it.
Unfortunately judging by Nick's apparent vanishment off the face of the planet, that last chapter is seeming more and more likely to show up about 2012 or so, just in time for the end of that Mayan calender.
Don't hold your breath in other words. To be honest if it wasn't for Nick Logue's name and reputation, by now I'd have assumed all the Sinister games preorders were just another internet scam.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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Well, after a lot of long hours proofreading the four finished chapters I can vouch for their existence and their awesomeness. And largeness! Lou has really pulled this mammoth project together and I've been really impressed by the way he works.
I've had two years of frustrating wait, like plenty of others, and the product looks like being all I hoped for back then and more. It's been a long wait to even get this far and has been incredibly frustrating for a lot of people (including Nick).
It is full of great, nasty, clever, tricksy stuff. Oh Lordy, there is some great stuff. I can't wait for the last sixty or seventy pages to arrive, so I can thwart the evil missing capital letters and apostrophes. And get it back to Lou to work his editorial magic.
When all is said and done and Nick asks me what version I want, I will want as close to Pathfinder as he has. It has been a very frustrating wait but I have faith that that payoff will be worthwhile. Depending on how this goes I may even use Razor Coast as a source book for use with Sunken Empires.
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Sinister Adventures should go down as one of the epic missteps in all of publishing history...sad really
all rivalry aside, pett should peddle his shroud over at Frog God
Sinister Adventures should go down as one of the epic missteps in all of publishing history...sad really
all rivalry aside, pett should peddle his shroud over at Frog God
Care to clarify on what's been going on here ?
Latest update 16/05/2010 (dd/mm/yyyy):
MY NUTSACK IS TASERED SOMETHING FIERCE!And I deserve it!
So sorry everyone! The rumors of my demise are premature, I am indeed still alive, sort of!
I don't want to bore you with the details of my long sojourn from Sinister, but ONLY IF YOU ARE INTERESTED, HERE FOLLOWS MY LAME EXCUSES AND MEA CULPAS...IF NOT SKIP TO THE CAPS BELOW!
So.
I am the head of a department of World Theatre that has over 80 students on the program right now. I had two assistants who help me wrangle this beast of a course.
One left us quite suddenly at the start of this term (April 19th) for other employ, and the other was caught in the crazy volcanic ash cloud madness - then after she got back, she went on a month's leave.
In the meantime, I've been trying to cover both their work, and wrangling a host of visiting tutors who are supposed to be overseen by my assistants too. I am also currently directing THREE productions at the school concurrently - Romeo and Juliet, Taming of the Shrew, and an adaptation of the Monkey King (Wreaking Havoc in the Dragon's Palace).
It's stupid-crazy-busy to the tune of 90 - 100 hour weeks, working through the weekends, little sleep (about 13-14 hours of work a day, usually including the weekends too). Sucks.
Things are still quite rocky until my other assistant comes off leave (and probably dealing with the work pile up will continue till the end of term). But, after that I hit some serious free time from my day job when I can focus in on Sinister and have me some fun!
NONE OF THE ABOVE REALLY MAKES ANY DIFFERENCE, AND I AM SO SORRY FOR MY ABSENCE. JUST THOUGHT SOME PEOPLE MIGHT LIKE TO KNOW THE BACKSTORY OF WHY I AM SUCH A BUM.
In short, I love and miss you. I miss having the free time to work on Sinister. I've been chipping away at Ebon Shroud, AGC and new Indulgences in my scant spare time, but I've been pretty swamped.
I AM COMMITTED TO FINISHING, IN STYLE, ALL OF THESE PRODUCTS. I just need more time, and I am so sorry about this. Thanks for your EPIC patience with me, and I feel terrible for these constant delays.
On the good news front: Lou is doing a fantastic job wrangling RC and has even requested some good re-writes from me on the Climactic Last Chapter. My time being so short, I am fishing for a FANTASTIC freelancer, I think most of you know and love (or love to be terrified by) who will pick up the slack with this work. I should have some good news on this front in the next couple days and will chime in as soon as I do!
Hope gaming is treating you all very well!
I FINALLY refused to go into work on a Saturday yesterday, and instead grasped the chance to play some Pathfinder (first time I've had a moment to roll the bones in quite some time). I ran a quickly-slapped-together game from 8pm until 6am (after putting in a few hours on Ebon Shroud and AGC, fear not!) and it was EPIC! Much good times. We drank mead as we played till sunrise and it was nice to get back at the gaming!
I am sorry for my absence! I will be better! I hope - BEYOND HOPE - that my day job will finally calm down a bit after this year is out and the course starts to find its rhythm. Then Sinister can do the evil evil things its supposed to do!
HUGE THANKS TO LOU FOR ALL HIS STALWART AND IMPRESSIVE WORKS!
HUGER THANKS TO YOU ALL FOR HANGING IN THERE!
Now I shall go put my nutsack in a bowl of ice-water, and I'll check back in with you all in a couple of days, hopefully with very very good news about Chapter 5!
Nick
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Well as I told him on his forum more or less. He just needs to bite the bullet and hire some more people to help. Even if he doesn't make money on it. Just to get the stuff done and going. I then think once he does catch up he needs to keep a editor and others on contract, with someone cracking the whip over him. Otherwise I think the company and his rep is going to suffer for it... more than it already has. Which would be a shame as he is a good writer, just seem to not really know how to run a company yet.
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Well, I don't really see the point of him making no money just to please us - he won't bother doing anything else, otherwise. And I suspect Razor Coast will sell quite well once it comes into existence. He has just been insanely ambitious - multiple versions for different systems, for example, and assuming he could do two full-time jobs. But I also sympathise - he has had a lot of life changes over the past two years so his initial assumptions didn't stack up.
If he gets it printed, then I will buy it.
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It is not about never making money. It is about the short term making people happy and gaining good will back. A lot of people are very unhappy with this. Appeasing them would help his companies image. Once he gets the ball rolling things would be different.
At the minimum it needs to cover costs (and as an academic in a British university you can guarantee he's not taking home a huge wedge on that either). I guess I'm fortunate in that I resisted the temptation to lay out money until a more concrete arrival time came up, and then it didn't, and I can certainly understand those who have paid in advance not seeing anything for two years other than promises. But beyond some casual help I don't see him setting up a payroll and people cracking whips - he has a day job already which keeps him busy. In the end, after this saga, it will come down to whether you think a Logue product will be any good irrespective of the history. Nick's problem doesn't seem to be laziness or lack of focus, but simply the lack of hours in the day. And he failed to manage expectations (and maybe shouldn't have taken the money off the back of those).
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I am not talking payroll. I am talking doing what he did with Lou. He hired Lou to edit RC. Hire Lou or someone else to help with layout and edit on the other books etc. That might mean Nick makes less or only just breaks even. I just think with how people are reacting over at his site and here he needs to do something more and soon. I payed for RC 2 years ago. I still don't mind, all this has done for me is I won't preorder from Sinister anymore till they have a established track record for delivering in a reasonable amount of time.
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Nick isn't a company with vast reserves that means he can afford to lose money with loss-leaders. He is an amateur, and frankly it shows. I understand the frustration but it is unrealistic to expect him to hire a bunch of people (and we don't know the terms of his agreement with Louis, nor would I enquire). I'd be surprised if anything much comes out of Sinister in future except on (at best) an extremely sporadic basis. Nick clearly can't run a business for toffee but he is a gifted writer albeit with distractions. He clearly had no idea what was involved and took on too many extraneous activities (although one of those, to be fair, is his day job). But I really doubt he has deep pockets to significant incur up-front costs to get out a book which might not even sell that many copies (nothing being guaranteed). It won't happen, and I wouldn't expect him to do so for me. In the end, Nick is not a businessman, he is an artist (dahling!). I think the equations changes a bit if you have laid out money and I think that Nick should probably have returned what he received, frankly (although that might be prohibitively expensive, I don't know how the finances of Sinister work). But even so, if you like his stuff then you have to wait. I simply don't see it as realistic to expect him to suddenly professionalise his outfit when he hasn't sold anything apart from a couple of those Indulgences.
Meh. I've made my peace with the delays. I'm sure Nick and Lou will deliver the goods, I just terminated my expectations of a firm delivery date. The money is long factored out of my budget, so it's just a waiting game now.
I do wonder if there will be any 'bonus' material for those of us who ponied up the cash two years ago though.
That might mean Nick makes less or only just breaks even. I just think with how people are reacting over at his site and here he needs to do something more and soon. I payed for RC 2 years ago. I still don't mind, all this has done for me is I won't preorder from Sinister anymore till they have a established track record for delivering in a reasonable amount of time.
+1
Nick is at the point now where those of us who pre-ordered two years ago are never going to do that again with him. The product(s) will have to be in stock before many of us (I daresay) will purchase from his company...assuming it survives this irresponsible misstep. As for me personally, I'm not as confident as some that we will even see the product before year's end. I've known and worked with people like Nick who promise and promise and promise and make excuses and excuses and excuses and nothing ever gets done. So...I'll believe it when I see it. I asked for a refund last year and got no reply and hear I am (along with many others) who have nothing to show for their investment. Call it harsh or whatever, I don't give a damn, but I don't want excuses - I want product in hand.
If I die before Razor Coast comes out, is my pre-order transferrable to my heirs?
If I die before Razor Coast comes out, is my pre-order transferrable to my heirs?
The answer is no - and the depths of Nick's true evil genius is revealed.
Meh. I've made my peace with the delays. I'm sure Nick and Lou will deliver the goods, I just terminated my expectations of a firm delivery date. The money is long factored out of my budget, so it's just a waiting game now.
I do wonder if there will be any 'bonus' material for those of us who ponied up the cash two years ago though.
+1
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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For my part, I don't mind late projects. (Temple of Elemental Evil, only a little bit past its deadline...) I would much rather get a product with the best quality possible, than a product that kept its deadlines through being riddled with errors and second-rate writing and design. A year later, the missed deadline won't matter so much.
What has bemused me throughout this experience are the repeated assurances. Take a look through this thread at what Nick's apologies and promises from 2 years ago, then 18 months ago, then a year ago, ...
They're saying the same damn thing now.
The greatest shame, I suspect, is that there are likely small projects, like PFS scenarios or side articles in the Pathfinder AP's, that Nick would be great at writing, but he can't take on any other writing projects while Razor Coast hands over his head ('cause people would kill him).