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Okay, as I see it, there are two schools of thought that seem able to be merged here.
1. Consolidate Skills.
For the most part, if I'm reading the posts correctly, people seem to like the consolidation of skills and if anything, want to see more consolidation. What Paizo's done is simply not enough.
How about the following as a base (note that this is a list combined of D&D and d20 Modern):
- Acrobatics (Dex): Balance, Escape Artist, Fly, Initiative, Tumble.
- Arcana (Int): Appraise*, Craft*, Decipher*, Forgery*, Knowledge (arcane lore), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device.
- Athletics (Str): Climb, Jump, Run, Swim.
- Deception (Cha): Bluff, Disguise, Gamble.
- Endurance (Con): Autohypnosis, Concentration, Endurance.
- Engineering (Int): Appraise*, Craft*, Decipher*, Forgery*, Knowledge (architecture & engineering).
- Handle Animal (Cha): Handle Animal, Ride.
- Investigate (Int): Investigate, Research, Search.
- Knowledge (behavior) (Int): Appraise*, Craft*, Decipher*, Forgery*, Knowledge (behavioral sciences, tactics).
- Knowledge (sciences) (Int): Appraise*, Craft*, Decipher*, Forgery*, Knowledge (earth & life sciences, physical sciences).
- Knowledge (society) (Int): Appraise*, Craft*, Decipher*, Forgery*, Knowledge (art, business, civics, current events, nobility & royalty, popular culture).
- Languages (Int): Read & Speak.
- Lore (Int): Appraise*, Craft*, Decipher*, Forgery*, Knowledge (history, planes, religion (or theology & philosophy)).
- Mechanics (Int): Demolitions, Disable Device, Open Lock, Repair*.
- Nature (Int): Appraise*, Craft*, Decipher*, Forgery*, Knowledge (dungeoneering, geography, nature), Navigate, Survival.
- Perception (Wis): Listen, Sense Motive, Spot.
- Perform (Cha): While a chosen venue perhaps, treat here as multi-talented. Otherwise, roleplay specificities.
- Pilot (Dex): Drive, Pilot.
- Profession (Wis): Profession. Simplified for purposes of wealth checks.
- Persuasion (Cha): Diplomacy, Intimidate.
- Psicraft (Int): Appraise*, Craft*, Decipher*, Forgery*, Knowledge (psionics), Psicraft, Use Psionic Device.
- Smithing (Int): Appraise*, Craft*, Decipher*, Forgery*, Use Rope.
- Stealth (Dex): Hide, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand.
- Streetwise (Int): Appraise*, Craft*, Decipher*, Forgery*, Gather Information, Knowledge (local, streetwise).
- Technology (Int): Appraise*, Craft*, Decipher*, Repair* Forgery*, Computer Use, Knowledge (technology).
- Treat Injury (Int): Heal (or Treat Injury).
That said, people are also uncomfortable with trained skills as opposed to skill ranks. Frankly, I don't mind trained skills . . . but ranks work just as well. And so, to avoid too much alteration from 3.5:
2. Stick with Skill Ranks.
You can change the number of ranks a class acquires per level, or simply up the DC of checks. My house rule for my games was to simply up the DC by +5 to account for greater maxing out of skills by characters.
Thoughts?
This is great...I like it because of the consolidation. And my personal beef was that search was in perception when it is far better suited to be with investigate as listed in your examples.
Well done.
Well there is more then two schools of that at lest 4 out of 10 seem to like a faster skill system .And Consolidateing skills even farther would make it to simple. I like complex but I want faster .I as a dm and a player am pretty much done with skill points. Consolidateing to far skills is giving me less to work with and less choice and thats the main issue most people bring up with killing off skill points really.I dont think less skills is the key here ,although Consolidateing some is a good ideal.What my issue with is the skill point system itself it looks nice on paper 8 years of messing with it tells me its time to evolve it .
the skill system just needs work its that simple. some of the one you added in together are nice though.
My problem with the new skills is that when you take acrobatics as a trained skill, you automatically are good at balancing AND tumbling. While it makes some sense that you would be good at both, it is not even nearly all the time so.
I'm converting the RotRL campaign to Alpha and some monsters have all the skills they need, but still have skill slots open to them. And the skills they do not have, make no sense for them to have.
I would like to keep the old skill list to give broader options (with Fly as a new skill), but use the Alpha system.
I also use an Endurance skill (the old Endurance and Diehard feats with DCs assigned, plus some of the Autohypnosis stuff) and a Streetwise skill (Knowledge (local) plus Gather Information, plus the old "theives' cant" or Innuendo). Good stuff.
I'm using something very similiar in my 3.75 game, and I especially like the Investigate thing. One change I'd suggest is that rather than rolling dungeoneering into nature, I'd have:
dungeoneering: (knowledge dungeoneering & survival underground)
nature: (knowledge nature, knowledge geography & survival in wilderness)
streetwise: (some uses of knowledge local, knowledge history, survival in urban environments and gather information)
I like that because it allows you to have traditional rangers, urban rangers (and city-based rogues) and drow or other underground rangers. Essentially a specialisation of the old survival skill with appropriate knowledges rolled in.
dungeoneering: (knowledge dungeoneering & survival underground)
I'll probably combine your "dungeoneering" with Profession (miner) to create a dungeoneering and mining skill. Then I just need to decide if I call it "dungeoneering" or "mining" or "profession (miner)" or what.
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My problem with the new skills is that when you take acrobatics as a trained skill, you automatically are good at balancing AND tumbling. While it makes some sense that you would be good at both, it is not even nearly all the time so.
This is the exact reason that my group ultimately voted down the house rule changes. They especially didn't like combining things like Hide and Move Silently or Listen and Spot.
To each their own.
I respect that each skill takes on a flavor of its own, but I'm basically overwhelmed with all the skills that have slight, if not significant overlaps. Open Lock and Disable Device, anyone?
Personally, the two driving reasons I have for wanting to condense skills are:
1. We don't rely on skills a lot anyhow. So, why not make it easier to focus on the ones we use?
2. I HATE synergies. HATE. HATE. HATE. The problem here is that my players think synergies are cool. They shoot for five ranks just to get that darned synergy. For me, tracking synergies is an absolute pain.