I absolutely disagree with the idea that some how making one class useful in combat and another useful out of combat is somehow balanced. It certainly isn't fun. Sure each class should have things they're good at that no other class are as good at, but combat or non-combat in general are not among those things. All classes should have things they're good at both in and out of combat.
No class should have less than 4 + Int Bonus skill points unless they're spellcasters. Each class should be at least somewhat useful in almost all situations of combat, ans should have some suitations in which they really excel. Classes that once were built around out of combat like the Rogue might lose some of they're effectiveness out side of combat, but should gain more use in combat.
theres alot of talk about this in the skills and feats section .I myself what 4/6 skills but your better off discussing this topic there.
No class should have less than 4 + Int Bonus skill points unless they're spellcasters.
I do hope you mean INT-based casters.
Maybe. Spellcasters can deal with a lot of problems with they're spells.
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Rogues are the skill monkeys, you have to be in order to do all the skills a thief in the party should do. Find the trap, disarm the trap, open the lock, sneak past the nasty monster, pick the guards pockets, scale the wall, slip the bonds, decipher the secret message that says 'don't look up' (I liked that trap). To do all this you have to spend 11 skill choices to do it all. Everyone saying gimp the thief is kind of depressing to me.
well kalebon my suggestion was give them 6 then 2 at 4/8/16/20 but that got shot down alot . seems most folks have issues with dips and dont know how to say no so I was looking for a way to keep em skill monkeys but without letting one level of rouge be a fast fix in stand of rewarding rogues that stuck with it.
I'm not saying gimp them completely. Just spread it around a bit. Allow the fighter to disable traps or serve as the party's face. In fact I really think the rogue doesn't get enough class feature wise to support they're role out of combat. They should be able to do things with they're primary skills that other classes couldn't even dream of doing. And also make them more effective in combat. I was thinking of giving them a bonus to attacks when they can use sneak attacks.
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I'm not saying gimp them completely. Just spread it around a bit. Allow the fighter to disable traps or serve as the party's face. In fact I really think the rogue doesn't get enough class feature wise to support they're role out of combat. They should be able to do things with they're primary skills that other classes couldn't even dream of doing. And also make them more effective in combat. I was thinking of giving them a bonus to attacks when they can use sneak attacks.
IF fighter's could disarm traps why have a rogue in the party at all, considering the mage types can cast a spell to open locks automatically. (knock)
But keeping rogue with the full 8+int is what I say. Ya there might be dipping, but the dips will get hurt in the long run.
Again as I said in other topics: The golden rule: 'The DM has last say'