Having played an archer-focused fighter through level 12 in 3.5, I must say I do not like the change to this feat.
The real benefit of Manyshot wasn't the increased arrows, but that it only took a standard action. This means I could move and fire a volley of arrows albeit with a penalty. With your version of Manyshot, I'm rooted in place again.
I would prefer to have options in combat. If I'm able to stand still and fire arrows, then I have the option of Rapid shot with full attack. But if I'm tactically forced to move, I have one option in this rule set, move and fire one arrow. At high levels, that is devestating.
Also, Manyshot in this ruleset is virtually redundant with Rapid Shot. They both produce the same results though I avoid the -2 penalty to hit with Manyshot. But at high levels, with high BAB, this -2 becomes nearly meaningless anyway. Furthermore, since precision based damage isn't applied to the second arrow of Manyshot, I'm going to be using Rapid Shot. At least in 3.5, if I wanted to sacrifice precision-based damage to use Manyshot, I did so to gain the move action.
Finally, though I won't go into detail about combat chaining as it is dealt with elsewhere on this board, let me just say I'm not a fan of being locked into chaining shots. The tactical dynamics in 3.5 are very nice, but also change from round to round. I may have to move after my Rapid Shot, thus ruining my Manyshot.
I have to agree on this. The ranger in my Planescape game had Manyshot and rarely stayed in place. The ability to fire as a standard action allowed her to maneuver and make use of the Precise Shot feat to assist the barbarian, monk, and rogue when they got tied down in melee.
I totally agree. The archer's biggest asset imo was his/her mobility. Now in order to get the extra shots you not only have to use a full attack action you have to remain in the same place for two rounds. That's an eternity in combat. I actually wonder about the general "combo" theme that seems to have worked its way into pathfinder. I LOVE a lot of the changes to mechanics but the combo feat theme worries me.
I agree and offer these observations:
The Many Shot Feat in the book seems to be more of an improved rapid shot and not an updated many shot feat.
Improved Rapid Shot feat is perfectly reasonable and should be in the game.
Many Shot from the SRD is usable as a _Standard_ action which means you can move and use it. The ability to use many shot as a standard action was why the attack penalty was so hefty - -2 per arrow and firing up to 2/3/4 arrows for bab of 6/11/16 respectively.
Yes in most cases normal rapid shot is better, but if you have to move, many shot is better than a single arrow.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
*nods*
They turned Manyshot into an Improved Rapid Shot.. basically giving you an extra arrow with your first attack roll when using all your attacks. You get the benefit of rapid shot without the penalty to all your attacks.
However, shoot and move is a good point, I would suggest an Improved Shoot on the Run that allows for more then 1 attack.
One more vote for an improved shot on the run. I would like to see point blank shot and precise shot combined as well.
Hojas wrote: One more vote for an improved shot on the run. And an Improved Spring Attack, while we're at it. In my experience, Spring Attack is a total stinker on high levels.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Well there is a second Spring Attack feat, but it lets you take an attack at a second target. I think it was called Improved Spring Attack.
My group has decided to nix the revised many shot in favor of the old version, especially in light of improved manyshot.
One of my plyers running a bow ranger almost cried when he found out he might have to stop moving in a battle to fire multiple arrows.
If you play a Scout, then the revised Manyshot puts three arrows directly through your character sheet. The point of Manyshot was that it gave you mobility.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Hence why we need an Improved Shoot on the Run. :)
Shot on the Run allows you to take a shot durring a move action. Useful for when you start from a space that has no LOS to a target and end you move in a similar space but pass through a space that does have LOS.
The ideal Many Shot allows you to shoot many arrows (one less than rapid shot) and move (alot more than rapid shot).
I would have no problem with a running many shot feat, I'd set the prereqs as Shot on the Run and Many Shot.
But the feat investiture for shot on the run is pretty heavy and the fact that you cant use any of the prereqs at the same time hurts alot.
Hmmm... I feel a combat feat post coming on... I'll put that in an appropriate thread.
I absolutely agree with the OP, and would like to add:
Not only is the fact that Manyshot was a standard action the whole point of it, it was so, for a very important reason.
Ranged have always had the distinct disadvantage of getting into melee range and being screwed, becasue of the Attack of Oppurtunity. The possible fixes to this were almost non-existent. You could become an Order of the Bow Initiate, a sub-par prestige class, or hope and pray you make it to level 21 and play epic. That's it.
Manyshot offered an extremely likable remedy, in that you could move and still fire a descent barrage, albiet in a much more inaccurate manner. A trade off, but a good one.
It's not like it's broken and people are firing four arrows everytime as a standard action. That is a negative 8 to hit. Fairly severe. And most would opt to fire a normal Full round action, getting more shots off with Rapid Shot in a single round.
But this Feat, gave us options, it gave us mobility, it gave us hope. Now it is merely a copy of other feats. More possible damage for a Full-round attack, sure, but how many ways are there to do that, 5, 10, 20? What it did before cannot be done by any other means.
I agree in wanting a return to the 3.5 Manyshot. The ability to move and still fire multiple arrows in a round is a nice ability and definitely not kept in check due to the penalties to attack and limitations on precision damage already in place for the 3.5 feat.
Eric Tillemans wrote: I agree in wanting a return to the 3.5 Manyshot. The ability to move and still fire multiple arrows in a round is a nice ability and definitely not kept in check due to the penalties to attack and limitations on precision damage already in place for the 3.5 feat. I think that the manyshot feat from 3.5 is overpowered. What happened to tactics? If you want to play a ranged combat character and you have trouble getting to close to the enemy, thats part of the game. Maybe you should talk to your DM about being ambushed too often; or maybe you should work with some difficulty in the game and devise a counter measure. The idea of shooting more than one arrow accuratly with one pull of the bow string is poposterous without declaring magical intervention, and you guys want to do it with enough time to run away from on oncoming fray? I personally found the manyshot feat discusting when i first came across it and I love playing a ranger. Please set me straight on why this feat is not overpowered and does infact have some place in roleplaying a range combat character. Also please explain to me why you cannot succeed in your battles without using this feat at all throught your characters' history.
The Ranger in my groups party (both of us still waiting on the new rules, you'd think it would have been one of the first or at least second to receive an update, but that's another issue...), is a ranged combatant and I simply allow him to use manyshot as a standard action OR as part of his full-attack... No broken-ness there... No reason that if you can do it quickly before firing off your second/third arrows you can't do it before or after a move...
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