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Okay guys,
In an attempt to make the Heal skill more effective, I took some inspiration from the SWSRPG and converted them to my own. What do you think of this?
HEAL
Surgery: With a healer’s kit, surgery may be attempted on a wounded creature, with an attempt taking 1 hour. The DC is 10 + the total hit points of damage the creature has taken. Success heals the creature by 1d6 hit points. Failure by 5 or more causes 1d6 points of damage. Surgery can be attempted repeatedly on a creature for cumulative effects.
Revivify: You can revive a creature that has just died from injury (damage reducing the creature below -10 hit points). You must reach the dead creature within 1 round of its death to revive it, and subsequently make a full-round action and succeed on a DC 30 Heal check. If the check succeeds, the creature is unconscious and stable at -9 hit points. If the check fails, the creature cannot be revived, and remains dead.
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A house rule we came up with for Heal. You make a Heal check and the value (with pluses or minuses for how familiar or alien the creature might be) gives you some amount of diagnosis information.
DC 10: Very General info ("He looks slightly injured.")
DC 15: General HP info ("He looks 25% down")
DC 20: Specific HP info ("I'd say he's below 10 HP")
Amusingly, this came about not to get an advantage in combat against opponents, but because of the party's Cavalier. The Cavalier would always say he was "Fine!" whenever asked. "Don't worry about me, press on!" This would continue until he finally collapsed.
SO the cleric suggested this use for the Heal skill. I thought it was brilliant! He would drop healing potions into the Cavalier's rations and slap him on the back with a CMW's when he wasn't looking.
-Pete
Surgery: With a healer’s kit, surgery may be attempted on a wounded creature, with an attempt taking 1 hour. The DC is 10 + the total hit points of damage the creature has taken. Success heals the creature by 1d6 hit points. Failure by 5 or more causes 1d6 points of damage. Surgery can be attempted repeatedly on a creature for cumulative effects.
That's awesome. But shouldn't it be chirgury? ;)
I've always thought it weird that in 3E the Heal skill can't actually heal anyone. Even in 2E, you could use the Heal proficiency to actually restore some hit points.
I'd like to see something where a Heal check can be used to restore a small amount of hit points. Maybe up to 1/4 or 1/2 a character's hit points, no more than once a day, or maybe 2-3 hp/level of the victim, again most likely no more than once per day. Preferably with a base DC for 1 hp, and 1 more at each +X DC (say DC 15, +2 per add'l hp).
This would be most beneficial if we could somehow get this skill out of the hands of the classes that already have healing magic and to the ones that would be more likely to attempt "mundane" healing.
Okay guys,
In an attempt to make the Heal skill more effective, I took some inspiration from the SWSRPG and converted them to my own. What do you think of this?
HEAL
Surgery: With a healer’s kit, surgery may be attempted on a wounded creature, with an attempt taking 1 hour. The DC is 10 + the total hit points of damage the creature has taken. Success heals the creature by 1d6 hit points. Failure by 5 or more causes 1d6 points of damage. Surgery can be attempted repeatedly on a creature for cumulative effects.
Revivify: You can revive a creature that has just died from injury (damage reducing the creature below -10 hit points). You must reach the dead creature within 1 round of its death to revive it, and subsequently make a full-round action and succeed on a DC 30 Heal check. If the check succeeds, the creature is unconscious and stable at -9 hit points. If the check fails, the creature cannot be revived, and remains dead.
The following are pulled from the d20 modern SRD for the Treat Injury skill. Some of these options could be rolled under the Heal skill. I am doing this in my AOW game and it works pretty well.
Restore Hit Points (DC 15): With a medical kit, if a character has lost hit points, the character can restore some of them. A successful check, as a full-round action, restores 1d4 hit points. The number restored can never exceed the character’s full normal total of hit points. This application of the skill can be used successfully on a character only once per day. (I did 1d4+skill ranks, but that is kind of wonky with the new skill system).
Revive Dazed, Stunned, or Unconscious Character (DC 15): With a first aid kit, the character can remove the dazed, stunned, or unconscious condition from a character. This check is an attack action. A successful check removes the dazed, stunned, or unconscious condition from an affected character. The character can’t revive an unconscious character who is at –1 hit points or lower without first stabilizing the character.
Surgery (DC 20): With a surgery kit, a character can conduct field surgery. This application of the Treat Injury skill carries a –4 penalty, which can be negated with the Surgery feat. Surgery requires 1d4 hours; if the patient is at negative hit points, add an additional hour for every point below 0 the patient has fallen.
Surgery restores 1d6 hit points for every character level of the patient (up to the patient’s full normal total of hit points) with a successful skill check. Surgery can only be used successfully on a character once in a 24-hour period. A character who undergoes surgery is fatigued for 24 hours, minus 2 hours for every point above the DC the surgeon achieves. The period of fatigue can never be reduced below 6 hours in this fashion.
Time heals all wounds ...
Actually, I like Thraxus' take on using the modern rules.
Restore Hit Points (DC 15): With a medical kit, if a character has lost hit points, the character can restore some of them. A successful check, as a full-round action, restores 1d4 hit points. The number restored can never exceed the character’s full normal total of hit points. This application of the skill can be used successfully on a character only once per day. (I did 1d4+skill ranks, but that is kind of wonky with the new skill system).
1d4 hit points at first level is fine, but when characters have 25, 50, 100, 150 hit points, that's a pittance - almost as insulting as Toughness.
1d4 hit points at first level is fine, but when characters have 25, 50, 100, 150 hit points, that's a pittance - almost as insulting as Toughness.
Yeah, you have a point. Maybe a d4 per character level? Or CL/2?
I would also say that a PC could benefit more than once in a day.
Every time you rest after a fight, that's an opportunity for someone with healing skill to patch you up and make you feel better. Anyone with kids will tell you that a band-aid always makes it feel better (as long as there aren't any broken bones, severed veins, severe burns).
Each extra battle during the day would increase the DC of the heal check. Same thing if the PC is down more than half, etc. If they took any crits, that would also add to the DC.
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I like that if only heals a d4 or possibly a d6. If you use the normal death and dying rules, that heal check can bring you back from any negative and will stabilize requardless. I use the UA varient that has players only go to 0 and then make fort saves. In that system, giving them back a d4/d6 is enough to get them up and fighting again. And if that fight was over, the party wouldn't have to drag out his body. I think since the Cure Minor Wounds spell is gone, I think the Heal skill would help fill that niche of a minor cure.
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I have another idea how to handle the Heal skill.
The basic DC is 10 and you restore 1d6hp. For every 5 points you beat the result, you restore another d6 hp. You can take 10.
BUT you can use the Heal Skill only ONCE for every PC per encounter. Using the HEal skill this way takes 10min.
Sure these are a lot of hp BUT it helps groups without Cleric to keep going a little while longer and a Cleric can use this skill to save a few spell slots for non-healing spells.
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That's a bit overpowering. I think that the starting DC should be 15 like most checks are for the skill itself. I think that it should only heal a d6/d4 for each success but each success takes so much amount of time. In combat, it may not be a good option but outside, it could be used to heal someone but it takes so long to do so. 1-6 HP per successful check that takes 10 mins would result in 6 checks in one hour for a range of healing 6-36. Don't forget as well that you get a -2 for not having a healing kit.
1d4 hit points at first level is fine, but when characters have 25, 50, 100, 150 hit points, that's a pittance - almost as insulting as Toughness.
Restore Hit Points (DC 15): With a medical kit, if a character has lost hit points, the character can restore some of them. A successful check, as a full-round action, restores 1d4 hit points. The number restored can never exceed the character’s full normal total of hit points. This application of the skill can be used successfully on a character only once per day. (I did 1d4+skill ranks, but that is kind of wonky with the new skill system).
True, though surgery does the big healing. The Restore Hit Points option is more for first aid. Maybe the two can be combined in someway. This would make party's without dedicated healers possible.
I like the d4 for first aid, and the idea of being able to use it multiple times per day. Perhaps, like Michael said, the DC could increase so that it isn't just free unlimited healing. I'd suggest that the DC increase each time the character receives healing from this method. The increase could be +2, +5, or even +10 depending on how difficult we want it to be to receive healing from the skill. Magical healing that restores someone to full hit points might even reset the DC back to its base. Additionally or alternatively, healer's kits might have a limited number of uses before you have to purchase another.
I also like Thraxus's idea of the heal skill recovering 1d4 + skill ranks. If the new skill system is used (I still like skill points, but...) it could maybe be 1d4 + the number by which the healer beats the DC.
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That may be a good fix. 1d4 + excess of DC/5. So if the DC is 15 and a cleric has a 7 in heal, he rolls a 11. He beats the DC by 2 and heals that person 1d4. That's not too bad. The highest that cleric could achieve would be 12 over the DC for a 1d4+2 which is great since there is no minor cure spells. Now to keep players from over using it. That's a different matter. Maybe allow for it to be only usable once per day or encounter since most people can only be treated every so often.
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That may be a good fix. 1d4 + excess of DC/5. So if the DC is 15 and a cleric has a 7 in heal, he rolls a 11. He beats the DC by 2 and heals that person 1d4. That's not too bad. The highest that cleric could achieve would be 12 over the DC for a 1d4+2 which is great since there is no minor cure spells. Now to keep players from over using it. That's a different matter. Maybe allow for it to be only usable once per day or encounter since most people can only be treated every so often.
I think we could even up from 1d4 (with 2,5 so 2 on average dice roll) to 1d8 (with 4,5 so 4 on average).
This brings the Healing Skill more in line with the Cure SpellsSo a first level PC with Class Skill Healing would have a 4 (ranks/trained) + X (Int. Bonus, lets say +2) = +6.
Taking 10/ the average d20 roll gives a 16 which results in 1d8
At 10 level: 13 (ranks/trained) +X (Int. Bonus, lets say +4 due to magic enhancement) + 2 MW Med Kit = 19
Taking 10/ the average d20 roll gives a 29/30 which results in 1d8 +14/15 for an average of 18,5/19
As balancing factor to avoid abuse Healing can only be used once per encounter for every PC and takes 10mins.
Explanation for this rule: You can only treat each wound once and bandaging and sewing takes time.
A Healers Kit should be about 50gp so a First level PC can buy it. A Masterwork Healers Kit gives the usual +2 bonus and should cost about 150gp.
Healing without Healers Kit imposes a -2 on the skill.
Of course Heling should also be able to cure disease and help against poisoning. But to not diminish the Cleric Spells, treatment should take time. Maybe a Healing Skill Check can be made instead of the Fortitude Save? So the PC still has to pass two successful Saves to be healed from a disease, but with a much better chance to make it?
The Cleric Spells on the other hand are instant.
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Here are my thoughts
- the Heal skill should not be limited to once per day - that's a lot of bookkeeping ("Okay, Thrag was healed, was Noxus?") that can be avoided.
- the Heal skill should take a Healing Kit, and take an hour, to not invalidate the Cleric - but a non-cleric can take the Heal skill and be useful
- it should be a scaling amount of hit points healed, based on the DC of the Heal roll, but should never be a full amount of healing, but it's worthwhile for characters to continue to invest ranks in Heal.
A non-magical field medic will be able to keep you from dying and even a surgon can only help your recovery along a great deal. But without magic, you can't make a wounded soldier battle-ready within 5 minutes.
A non-magical field medic will be able to keep you from dying and even a surgon can only help your recovery along a great deal. But without magic, you can't make a wounded soldier battle-ready within 5 minutes.
We can if we go back to treating HP as not representing actual health. That was how it was always meant to be.
That said, I still favor the surgery option for the big healing and the first aid for a lesser amount. One option would be to limit the number of uses of healer's kit. Another option would be that a character can only have up to half his HP restored by First Aid, restoring the remaining HP would require surgery. Of course, it could be set up such that only characters with over half their HP can benefit from first aid. Below that mark, you need to use surgery, magical, or natural healing.
Any of these options would allow for good out of combat healing, but make magical healing required for combat or treating major injuries.
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I thought about the idea of limiting the healer's kits as well but that doesn't truly solve anything. As the party gains more levels, they will have more money to spend. So they could just buy some more healer kits. Surgery is not a viable option in his game. It's supposed to have a Mideval feel to it. Surgery was more like a gutting than true surgery. I think the heal skill should be about first aid the the treatment of Disease and Poisons like it has been. Just add a minor healing ability to it. My suggestion would keep it minor. I also was thinking about it more and I think that you could only do so much for one person in the ways of first aid so if it was limited to 1/day/character or only allow the healing to go up to half of that character's HP limit would be some good ideas.
Surgery is not a viable option in his game. It's supposed to have a Mideval feel to it. Surgery was more like a gutting than true surgery.
That is not exactly true. There is evidence of early forms of plastic surgery (namely rhinoplasty) being performed in India in 600 BC. As of the 1st century BC, the removal of cataracts and many forms of basic surgery were being taught in formal schools.
Europe was farther behind on many of these developments due to a lot of knowledge being lost after the collapse of the Roman Empire (and the destruction of the Library at Alexandria). Much of this knowledge continued to exist in the Middle and Far East and made itself back to Eruope by the Renaissance.
Surgery was often combined with holistic medicines (including bleeding, the use of leeches, and other suc techniques being rediscovered today). I think a surgery option, with its corresponding rules for leaving the patient fatigued is a good option for when you don't have a cleric. However, making it a feat tied to the Heal skill might be the best option as the only way to get practical knowledge is by practicing on cadavers (something that could get a healer labeled a necromancer).
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Well I can't contest that. Surgery could be an option but do you really think a Fighter, even with enough training would make that a viable one? I would vote to just keep Heal as simple first aid and the treatment of disease and poison.
As for a solid HP amount you heal, that's a hard gamble. Character with less HP are gaining the most benefit. As for a percentage, that's a bad choice as well since it involves math and not everyone is good at that. Also, 10% is such a low amount of HP at earlier levels and at higher ones its too much.
I am beginning to agree the the Heal skill should be kept to first aid. Surgery should be done as a feat and capable of healing a larger amount.
First aid could be limited to a number of times per day equal to once per two levels. It is not a great solution, but it would scale with the character.
Another option would be to make first aid healing take 10 minutes per attempt and heal 1d6 plus the healer's Wisdom modifier. The first aid would be unlimited, but the time limit would make a lot of the first aid limited to minor patching up and end of the day/early morning healing.
Actually using either of the above method, the DC could be staged up as well for greater effect.
DC 15 - 1d6 + Wisdom modifier
DC 20 - 2d6 + Wisdom modifier
DC 25 - 3d6 + Wisdom modifier
DC 30 - 4d6 + Wisdom modifier
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That's pretty much what I'm trying to accomplish here. Since the Alpha doesn't have Cure Minor Wounds any more, and it was replaced by Stabilize, I thought that minor wound healing could be placed in the skill. This would also give players a reason to take this skill. Clerics wouldn't be the only ones that could provide healing, Clerics are just better at it. And if it's a d4/d6 of healing, it doesn't compete with that of a Cleric's spells. I don't think it should scale up and should always remain at a lower amount than that of Cure Light Wounds. That's why I think my solution is still the best. 1d4 + one point per 5 over DC 15. It scales better and at higher levels like 20th where this healing really has not effect would be viable. 1d20 + 23 Ranks(If Class)/12 Ranks(If CC) + Wis mod.
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Actually using either of the above method, the DC could be staged up as well for greater effect.
DC 15 - 1d6 + Wisdom modifier
DC 20 - 2d6 + Wisdom modifier
DC 25 - 3d6 + Wisdom modifier
DC 30 - 4d6 + Wisdom modifier
Hmm, I rather see INT as Stat modifier on Healing as it takes learning to know how to bandage/sew a wound.
Rather than a random amount, what about just saying that a Heal check heals you of the amount of hit points you would have recovered from a night's rest?Or, y'know, what about a percentage of total health? Say.... 10%? It's easy enough to calculate.
I see the Heal Skill used extensively in the lower levels to keep th party going one more encounter.
But 10% would amount to about 1hp in level 1 and this does not make the Heal skill viable in lower levels.
Another option would be to make first aid healing take 10 minutes per attempt and heal 1d6 plus the healer's Wisdom modifier. The first aid would be unlimited, but the time limit would make a lot of the first aid limited to minor patching up and end of the day/early morning healing.
Actually using either of the above method, the DC could be staged up as well for greater effect.
DC 15 - 1d6 + Wisdom modifier
DC 20 - 2d6 + Wisdom modifier
DC 25 - 3d6 + Wisdom modifier
DC 30 - 4d6 + Wisdom modifier
This isn't bad at all .However it should be Intelligence Mod not wisdom .
Given that the skill works off of Wisdom, I kept the same attribute. Also, it could be argued either way if you the Heal skill as including a lot of folk medicines.
Still, I could see Intelligence as a factor.
This is the idea I came up with to use the Heal skill. It's intended to complement the ability of party healers, and give them incentive to keep putting skill points in the Heal skill, since it will increase the effectiveness of their healing spells. The wording is not the greatest, but it will do for now, I hope
Heal Skill:
Magic is notoriously fickle and unpredictable. Nowhere is this more obvious than when a cleric is calling the power of his deity to heal a comrade. Even the most powerful cleric can be frustrated when his powerful healing spell has decidely less than full effect. However, clerics (or other casters who can cast cure spells) who are knowledgeable in the anatomy of their patients and adept at even the mundane caring of the sick and wounded can use this knowledge to focus their healing magic; when given enough time to study their patient.
Check:
On a succesful check, the caster can add a bonus to his d8 rolls for a cure spell on a single recipient of the spell. The resulting dice roll cannot be greater than the highest possible roll.
DC 25, add +2 to each d8 to a maximum roll of 8
DC 35, add +4 to each d8 to a maximum roll of 8
Example: 3rd level cleric, with 6 ranks in Heal, a Healer's kit and the self sufficient feat (total bonus, +10) has a patient with a sword wound to abdomen and spends a minute assessing her wound. At the end of the minute, he makes a Heal check, and rolls a 16, thus making the DC 25. He then casts "Cure Light Wounds" and rolls a d8. Basically, he takes whatever he rolled on this die and adds 2 to the roll, to a maximum of 8, adds his level to the spell as normal (3) and there's the damaged healed.
So if he rolled a "4", he would treat it like a "6". If he rolled a 6, 7, or 8, he would treat it like a "8".
If he cast "Cure moderate wounds" instead, he would roll two "d8's", adding 2 to each roll, to a maximum of 8 for each die. So if he rolled a 4 and an 8, he would treat it as a total roll of 14 (+3 for his level, so he would heal a total of 17 points of damage).
Action: The caster must do nothing but study the recipient of the cure spell he will cast for 1 full minute. If he is interupted in any way, he must restart his studying for another 1 minute. At the end of the minute, the cleric casts his spell and applies any benefit to the dice roll. The cleric may not take 10 on the skill roll.
Try Again: The caster can only attempt this skill once for any given cure spell. He may try again, but uses up a cure spell (which must be chosen before the skill attempt is made) for each attempt of the cure spell.
How about allowing it to heal 1d4 + 1/2 level (if trained) or 1d4 if untrained. Limit it allowing a character to be healed through the heal skill once a day or to no better than 1/2 hit points (along the lines of the Dragon Shaman's fast healing aura). Each use of the healing skill this way takes 1,5 or 10 minutes. I'd rather go with the "up to 1/2 hit points" for non-cleric games, personally, with 5 minutes between checks.
How about:
1. DC 15 restores hp equal to 1/2 your heal skill, DC 25 restores hp equal to heal skill
2. If you have a healing kit it takes a full round action, if not it takes a minute
3. You cannot increase the wounded persons hit points above half their maximum using this skill.
Essentially I find without this no-one takes heal skill. Once you get above level 3 the party just buys heaps of wands of clw so the effect of being able to recover hp out of combat already exists.
Plus it would be great to give this skill to some monsters - say a wyvern who 'licks its wound' getting back up to half hit points in say 20 minutes then comes hunting the party again.
I would like to see the Heal skill to be able to restore lost hp.
This would greatly improve its usefulness, and be a great boon to a party, particularly at low levels where there is little access to healing spells.
Currently, a DC 15 stabalizes a dying character, provides long-term care and treats wounds from caltrops, and the like.
Maybe a change like:
DC 10: Stabalize a dying character (does not restore hp)
DC 15: Treat wounds; restores 1d4 hp
DC 20: Treat injury; restores 1d6 hp
DC 30: Revive; brings a dead PC to -9 hp and stabalizes
I would add that you could not restore hp or revive a dead PC without the use of a healer's kit, and you can only attempt a heal check once per person, per encounter.
I am a fan of the healers kit (and I dig the art on the item card). Giving a mechanical use in the game increases its usefulness beyond a +2 to the check.
The usefulness or practicality of using the Heal skill in this manner will greatly depend on how the PRPG handles death and dying. My first thoughts (above) on the subject are based on using death and dying per the 3.5 rules.
Additionally, any change to the Heal skill that allows recovering of hp can cheapen the effect of the Heal spells. I would suggest a change to the heal spells so they don't heal random amounts:
CLW: heals 5 hp + 1 point per caster level (max +5)
CMW: heals 10 hp +1 point per caster level (max +10)
CSW: heals 15 hp +1 point per caster level (max +15)
CCW: Heals 20 hp +1 point per caster level (max +20)
This way, whatever healing is received from the Heal skill will always be below what you would get from magic, and the Heal check will seem more like quick first aid instead of actual healing or long-term care.
A third quick thought would be to make a feat that allows the Heal skill to be used to restore lost hp or to revive a dead or dying character as suggested by any of the above posters.
A feat may work well, similar to how the Track feat works with a Survival skill check.
Big jake I am taking all of that . very nice love it not to much nice change to heal and the heal skill conceder it rogued
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I would like to see the Heal skill to be able to restore lost hp. -snip-
Maybe a change like:
DC 10: Stabalize a dying character (does not restore hp)
DC 15: Treat wounds; restores 1d4 hp
DC 20: Treat injury; restores 1d6 hp
DC 30: Revive; brings a dead PC to -9 hp and stabalizesI would add that you could not restore hp or revive a dead PC without the use of a healer's kit, and you can only attempt a heal check once per person, per encounter.
I am a fan of the healers kit (and I dig the art on the item card). Giving a mechanical use in the game increases its usefulness beyond a +2 to the check.
Big Jake, first off:
I am a Fan of your Cure Spells proposal. I suggest that you post it on the "Combat/Magic" board.Some suggestions to your Heal Skill proposal:
- Revive the Dead: This should only be possible under certain circumstances, otherwise it diminishes Death in the Game and Resurrection Magics.
Maybe it can only be tried up to 10 rounds after the PC died?
- restores d4/d6 hps: This amount of hp might be ok in lower levels, but later on d4 or d6 is just not enough to make the skill useful.
A Fighter 1st with Con 14 has 12hp. 1d4 restores up to 1/4 of his hp. This is ok.
A Fighter 5th with Con 14 and avaerage dice rolls has 10 + 4x5.5 + 10= 42hp. 1d6 restores 1/7 of his hp.
A Fighter 10th with Con 14 and avaerage dice rolls has 10 + 9x5.5 + 20= 79hp. 1d6 restores 1/13 of his hp, which makes the skill uselessas a healing potion restores more hp and also stabilizes.
I propose that the hp restored scale so that Healing Stays useful AND helps the Cleric to save his Spells for other things than Haling.
I am still in favor of this:
DC 15: Regain 1d8 hps. For every 5 points over the DC you regain another d8 hps (eg. a result of 23 would restore 2d8hps). First Aid is only usable once per encounter once per PC and takes 10minutes.
A 10th level PC with maxed out Healing, Skill Focus Healing and a MW Healers Kit can restore 13 (ranks) + 3 (Int. Bonus) + 3 (skill focus) + 2 (MW Healers Kit) +10 (take 10) = 31 which means 4d8 hps. That is an average of 18hp.
This saves the Cleric 1 cure moderate wounds 2d8+10= 19 on average.
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I started a similar thread for this, but this one has more momentum so... I'm opposed to healing being an ability for combat I think it should be scaleable and never quite as good as healing magic, I like the proposed ten minute time frame and once per encounter (or incident of injury if hurt in non-encounters like falling or traps).
About revivification, I agree it should be something at a very high dc 30-40 that has to be done as a full round action within 10 rounds of a character dying and success should bring them to -9 with (and this is my key point) re-rolls possible as long as the dead character has been dead less than 10 rounds. I like the idea of someone taking time out of combat to revive a character and not giving up just cause it failed the first few rolls. very cinematic
Thanks for the support, everyone.
I like all the ideas that have been brought up, and I'm really no expert to say which options are the best. For me and the type of game I tend to run, I think even my suggestions are kinda high-powered.
I was condering the DC 15 to heal only 1 point and a DC 20 to heal 1d4. The low points might make the Heal check pointless though, but having it too high infringes on healing magic.
It's hard to say how far to push this one. Hopefully Jason sees our input and can see a clear design match for some of it to fit in the PRPG.
I whole-heartedly agree that any skill check used to revive a dead PC should have very specific limitations, possibly even left as a judgement call by the DM.
... very cinematic.
To show how I've used the above mechanic in my games:
During World Wide D&D Game Day 2005, the pre-generated characters ran out of heal spells, and they had not yet discovered the heal potions in the adventure. One PC fell to -1. The party cleric rolled a heal check, I don't recall the actual result, but I gave a d4 hp back to the fallen PC, bringing him back to +1, allowing the player to finish the game day scenario. It was fun. It didn't hurt play.
Way back in 1986 I was playing a fighter variant from Best of Dragon 2 called Duh Jock. It was basically a joke on the fighter type, but I role played him well enough that my DM allowed the following actions:
The party came under attack of a bunch of "lobbers" hurling stones at us in a mountain pass. The party cavalier got seriously hurt, and was eventually killed in the attack. In a panic I say:
I try to give him a healing potion!
DM: You can't... he's dead.
I try to bind his wounds!
DM: You can't... he's not bleeding... he's not even breathing.
I... I... I GIVE HIM CPR!
The DM stopped and thought about that.
DM: Well, you are a jock, maybe you'd know something like that.
He rolled his dice and decided it worked.
So... I can see some good, valid, understandable situations where it would make sense to allow a Heal check to revive a PC. I'm no game developer that could come up with a good solid, simple, mechanic that would express it as such.
Some suggestions to your Heal Skill proposal...
All great ideas. I admit that my numbers are on the low side. And if Jason and crew want to make something similar to the "shrug off" effect in 4e, perhaps bigger is better.
I do like the healing affect of the turn check. Turning has been the only mechanic I've pretty much ignored while playing clerics. I'd rather bash in a skeleton's skull instead of being in the background holding them at bay for others to bash. Consequently, I dumped my low stat into charisma for my past two clerics and just didn't worry about how it impacted my turning check. I wouldn't do that with a PRPG cleric.
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Some suggestions to your Heal Skill proposal...All great ideas. I admit that my numbers are on the low side. And if Jason and crew want to make something similar to the "shrug off" effect in 4e, perhaps bigger is better.
I do like the healing affect of the turn check. Turning has been the only mechanic I've pretty much ignored while playing clerics. I'd rather bash in a skeleton's skull instead of being in the background holding them at bay for others to bash. Consequently, I dumped my low stat into charisma for my past two clerics and just didn't worry about how it impacted my turning check. I wouldn't do that with a PRPG cleric.
I like the idea to use Turning for Healing too.
What I do NOT want for PFRPG is thata) Healing is too plentiful and takes away the fear of Death from the Players. But more sources of Healing may help to give a party without a cleric a better chance of survival and the Cleric of a party more non cure spells to cast.
b) The mechanics have no good Fluff explanation. I can explain the Healing Skill: You patch the PC up after the fight. I can eplain Healing through turning: The Cleric channels the might of his good as positive energy. But, and that is NOT a 4th edition rant, just an example, I have problems explaining the "Healing Surge" mechanic in Fluff terms.
But i think that both points are cared well for by the Paizonians and us playtesters.
What I do NOT want for PFRPG is that
a) Healing is too plentiful and takes away the fear of Death from the Players. But more sources of Healing may help to give a party without a cleric a better chance of survival and the Cleric of a party more non cure spells to cast.b) The mechanics have no good Fluff explanation. I can explain the Healing Skill: You patch the PC up after the fight. I can eplain Healing through turning: The Cleric channels the might of his good as positive energy. But, and that is NOT a 4th edition rant, just an example, I have problems explaining the "Healing Surge" mechanic in Fluff terms.
But i think that both points are cared well for by the Paizonians and us playtesters.
Yeah, I agree on both points
I just saw this from Jason on another thread:
4. These rules were changed for the reasons presented on page 44. We needed to give the cleric the ability to actually cast his spells, instead of just converting them in to healing.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Going off the design intentions of the cleric, and some of the discussion in this thread, using a Heal check to do some minor healing would free up his spell casting.
From this viewpoint, maybe using the Heal skill to restore hp or revive a recently killed PC (in certain circumstances) could be a class feature for the cleric, like trapfinding for the rogue. But that would again limit healing to just the cleric.
Possibly better, the cleric would recieve a free feat (like the ranger receives track) that allows the heal skill to restore hp in some manner. That way the cleric still gets it for free, but other PCs have the chance to take the feat as well.
For those that don't take the feat, they would still be able to make a heal check to stabalize a dying PC, but would not restore hp.
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Looking over the Other WotC books, I remember that there was a skill trick that allows for you to heal a character that you stabilized. It only healed 1d6 so if we were to have the heal skill actually heal, a d6 would work for me. As for the exacty DC's and such, look above and you will get a good idea.