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Recently, I came across a handful of posts here that denounce how venomous posters are here against anyone in favor of 4e. I actually left WotC's web boards because expressing my concerns about 4e - the rules, not 4e in particular, were being shot down left and right by my peers who told me to either get on board or move the hell off. (Paraphrasing here.)
Now, I know that these boards are much friendlier to those unhappy with 4e in general (or specific rule changes contained within). But I've yet to see these boards become overly hostile to people who are interested in 4e. In fact, I like the apparent neutrality of these boards over Gleemax or ENWorld.
You and I know that 4e is going to happen. At this point, I have absolutely no desire to jump on the 4e wagon. I'm happy with 3.5 and the house rules we've imposed. But that's just me and mine. If you are happy for 4e, then good for you. When 5e comes around, we'll probably be hit with the same sort of dissension.
But hostile?
I mean, I've seen hostility directed at WotC by 3.5 loyalists . . . but that's not the same as hostility directed at people who are excited (or open-minded) about 4e. I've yet to see the latter.
Am I missing something here?
I doubt that you're missing anything. Paizo is a pretty friendly site compared to most.
I mean, I've seen hostility directed at WotC by 3.5 loyalists . . . but that's not the same as hostility directed at people who are excited (or open-minded) about 4e. I've yet to see the latter.Am I missing something here?
There is nothing to miss. Move on.
Recently, I came across a handful of posts here that denounce how venomous posters are here against anyone in favor of 4e. [snip] Am I missing something here?Nope. A concern troll showed up and managed to get everyone who said things he didn't like moderated. Welcome to the friendly internet.
I must have misunderstood. I thought Lisa and the rest of Paizo just got tired of the name-calling and put a stop to it. Still a lot of bickering going on, just insults have toned down. If it was really the influence of that one poster who changed everything, I'll have to ask him to come back and post a thread saying that if they don't name a demigod or mountain range in Golarion after me, he won't buy their products. How about it Paizo, Daeglin, Demigod of Good Goblin Dentition?
name a demigod or mountain range in Golarion after me
Be careful about what you wish for, it might come true:
One of the funny things from Legend of the Five Rings. In Rokugan, what the Emperor says is law - not just down on earth, but in the Celestial Heavens as well. What he says is reality.
Now, there was one Emperor, Hantei XIV the Steel Crysanthemum, who was a real bastard. When someone annoyed him (and he was easily annoyed), he proclaimed the guy a god. Sounds good? Well, being the God of Horse Manure doesn't sound so nice, does it? Or the Good of Snot? And those are the nicer ones.
And the poor guys became those gods. The normal afterlife was not for them, they had to take their place as gods in the Celestial Order.
So when you ask too "nicely" about that god named after you, take care lest it becomes Daeglin, God of Goblin Incontinence or God of Too Small Goblin Genitals. Or something like that ;-P
Be careful about what you wish for, it might come true:
One of the funny things from Legend of the Five Rings. In Rokugan, what the Emperor says is law - not just down on earth, but in the Celestial Heavens as well. What he says is reality.
Now, there was one Emperor, Hantei XIV the Steel Crysanthemum, who was a real bastard. When someone annoyed him (and he was easily annoyed), he proclaimed the guy a god. Sounds good? Well, being the God of Horse Manure doesn't sound so nice, does it? Or the Good of Snot? And those are the nicer ones.
And the poor guys became those gods. The normal afterlife was not for them, they had to take their place as gods in the Celestial Order.
So when you ask too "nicely" about that god named after you, take care lest it becomes Daeglin, God of Goblin Incontinence or God of Too Small Goblin Genitals. Or something like that ;-P
Fortunately, the mysterious drive-by poster was not the Emperor. :)
Besides, after thinking about it, I think I'd prefer a dungeon - Daeglin's Delve perhaps.
I haven't seen much of the talked about hostility toward pro 4e people either... although to be honest I tend to stay away from threads on the 4e forum (other then the ones where Paizo is specifically asking for our opinions) because I am not planning on buying 4e, and thus reading threads about it is largely a waste of my time (note that I harbor no ill will toward those who want to play that game, it is just not for me or my gaming style).
On those threads that I do read, I see a lot of pro 4e people complaining about shotty treatment, but little evidence of 3.5er abuse towards them on those threads at least.
I did see a couple of threads started by Razz which were a bit extreem in the anti-4e sentiment, and could see people being insulted by his posts... but lets face it, it has been painfully obvious for years that he isn't quite dealing from a full deck, and honestly I didn't think anybody took him too seriously anymore...
Based upon the treatment of pro 3.5ers who post (or try to) on certain other forums (WotC, Enworld), even if there is some negative posting toward 4e people on this board (which I would not condone, I prefer peaceful discusions, and as stated I haven't seen that much of it), I think they have a lot of nerve complaining about it as much as they do... it makes them sound like schoolyard bullies that can dish it out, but can't take it, instead running and crying to the teacher the instant a victim starts to try to fight back.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Be careful about what you wish for, it might come true:
One of the funny things from Legend of the Five Rings. In Rokugan, what the Emperor says is law - not just down on earth, but in the Celestial Heavens as well. What he says is reality.
Now, there was one Emperor, Hantei XIV the Steel Crysanthemum, who was a real bastard. When someone annoyed him (and he was easily annoyed), he proclaimed the guy a god. Sounds good? Well, being the God of Horse Manure doesn't sound so nice, does it? Or the Good of Snot? And those are the nicer ones.
And the poor guys became those gods. The normal afterlife was not for them, they had to take their place as gods in the Celestial Order.
So when you ask too "nicely" about that god named after you, take care lest it becomes Daeglin, God of Goblin Incontinence or God of Too Small Goblin Genitals. Or something like that ;-P
Fortunately, the mysterious drive-by poster was not the Emperor. :)
Besides, after thinking about it, I think I'd prefer a dungeon - Daeglin's Delve perhaps.
I'd settle for an NPC who plays a relatively insignificant role in an adventure. If I were a goblin, I'd settle for not being the goblin guarding the front entrance to the cave complex.
Am I missing something here?
I don't think so. But then again, I've already been proven "wrong" about that.
The reality, I think, is that by Lisa Stevens own admission, most Paizo staffers didn't read the 4th Edition forums. So, they had to take the word of people who complained to them. I am guessing, these complaints came from people who were projecting a lot of expectations into other peoples posts.
The squeaky wheel and all. I hate it every time I see it.
I witnessed some people on this forum kidney-punching a homeless man that pre-ordered 4th edition. FACT.
From what I have recall they weren't insults at the other people in the thread, but general insults at people who might like the new edition.
It felt just like when I perceived as careless comments thrown at 3.5 by the 4th edition designers from the other side of the fence.
CEO
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Am I missing something here?I don't think so. But then again, I've already been proven "wrong" about that.
The reality, I think, is that by Lisa Stevens own admission, most Paizo staffers didn't read the 4th Edition forums. So, they had to take the word of people who complained to them. I am guessing, these complaints came from people who were projecting a lot of expectations into other peoples posts.
The squeaky wheel and all. I hate it every time I see it.
Disenchanter:
Just to be clear, I said most of my staff doesn't read the 4e forums. However, there are a number of us who try to keep up with being said. So any decisions weren't made with hearsay, but rather from actual observations on those messageboards. Just because much of the staff steers clear, doesn't mean that we all do. And we wouldn't make decisions like moderating because of one squeaky wheel. Like someone said in that thread, it was more like the straw that broke the camel's back.
-Lisa
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OK, so there were a couple of anti-posts that were a bit stupid, but I'd have to agree that in the vast majority the comments were anti the product and constructively so. I agree with the comment above, one random poster who didn't like the fact that some people don't want 4th Ed. has had a huge effect. It's felt almost like blasphemy to say otherwise since.
Having said that I don't have a problem with moderation of aggressive comments to keep the boards civil. It's a shame if it has to happen but they are Paizo's boards so they can and should do that if they believe it makes sense and protects their brand.
Am I missing something here?I don't think so. But then again, I've already been proven "wrong" about that.
The reality, I think, is that by Lisa Stevens own admission, most Paizo staffers didn't read the 4th Edition forums. So, they had to take the word of people who complained to them. I am guessing, these complaints came from people who were projecting a lot of expectations into other peoples posts.
The squeaky wheel and all. I hate it every time I see it.
Disenchanter:
Just to be clear, I said most of my staff doesn't read the 4e forums. However, there are a number of us who try to keep up with being said. So any decisions weren't made with hearsay, but rather from actual observations on those messageboards. Just because much of the staff steers clear, doesn't mean that we all do. And we wouldn't make decisions like moderating because of one squeaky wheel. Like someone said in that thread, it was more like the straw that broke the camel's back.
-Lisa
Emphasis is mine.
I am starting to get the impression that people are expecting a certain stance from me. So much so, that they either don't read my posts, or assume I am lying. I am not trying to pin you down on that point Lisa.
But these are the things I was fearing. I am (pretty well likely) getting the "special treatment" because of others. And people seem to be prejudice (a bit strong of a word, but it fits well) against my posts before I make them since I liked the way the 4th Edition forums were.
But to your point, I wasn't trying to claim foul. I was trying to put some logic to it, since I never saw things as bad as you, apparently, did. I thought the 4th Edition forums were good. Yes, things were really nasty at first, but I thought things had gotten real civil lately. I expected it to be pretty smooth sailing until the release.
But, clearly, my opinion is wrong. Others saw things differently than me.
And I am starting to diverge further from the topic than I should...
Am I missing something here?
nope. it is the same old same old as on any message board.
a few bitter curmudgeonsa few drama queens
a few attention whores
a few fanbois and gals
etc...
But, clearly, my opinion is wrong.
QFT
The squeaky wheel and all. I hate it every time I see it.
Probably the most humorous, in a bad sort of way, thing I percieved from the whole situation was this. A random flyby-night (extremely likely) troll posts a comment about how bad the Paizo boards are and how they will never buy anything (which they probably never had any intention anyway), and Paizo staff and such all respond with, "Yes, we are sorry, we should have done better, please forgive us." Then when current paying customers who have a long standing with the company begin complaining about maybe things are going to far, they get comments from staff and people associated with them to the effect of, "Hey, if you don't like it, you can get yourself gone." Funny, for some reason, I would think those two stances should be the same in both cases at worst or reversed at best.
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Am I missing something here?nope. it is the same old same old as on any message board.
a few bitter curmudgeons
a few drama queens
a few attention whores
a few fanbois and gals
etc...
Ooh! Ooh! Can I be a 'bitter curmudgeon'? Please!?! Or maybe an 'attention whore' if all the 'curmudgeon' spots are taken.
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Am I missing something here?I don't think so. But then again, I've already been proven "wrong" about that.
The reality, I think, is that by Lisa Stevens own admission, most Paizo staffers didn't read the 4th Edition forums. So, they had to take the word of people who complained to them. I am guessing, these complaints came from people who were projecting a lot of expectations into other peoples posts.
The squeaky wheel and all. I hate it every time I see it.
Disenchanter:
Just to be clear, I said most of my staff doesn't read the 4e forums. However, there are a number of us who try to keep up with being said. So any decisions weren't made with hearsay, but rather from actual observations on those messageboards. Just because much of the staff steers clear, doesn't mean that we all do. And we wouldn't make decisions like moderating because of one squeaky wheel. Like someone said in that thread, it was more like the straw that broke the camel's back.
-Lisa
Emphasis is mine.
I am starting to get the impression that people are expecting a certain stance from me. So much so, that they either don't read my posts, or assume I am lying. I am not trying to pin you down on that point Lisa.
But these are the things I was fearing. I am (pretty well likely) getting the "special treatment" because of others. And people seem to be prejudice (a bit strong of a word, but it fits well) against my posts before I make them since I liked the way the 4th Edition forums were.
But to your point, I wasn't trying to claim foul. I was trying to put some logic to it, since I never saw things as bad as you, apparently, did. I thought the 4th Edition forums were good. Yes, things were really nasty at first, but I thought things had gotten real civil lately. I expected it to be pretty smooth sailing until the release.
But, clearly, my opinion is wrong. Others saw things differently than...
You wrote: The reality, I think, is that by Lisa Stevens own admission, most Paizo staffers didn't read the 4th Edition forums. So, they had to take the word of people who complained to them. I am guessing, these complaints came from people who were projecting a lot of expectations into other peoples posts.
What you emphasized was not the only thing you wrote - (see above)and not the only thing that had to be answered by Lisa - you complained that the evaluation of the 4th edition forums was made by hearsay - that was, what Lisa denied. I have nothing against your posts and opinions, but I really think that you should be ready to receive the same treatment that you give. If you point out the faults of others they will point out yours - don't be insulted by that.
OK, so there were a couple of anti-posts that were a bit stupid, but I'd have to agree that in the vast majority the comments were anti the product and constructively so.
If I remember correctly there were just a few posts that actually said that stuff, the other problem I had was that it seemed few people who liked 3.5 disagreed with that poster. In fact, most of the time, it seemed as if other posters looked at that anti-post and just nodded thier heads in agreement (If only at the general idea of the post and not the offensive statements).
That would make it seem that a lot bigger part of the forums was being attacking when there only a few posters saying these things. At least that is how I remember it, hopefully correctly.
You wrote: The reality, I think, is that by Lisa Stevens own admission, most Paizo staffers didn't read the 4th Edition forums. So, they had to take the word of people who complained to them. I am guessing, these complaints came from people who were projecting a lot of expectations into other peoples posts.
What you emphasized was not the only thing you wrote - (see above)and not the only thing that had to be answered by Lisa - you complained that the evaluation of the 4th edition forums was made by hearsay - that was, what Lisa denied. I have nothing against your posts and opinions, but I really think that you should be ready to receive the same treatment that you give. If you point out the faults of others they will point out yours - don't be insulted by that.
I believe you are proving my point quiet well.
Lisa Stevens wrote: Just to be clear, I said most of my staff doesn't read the 4e forums.
Now why would she need to be clear about that, when it was exactly what I wrote?
Beyond that, you are assuming I was complaining, despite me stating "But to your point, I wasn't trying to claim foul."
And further, you assume I am insulted.
If that isn't "projecting a lot of expectations into other peoples posts," I can't think of a better example.
Lisa Stevens wrote: Just to be clear, I said most of my staff doesn't read the 4e forums.
Now why would she need to be clear about that, when it was exactly what I wrote?
Repetition is a great tool for making people remember things?
Repetition is a great tool for making people remember things?Lisa Stevens wrote: Just to be clear, I said most of my staff doesn't read the 4e forums.
Now why would she need to be clear about that, when it was exactly what I wrote?
The "just to be clear" refers to the whole paragraph, not just the first sentence. The first sentence establishes that Lisa agrees what you said is true, and the rest of the paragraph adds in her take on what she thinks got missed when you presented it.
The "just to be clear" refers to the whole paragraph, not just the first sentence. The first sentence establishes that Lisa agrees what you said is true, and the rest of the paragraph adds in her take on what she thinks got missed when you presented it.
Now that could be it. But if so, I would think the first sentence would be something like "Just to be clear, I did say most of my staff doesn't read the 4e forums."
But it could very well be a confusion based on different communication styles.
But it could very well be a confusion based on different communication styles.
That would be my take, for what it's worth. Communicating through text only tends to get snarled up a lot.
Even if you were only gone a day... you have to let me sing it...
Welcome back, your dreams were your ticket out.
Welcome back, to that same old place that you laughed about.
Well the names have all changed since you hung around,
But those dreams have remained and they're turned around.
Who'd have thought they'd lead ya (Who'd have thought they'd lead ya)
Back here where we need ya (Here where we need ya)
Yeah we tease him a lot 'cause we've hot him on the spot, welcome back,
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.
Welcome back, we always could spot a friend
Welcome back, and I smile when I think how you must have been
And I know what a scene you were learning in
Was there something that made you come back again
And what could ever lead ya (what could ever lead ya)...
Yeah, we tease him a lot (welcome back, welcome back)
'Cause we've got him on the spot (welcome back, welcome back)
Yeah, we tease him a lot 'cause we've got him on the spot
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back
Welcome back
name a demigod or mountain range in Golarion after meBe careful about what you wish for, it might come true:
One of the funny things from Legend of the Five Rings. In Rokugan, what the Emperor says is law - not just down on earth, but in the Celestial Heavens as well. What he says is reality.
Now, there was one Emperor, Hantei XIV the Steel Crysanthemum, who was a real bastard. When someone annoyed him (and he was easily annoyed), he proclaimed the guy a god. Sounds good? Well, being the God of Horse Manure doesn't sound so nice, does it? Or the Good of Snot? And those are the nicer ones.
And the poor guys became those gods. The normal afterlife was not for them, they had to take their place as gods in the Celestial Order.
So when you ask too "nicely" about that god named after you, take care lest it becomes Daeglin, God of Goblin Incontinence or God of Too Small Goblin Genitals. Or something like that ;-P
::HUGS Kruelaid:: Thank you for being another L5R fan on here. I have loved the series ever since second edition, but I find the elitism that clogs their boards to be almost as cloying as White Wolf(check a few posts down for that one). The Steel Chrysanthemum was a holy terror, and an excellent character.
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You wrote: The reality, I think, is that by Lisa Stevens own admission, most Paizo staffers didn't read the 4th Edition forums. So, they had to take the word of people who complained to them. I am guessing, these complaints came from people who were projecting a lot of expectations into other peoples posts.
What you emphasized was not the only thing you wrote - (see above)and not the only thing that had to be answered by Lisa - you complained that the evaluation of the 4th edition forums was made by hearsay - that was, what Lisa denied. I have nothing against your posts and opinions, but I really think that you should be ready to receive the same treatment that you give. If you point out the faults of others they will point out yours - don't be insulted by that.
I believe you are proving my point quiet well.
Lisa Stevens wrote: Just to be clear, I said most of my staffdoesn't read the 4e forums.
Now why would she need to be clear about that, when it was exactly what I wrote?
-I did't deny your point I just tried to point out that this was not the only point you made and (as far as I read it)Lisa wasn't mainly reacting to this point.
Beyond that, you are assuming I was complaining, despite me stating "But to your point, I wasn't trying to claim foul."
If I misinterpreted, I'm sorry I'm quite aware that I sometimes miss finer points (in this case I thought complaining was a minor phrase compared to claiming foul) as english isn't my native tongue. I sincerely apologize.
And further, you assume I am insulted.
If that isn't "projecting a lot of expectations into other peoples posts," I can't think of a better example.
Maybe a misinterpretation again, but some of your later posts (mainly this one and your thread that implied paizo is insulting their customer base) sounded mighty bitter to me and - as far as I read some of the reactions of the posters not only to me. Sorry if I don't grasp the meaning of some of your posts if they are neither comlpaints nor reactions to you feeling insulted. To me they just sounded like that.
One of the greatest of all TV theme songs...Ooh, ooh! Mr. Kotter! Mr. Kotter!
It's up everybody's nose with a rubber hose day, sweathogs!
It's up everybody's nose with a rubber hose day, sweathogs!One of the greatest of all TV theme songs...Ooh, ooh! Mr. Kotter! Mr. Kotter!
I have the Welcome Back Kotter boardgame from the 70's. If you win it you take this green plastic hose segment, hold it up, and shout, "Up your nose with a rubber hose!"
Anybody remember what the name Horseshack means?
"The sheep are dying."
Ron Palillo was doing that throaty laugh for six months on the show before he realized he'd lifted it accidentally from his father who died of TB or something. He was on the set doing the laugh and he remembered his father laughing like that in the hospital.
Sobering moment, eh wot?
I nominate The Jade for the Cliff Claven of these boards. I hereby demand that all his future posts begin with, "It's a little known fact..."
Now... who could be his personal Carla?
:P
::HUGS Kruelaid:: Thank you for being another L5R fan on here.
(A lot of stuff about the great L5R roleplaying game)
I hope he'll appreciate that hug. If he does, send him over to me so he can thank me for it.
I have loved the series ever since second edition, but I find the elitism that clogs their boards to be almost as cloying as White Wolf(check a few posts down for that one).
Haven't been there, except to look up one or two things (the fate of Tutori III). Haven't noticed any elitism, but that doesn't say anything.
I was on the WW boards a little bit, and the feedback I got wasn't that great.
But I've seen worse then that on other places.
WHOOPS! Looks like I hugged the wrong guy. Well, I'm sure Kruelaid could use some hugs in any case, but here is the ::HUG:: that was meant to be given to you, Kae.
In terms of the l5r elitism, it lived and died when the perhaps(and I do mean that word LITERALLY, as I do NOT want to start an argument over this) ill-advised d20/R&K run of Legend of the Five Rings. Insults at WOTC and D&D in general abounded, and many people were made to feel uncomfortable. If people are complaining about the rather light moderation that occurred here a few days ago, they would have had a coronary over some of the moderation in response to that level of nastiness.
WHOOPS! Looks like I hugged the wrong guy.
You know, that can get you - and those guys - into serious trouble ;-)
::HUG:: that was meant to be given to you, Kae.
Thanks, I always appreciate being hugged by nearly naked dark skinned girls with long hair ;-)
In terms of the l5r elitism, it lived and died when the perhaps(and I do mean that word LITERALLY, as I do NOT want to start an argument over this) ill-advised d20/R&K run of Legend of the Five Rings.
I don't quite get that - they didn't even abandon L5R's own ruleset during those days.
I thought that was a great idea.
And I don't think it was ill-advised - without that, I might never have gotten into L5R!
And I don't think it was ill-advised - without that, I might never have gotten into L5R!
But many do. Myself included. So I totaly understand what Freehold DM is talking about, although I never visited their forums.
I nominate The Jade for the Cliff Claven of these boards. I hereby demand that all his future posts begin with, "It's a little known fact..."
Now... who could be his personal Carla?
:P
But... Cliff Clavin was the bar know-it-all who was wrong about everything. (Regrettably I know John Ratzenberger trivia as well--what am I?)
It's a little known fact that... Cliff Clavin was the bar know-it-all who was wrong about everything. (Regrettably I know John Ratzenberger trivia as well--what am I?)I nominate The Jade for the Cliff Claven of these boards. I hereby demand that all his future posts begin with, "It's a little known fact..."
Now... who could be his personal Carla?
:P
Fixed it for you. ;)
Oh, and I didn't remember him being wrong about everything. I always got the impression his bits of trivia were accurate just unimportant and completely irrelevant. OK. Now I'm starting to sound like I'm saying YOU'RE posts are unimportant and completely irrelevant and that's not true at all. :| Ah, you know what I mean, big guy.
WHOOPS! Looks like I hugged the wrong guy. Well, I'm sure Kruelaid could use some hugs in any case, but here is the ::HUG:: that was meant to be given to you, Kae.
It was great. I feel much better.
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But... Cliff Clavin was the bar know-it-all who was wrong about everything. (Regrettably I know John Ratzenberger trivia as well--what am I?)I nominate The Jade for the Cliff Claven of these boards. I hereby demand that all his future posts begin with, "It's a little known fact..."
Now... who could be his personal Carla?
:P
Did you know John Ratzenberger was a rebel soldier in Empire Strikes Back?
I have the action figure to prove it.Hey...maybe I should custom it up to be a postal carrier with highwaters!
Fixed it for you. ;)
Oh, and I didn't remember him being wrong about everything. I always got the impression his bits of trivia were accurate just unimportant and completely irrelevant. OK. Now I'm starting to sound like I'm saying YOU'RE posts are unimportant and completely irrelevant and that's not true at all. :| Ah, you know what I mean, big guy.
Trivia is trivial. It's all built into the name. ;)
Cliff was wrong about everything. He'd enter a conversation demonstrating a truly wide base of knowledge, but the more he talked the more you realized his head was full of facts that, though richly fleshed out, were all misremembered or made up. This eventually proved him an utter loon because it was all so incredibly innaccurate.
Did you know John Ratzenberger was a rebel soldier in Empire Strikes Back?
I have the action figure to prove it.
Hey...maybe I should custom it up to be a postal carrier with highwaters!
Major Derlin! Lisa and Vic paid Ratz a hundred grand to will his body to them upon death, upon which they will have him stuffed and mounted in his old Star Wars uniform (which they likely already own).
He appeared in a lot of big films in small parts. Superman, Superman 2, Outlands and many mo'. I remember his showing up on that epic fantasy TV show Wizards and Warriors. That show (only 8 episodes) had Jeff Conaway prancing around as prince Erik Greystone. Campy stuff but Bill Bixby directed, so it has a certain sense of fun.
Now that's useless knowledge!
Sometimes I like to imagine other Cheers stars in the lead role of Natural Born Killers.
John Ratzenberger just doesn't work for me though. Dianne Chambers--now there's a win! I just want her to say once...."do you believe in fate?"
Okay, but only if Phil (Carla's/Rhea's real life dad) can play Mickey Knox.
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Okay, but only if Phil (Carla's/Rhea's real life dad) can play Mickey Knox.Sometimes I like to imagine other Cheers stars in the lead role of Natural Born Killers.
John Ratzenberger just doesn't work for me though. Dianne Chambers--now there's a win! I just want her to say once...."do you believe in fate?"
I like Tina Yothers for Mallory Knox.
Fixed it for you. ;)
Oh, and I didn't remember him being wrong about everything. I always got the impression his bits of trivia were accurate just unimportant and completely irrelevant. OK. Now I'm starting to sound like I'm saying YOU'RE posts are unimportant and completely irrelevant and that's not true at all. :| Ah, you know what I mean, big guy.
Trivia is trivial. It's all built into the name. ;)
Cliff was wrong about everything. He'd enter a conversation demonstrating a truly wide base of knowledge, but the more he talked the more you realized his head was full of facts that, though richly fleshed out, were all misremembered or made up. This eventually proved him an utter loon because it was all so incredibly innaccurate.
I don't know... he did very well on Jepardy, amassing a huge amount of money, before lossing it all on the final Jepardy question (which was IIRC about the US Postal Service or something else that he should have known).
I don't know... he did very well on Jepardy, amassing a huge amount of money, before lossing it all on the final Jepardy question (which was IIRC about the US Postal Service or something else that he should have known).Fixed it for you. ;)
Oh, and I didn't remember him being wrong about everything. I always got the impression his bits of trivia were accurate just unimportant and completely irrelevant. OK. Now I'm starting to sound like I'm saying YOU'RE posts are unimportant and completely irrelevant and that's not true at all. :| Ah, you know what I mean, big guy.
Trivia is trivial. It's all built into the name. ;)
Cliff was wrong about everything. He'd enter a conversation demonstrating a truly wide base of knowledge, but the more he talked the more you realized his head was full of facts that, though richly fleshed out, were all misremembered or made up. This eventually proved him an utter loon because it was all so incredibly innaccurate.
That show went against the grain of typical Cliffdom. It kind of had to because there's no way the actual Cliff Clavin could win a game of Jeopardy. What's more... the entire episode was lifted from A Boy Named Charlie Brown where Charley gets to the final two of a spelling bee and blanks on the word beagle.
To the OP: In all fairness, the worst I saw it get was a little name calling and some petty bickering. There were no flame wars. There were no death threats. Now I just see us getting drowned in the noxious funk of the "can't we all just get along crowd." Peace must be the only thing out there as bad as war.
Never listen a person with no strong convictions, their just regurgitating what someone else said often as not.