Has anyone playing in the Realms reached this point of the STAP? I'm not there yet, but I'm trying to lay the groundwork early. How did you guys bring Iggwilv into the Realms? Page 140 of the PGtF says that the Shadow Plane connects Toril to other material worlds, Oerth included. Did anyone just bring her through a portal? Did anyone just have her be from Toril, and if so, where?
Also, I know this is in numerous other threads but can we expect any more conversion notes? Even if it was in the form of a post by Mr. Boyd that would be sweet.
Hey, as far as conversion notes go I'm as in the dark as you are but I think the general statement is "Whenever we have time to write it" as there's not monetary gain for the company I think it falls low on the priority list. Though I do agree it'd be nice to have.
Iggwilv in the Realms isn't that hard and your portal idea would be a good way to do it. The precedent is already there as Graz'zt, a Greyhawk demon lord and Iggwilv's former lover tried to dethrone Waukeen and have one of his daughters supplant the diety's portfolio, so the pressence on Toril has already been established. the Demonomicon article on Graz'zt in the Online Dragon may be helpful to you.
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Correct me if Im wrong, but when the PC's encounter Iggwilv for the first time she is located in the Greywastes of Hades. I had always assumed that the planes from other material worlds like Toril were the same. Im not really familiar with the whole planes thing. So Toril would be its own material plane and Oerth was too. But the Abyss or plane of shadow was shared by all. If that makes any sense.
Iggwilv in the Realms isn't that hard and your portal idea would be a good way to do it. The precedent is already there as Graz'zt, a Greyhawk demon lord and Iggwilv's former lover tried to dethrone Waukeen and have one of his daughters supplant the diety's portfolio, so the presence on Toril has already been established. the Demonomicon article on Graz'zt in the Online Dragon may be helpful to you.
I was hoping to tie the two together, thanks for the help.
Correct me if Im wrong, but when the PC's encounter Iggwilv for the first time she is located in the Greywastes of Hades. I had always assumed that the planes from other material worlds like Toril were the same. Im not really familiar with the whole planes thing. So Toril would be its own material plane and Oerth was too. But the Abyss or plane of shadow was shared by all. If that makes any sense.
The cosmology of the Realms is actually different than the Great Wheel, but the Shadow Plane provides a means of reaching other Material Planes. I knew that she could get to Toril (my players are old enough to remember the Wizards Three, and they did it) but I didn't know how other people had handled her. You are correct about the first encounter with her being in Hades, but I wanted to allude to her (and Baba Yaga) before that encounter so that the PC's wouldn't instantly think that I put her in "just because she was in the adventure."
The OP's point, I think though, is that he'd like to foreshadow the Witch-Queen's involvement in the storyline, which means making references to her earlier on before the PCs meet her.
An idea might be to add a room or two to a dungeon, or have them stumble on to some ruins on the isle of dread, each one being a forgotten temple or alter to Iggwilv from when Graz'zt was making plays for the Forgotten Realms, Or even make the shrines to Iggwilv AND Graz'zt. Most players would take note of Iggwilv but assume Graz'zt is a major player, thus you have foreshadowing and a red herring!
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I think there might be several options on this.
The first would be to just take a wizard from the FR that is similar in power and might have similar motivations as the witch-queen.
I'm not that familar with the FR but as there are so many powerful NPCs around, it shouldn't be a problem to find one that fits.
Another option I'd use is to keep Iggwilv and don't even bother to include her in the FR in any way.
This might be a clue to the PCs on how important the whole mess is; not only for greyhawk, the FR or whatever setting is used, but for the whole multiverse.
Demogorgon as a King of demons would be a thread to every material plane and so it might make perfect sense that an ancient sorceress like Iggwilv that has close ties to demons might take actions, no matter in which world.
When your players actually know Iggwilv from GH campaigns (or somewhere else), it could be really interesting for them.
I'd keep her and would choose the path of foreshadowing too, to prevent the players from thinking that the DM was just too lazy to change her for an FR-character.
When your players actually know Iggwilv from GH campaigns (or somewhere else), it could be really interesting for them.
I'd keep her and would choose the path of foreshadowing too, to prevent the players from thinking that the DM was just too lazy to change her for an FR-character.
That's really what I was trying to do. My players are old enough to know about Iggwilv, but not devious enough to read the adventures. I wanted to foreshadow her to inspire fear and dread, but at the same time keep them from thinking I was a lazy sack. I appreciate all the tips, thanks guys!
My players are old enough to know about Iggwilv, but not devious enough to read the adventures. I wanted to foreshadow her to inspire fear and dread, but at the same time keep them from thinking I was a lazy sack. I appreciate all the tips, thanks guys!
What I've done is represent some -- but not all -- of the players' successful Knowledge (the planes) checks regarding demons as having come from a fragment of the Demonomicon that the character came across at some point. No idea if it'll work, but at least I've name-checked her on our group's wiki. (Some of the players are old enough to recognize her name, some aren't.)
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My players are old enough to know about Iggwilv, but not devious enough to read the adventures. I wanted to foreshadow her to inspire fear and dread, but at the same time keep them from thinking I was a lazy sack. I appreciate all the tips, thanks guys!What I've done is represent some -- but not all -- of the players' successful Knowledge (the planes) checks regarding demons as having come from a fragment of the Demonomicon that the character came across at some point. No idea if it'll work, but at least I've name-checked her on our group's wiki. (Some of the players are old enough to recognize her name, some aren't.)
I think that it would be really cool if the players found in a library or some book that references the Demonomicon of Iggwilv.Maybe its another clue left behind by Malcanthet.Even better, on a thread somewhere here it mentioned that Iggwilv's cloak Fiend's Embrace (created by Steve Greer in a Dungeon adventure of the same name) was meant to be left behind in one of the adventures and then give subtle clues through whispers or mentaly imparted on the wear of said item. Its also mentioned that this cloak is seeking to go back to Iggwilv, just like the One Ring is trying to get back to the dark lord Sauron. So this could be a really cool way of foreshadowing Iggwilv to the PC's.
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this could be a really cool way of foreshadowing Iggwilv to the PC's.I fail to see why Iggwilv needs to be "foreshadowed" or introduced in any fashion. IIRC, she was mentioned in no respect in the AP up to the point that Charon sends the PCs to meet her. Her existence and purpose in the AP is entirely world independent.
Is the OP asking how to foreshadow her involvement in the AP generally? It is unnecessary to "bring her into" any specific world because she only appears in the Abyss. It's not like she comes to Farshore or Sassarine and everyone recognizes her because of her famous past deeds around Oerth that are unknown in Toril.
If the desire is to foreshadow her generally that's one thing, but otherwise the answer to the OP is "don't worry".
Looking to the former, if you're going to foreshadow her, then you need to present her within the context of her role in the AP. Legends or rumors or whatever need to be tied to a powerful witch/demon/queen/sorceress (stories vary) who has defeated demons, played the power behind the throne, brokered and broken alliances between demon lords and so forth.
IMHO,
Rez
I agree that the OP dosnt NEED to foreshadow Iggwilv.But I think I understand were he's coming from.If I was running the STAP in the Realms I think I would feel weird about Iggwilv showing up even if its in the abyss. Really I think she was placed there because of her Greyhawk heritage and connection to the Demonomicon articles. In a way if your playing a realms game I could see it messing with your suspesnion of disbelief.So foreshadowing her upcoming presence might not be a bad way to go.
No, I don't NEED to, but I'd like to. I'm anticipating playing post-
STAP and I like the idea of Iggwilv taking control of the Isle of Dread. So, while she doesn't ever need to be in the Realms, she's still going to affect the Realms and I would like to have some sort of legitimate reason for that so that my players' suspension of disbelief isn't affected.
Narfell was an obvious choice for me, and I think Iggwilv could have easily made contact with and corrupted the wizards of Narfell. All it would have taken was dropping the Demonomicon in the right (i.e. wrong) hands and letting them figure it out for themselves. I also really like the Fiend's Embrace adventure and I would like to try to do something with that.
I could imagine Iggwilv as having had some sort of connections with the demon-summoning rulers of the fallen ancient kingdom of Narfell. (If you want to completely change her background and tweak the realms to fit her in, ancient Narfell could become the kingdom which she once ruled.)
The PCs could at some point run into a supporting villain/henchman with ranks in the Forgotten Realms 'Nar Demonbinder' Prestige Class (See Unapproachable East 3.5 FR product) and some old manuscripts salvaged from Narfell, that mention or were written by Iggwilv.Edit:
According to 3.5 sources Narfell fell 160 years before the Dale Reckoning (DR) began. See Lost Empires of Faerun 3.5 FR product for some background on Narfell that goes beyond the summary in the 3.0 FR Campaign Setting.
Perfect! Thanks mate!