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A wizard, a paladin, a ranger and a bard? I almost feel sorry for the villains. That's a NASTY combo. Three of your party members can heal, 2 can buff, 2 have full BAB, 2 have 6+int skill points per level, saving throws are likely to be high across the board, and one is a wizard. About all you could do to make it more formidable is swap the bard for a druid. That would be REALLY nasty.
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A wizard, a paladin, a ranger and a bard? I almost feel sorry for the villains. That's a NASTY combo. Three of your party members can heal, 2 can buff, 2 have full BAB, 2 have 6+int skill points per level, saving throws are likely to be high across the board, and one is a wizard. About all you could do to make it more formidable is swap the bard for a druid. That would be REALLY nasty.
First level will be a bit tough without healing spells I imagine, but once the party hits around 4th level or so, they will be quite formidable.
Meh... just let the Paladin and Ranger soak it.
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A wizard, a paladin, a ranger and a bard? I almost feel sorry for the villains. That's a NASTY combo. Three of your party members can heal, 2 can buff, 2 have full BAB, 2 have 6+int skill points per level, saving throws are likely to be high across the board, and one is a wizard. About all you could do to make it more formidable is swap the bard for a druid. That would be REALLY nasty.First level will be a bit tough without healing spells I imagine, but once the party hits around 4th level or so, they will be quite formidable.
Very true, but they'll spend a lot more time above 4th level than below it. Those first 5 or so levels are pretty touch & go in any game unless your party consists of a cleric, a crusader, a paladin, and a druid.
First level will be a bit tough without healing spells I imagine, but once the party hits around 4th level or so, they will be quite formidable.
At 2nd level, they can afford partially charged wands of cure light wounds and the bard gains access to 1st level spells (cure light wounds is on the bard list). Three out of the four can use wands of cure light wounds without making a Use Magic Device check (bard, paladin, ranger)...
Healing will probably not be an issue even before 4th level.
Trapfinding might be an issue, eventually. However, it's probably not critical.
First level will be a bit tough without healing spells I imagine, but once the party hits around 4th level or so, they will be quite formidable.At 2nd level, they can afford partially charged wands of cure light wounds and the bard gains access to 1st level spells (cure light wounds is on the bard list). Three out of the four can use wands of cure light wounds without making a Use Magic Device check (bard, paladin, ranger)...
Healing will probably not be an issue even before 4th level.
Trapfinding might be an issue, eventually. However, it's probably not critical.
I am of the view that no cleric = TPK waiting to happen.
Wands of clw and potions are fine for between combat but in the heat of battle when your blood is on the floor who ya gonna call?
The Cleric!
Formidable combo? Paladin, Ranger, Wizard, Bard? nup- still, fun while it lasts- just keep out of tough battles.
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At 2nd level, they can afford partially charged wands of cure light wounds and the bard gains access to 1st level spells (cure light wounds is on the bard list). Three out of the four can use wands of cure light wounds without making a Use Magic Device check (bard, paladin, ranger)...
My experience with 2 Adventure Paths has been that they keep the players very poor and below the recommended amount of treasure for the level.
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We're almost done with Rise of the Runelords and we've got treasure to spar. But then again, our DM is letting us do side quests and other things.
I think too many people run the 3 APs that exist too much "by the book" and not enough allowing the character to roleplay. A rogue that doesn't sneak and thief the moment he gets into town, isn't roleplaying very well IMHO.
Wands of clw and potions are fine for between combat but in the heat of battle when your blood is on the floor who ya gonna call?
The Cleric!
Only if you consider the cleric to be a heal-bot. In this party, the bard will probably be the one best suited to emergency healing in combat (via a wand or spell).
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Only if you consider the cleric to be a heal-bot. In this party, the bard will probably be the one best suited to emergency healing in combat (via a wand or spell).Wands of clw and potions are fine for between combat but in the heat of battle when your blood is on the floor who ya gonna call?
The Cleric!
True. Bards can use healing spells all the way up to mass cure moderate. The paladin's got lay on hands.
But that's not the point, here. This particular mix of classes has the extraordinary ability to dictate the terms of more combats than the last mix did. You have two skill-users, which means more stealth. That one of those two is a dwarven ranger with access to all of the wonderful ranger archery spells and a loaded crossbow is just a bonus. Besides, in most combats, the point is going to be lining up the paladin and wizard to strike some really telling blows. A well-built, fairly normal paladin is going to have divine might, and if you use divine might, the divine sacrifice spell, and a smite, you can hit with an incredible amount of force as a paladin. I know. I've done it in play. Once the paladin opens the fight with a bell-ringing first attack, whatever foe she's facing is going to find her hard to ignore. That's when the wizard and ranger enter the equation.
My experience with 2 Adventure Paths has been that they keep the players very poor and below the recommended amount of treasure for the level.
This is why when I'm planning tactics as a player, I usually don't even figure magical equipment into the equation. You never know when a rust monster, untimely capture, or Mordenkainen's disjunction spell will ruin your day. Feats, spells, class abilities, mundane equipment and the environment, yes. Magic items, no.
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At 2nd level, they can afford partially charged wands of cure light wounds and the bard gains access to 1st level spells (cure light wounds is on the bard list). Three out of the four can use wands of cure light wounds without making a Use Magic Device check (bard, paladin, ranger)...
My experience with 2 Adventure Paths has been that they keep the players very poor and below the recommended amount of treasure for the level.
So far in just a brief glance I saw several thousand gold being offered to the PCs. They should not be pleading poverty in this one.
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I agree with Timespike. Finding secret doors and loot seems to be a bigger concern.Forget healing, what about trapfinding?What about trapfinding? It's an urban campaign; most of the action will be taking place in city streets.
Well then lets hope anyone playing the dwarf puts a lot of points in spot and search.
As for traps.. oh well.
Are any of you that are worried about these things going to actually use the Iconics as PCs? :P
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This is why when I'm planning tactics as a player, I usually don't even figure magical equipment into the equation. You never know when a rust monster, untimely capture, or Mordenkainen's disjunction spell will ruin your day. Feats, spells, class abilities, mundane equipment and the environment, yes. Magic items, no.
Tactics are good and I agree should not always involve equipment. Unfortunately when the adventure has a creature that can only be fully damage by magical weapons and the party can't afford one or the one they have does 1d2 damage, it makes it difficult for any tactics to work.
Also, CR's are chosen assuming characters have standard wealth by level.
Notoriously, the iconics would have trouble with the adventure they're printed in. I recall someone ran Seoni et al. as written against a monster in RotRL #5 and it was pretty hopeless. Maybe their alternative role as handy NPCs leads to a feeling that they should only have NPC level resources. But it makes them very iffy PCs.
This is true across many systems. I remember how baffled we were by the pregen characters in Shadowrun 1st Edition, who were *much* weaker than anything you'd make yourself. (And one of them was literally dead on arrival: the game had a rule that too much cyberware would kill you, and well, he was dead.)
I'd never play an iconic, partly because I like to make my own characters, and partly because it's harder to learn to use someone else's picked-out abilities well. I have enough trouble with ones I pick out myself. But for the sake of new players I think the iconics should be usable as PCs, singly or as a group, and have a reasonable chance with the AP.
Mary
(And one of them was literally dead on arrival: the game had a rule that too much cyberware would kill you, and well, he was dead.)
Now that sounds like a serious role-playing challenge. Perhaps one could get 20 minutes of fun out of the "Weekend at Bernie's" bit?
This group can't cast freedom of movement until 10th level (when the bard can cast it 1/day). They can't cast death ward until 14th level (and that's if the paladin gets up to 18 wisdom...seems unlikely).
Regardless of how much healing you have, the lack of those 2 spells could be a major problem.
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This is why when I'm planning tactics as a player, I usually don't even figure magical equipment into the equation. You never know when a rust monster, untimely capture, or Mordenkainen's disjunction spell will ruin your day. Feats, spells, class abilities, mundane equipment and the environment, yes. Magic items, no.Tactics are good and I agree should not always involve equipment. Unfortunately when the adventure has a creature that can only be fully damage by magical weapons and the party can't afford one or the one they have does 1d2 damage, it makes it difficult for any tactics to work.
Also, CR's are chosen assuming characters have standard wealth by level.
I'm used to facing full-level encounters with no magic items from a VERY hard and gritty campaign I played at the beginning of 3e. Besides, the magic weapon spell works fine for getting through DR.