So, occasionally I read through sections of Worlds&Monsters at my local hobby shop. I started reading up on the Dragons recently and finished.
I was horrified at, yet, another sacred cow slaughtered. They are taking away two of the metallics and replaced with two others. Just because the colors between three of them were...confusing? (brass, bronze, and copper)
Apparently, the geniuses at WotC couldn't tell the difference and they assume we couldn't either. They asked questions about the metallic dragons and asked if you can guess which ones were which metallic dragon. Funny thing is, I got them all right. They then said I had uber-dragon skills if I managed to do so.
What?
If anyone uses dragons a lot in their games, this comes naturally to them. Someone who doesn't use dragons a lot will get these wrong and not because it's confusing but because they don't use dragons a lot in their games. I'm sure some get the Chromatics mixed up too...especially the damned green dragon. I don't know how many times I've heard if their breath weapon is chlorine gas or acidic gas? (damn fluff changes to new editions...THAT'S where D&D becomes confusing...)
This sort of logic astounds me. This just goes back to my belief that, for the sake of change and slaughtering of sacred cows, we make the game..."simplified". I wonder how many dragon-centric campaigns are shattered now because two dragons suddenly...disappear...until a 4E Draconomicon book comes along to restore them again? (maybe)
What makes it worse is the two dragons that replaced the omitted ones are just as color-confusing---adamantine and iron...
What?
So, you replace two color-confusing metallic dragons with yet two more color-confusing metallics? They say it was hard to differentiate between brass, copper, and bronze yet isn't it now going to be just as "difficult" to differentiate between an adamantine, silver, and iron dragon?
I haven't read through the entire book. Very few things I like. I do like, for example, that some aberrations hail from the Far Realm and that the Far Realm is going to get more coverage (I wish it had more coverage in 3E...so much for that now). Helps me make sense on the origins of at least half the aberrations in D&D.
Giants are another thing I like that they are going to implement. I would like to see how that plays out in 4E, maybe snatch something for my 3e games.
I hate what they're doing to my favorite fiends, yugoloths.
And, of course, I hate the whole "PCs must kill angels so we'll make angels want to fight PCs more often" deal.
What do you guys think of the major overhaul of fluff changes to the game from this book?
copper, bronze, brass... kinda like gold; keep copper.
However, I would have made them Adamantine and Mithral, as those are more important DnD metals. Iron's kinda blah, but whatever.
The other metals will be back in supplements, if you care enough.
I like the worlds and monsters book. I prefer the pictures of goblins and some other monsters (esp. beholders) from 3.5, but otherwise I'm fine with it.
I couldn't tell the difference between brass, copper, and bronze, not at all. At the same time, dragons have not ever figured prominently in any of the campaigns I've ever played or run throughout the entirety of my D&D playing since, what, 1980.
Nor do they seem to figure prominently in modules--but that's just my off-the-cuff impression.
WotC could boil the selection of dragons down to just red and gold for all I care...
To each their own.
I never understood the need for so many dragons but having all of them in the MM doesn't really bother me at all.
My feeling: meh.
What makes it worse is the two dragons that replaced the omitted ones are just as color-confusing---adamantine and iron...
What?
So, you replace two color-confusing metallic dragons with yet two more color-confusing metallics? They say it was hard to differentiate between brass, copper, and bronze yet isn't it now going to be just as "difficult" to differentiate between an adamantine, silver, and iron dragon?
I'm holding out for tin dragons... snicker!
I picture adamantine as looking like silver.
But lets add in tin and nickel....
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I vote that we make a dragon for every real and invented metal, as well as every possible color. And let's throw in the gemstone dragons again, with everything crystalline falling under their banner. Then we can release five books for each 'type', for a total of fifteen books for all the monster-hoarding players.
I vote that we make a dragon for every real and invented metal, as well as every possible color. And let's throw in the gemstone dragons again, with everything crystalline falling under their banner. Then we can release five books for each 'type', for a total of fifteen books for all the monster-hoarding players.
Gemstone dragons! Yes! I'd totally forgotten about them! Ha! Wild.
Munchkin's got a plutonium dragon.
In general I liked the preview books, and mostly thought the flavor changes were positive.
However, they were overpriced, especially since the print and paper quality were quite poor. I hope they have the sense to print the 4E corebooks using better materials...
Munchkin's got a plutonium dragon.
Leather dragon, clay dragon, mica dragon, americanium dragon, plaid dragon, calico dragon, rainbow dragon, dewdrop dragon, moss dragon, kelp dragon, sand dragon, bark dragon, parchment dragon, coconut shell fiber dragon....
I'm keeping all the fluff changes I like and dumping all the fluff changes I don't like. I have no doubt I'll be able to figure out how to make Copper and Brass Dragons if thats what I need for my game. I don't mind the idea of Adamantite Dragons but Iron strikes me as simply stupid and their going to have to have to really sell that one to me. Even then I might not change - Dragons, both good and evil figure heavily in my home brew.
I've always been partial to the Einsteinium dragon - you've got two rounds to beat it before its halflife expires and it disappears, since it was created by a mad wizard calling himself a "Theoretical Materials Alchemist."
Seriously though, I did enjoy the preview books but I just read them at Barnes and Noble. I love the changes being made to giants, since I've found 3e giants to never be... well... giant. 10 or 15 feet tall just isn't what I think of when I hear the word "giant." I'm liking these truly massive and towering elemental giants they're going to feature.
In general I liked the preview books, and mostly thought the flavor changes were positive.
I found the changes pure sacrilege. There was a way to keep the flavor changes and still make it "cool". They just chose not to. It doesn't make sense to me why, though. Wouldn't a company want to keep as many older customers while attracting tons of the new ones?
It dawned on me when I ponder that, that it was obvious that WotC simply wanted nothing to do with "us" anymore. There's a giant market of WoW players to entice out there, millions more than those who play 1E-3E D&D...
Sad for someone like me and so many others to get dumped on like this. Normally, the flavor changes wouldn't affect me since I run a Forgotten Realms game. But instead of keeping those things as "core", they got the nerve to stick "core" flavor into the Forgotten Realms. Where it doesn't belong. And now the Realms is dead.
Blasphemy!!! They won't leave anything alone will they? I want the bronze back. I didn't really care about the other two, but I didn't want them axed. I could ID them all it's not that hard. It's not all about their color. They do look different, or has WotC mage them all look the same to make things simpler?
I wish they would have left the Iron out. I loved the Ferrous dragons. I don't want them rubbing elbows with the good dragons. They're lawful!! and had such a cool story not to forget their hierarchy.
Fizz
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Munchkin's got a plutonium dragon.
I like the one in the Munchkin Monster Manual, where it gives the stats for all the age groups.
As it gets older, it gets smaller and weaker.
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So, you replace two color-confusing metallic dragons with yet two more color-confusing metallics? They say it was hard to differentiate between brass, copper, and bronze yet isn't it now going to be just as "difficult" to differentiate between an adamantine, silver, and iron dragon?
That goes along with "this rule is so confusing, so let's ditch it (not to mention we're adding two new rules over her just as confusing)".
And "math is bad, down with math as you know it (but add a bundle of math-related concepts in different parts of the game)".
It's all part of the thing my group laughingly calls "The 4E Shuffle".
-DM Jeff